grudlian.

Discussing Smokey Robinson and the Miracles

I feel like I should have remembered that but once the Japanese version finally got a US release around 2003, I never needed to go back to the Raymond Burr version. There are a few really good lists like the BFI Sight and Sound, Cahiers du Cinema that include US films alongside foreign films (and have a lot of overlap). If you want a really daunting task, try 1001 Movies To See Before You Die or They Shoot Pictures Don't They. I don't think any of these lists have the really weird rules to include or exclude certain movies that AFI has either.

1. I think you mean Raymond Burr version of Godzilla unless the is a Steve Martin version I don't know about. If there is a Steve Martin version, I definitely want to see that. 2. I'm sure I've complained about it before but I agree that I wish non American films were represented. I get why the AFI limited it to American films but there is a literal world of cinema. For a number of these movies, I can point to a foreign equivalent that is debatably as good. And if we needed to include an influential, giant monster/kaiju movie, Godzilla over King Kong all day every day.

Even though the spider sequence is missing, a handful of pictures exist (on mobile so, sorry, not going to look for them). These pictures and a description of the scene were used by Peter Jackson to make a recreation of the scene when he remade King Kong. Here is his version of what he believed the scene might have been:

There's probably some full length, Shoah like director's cut but the studios demanded a sleek, 110 minute commercial version.

Did you watch the free version on youtube? It looks like the unedited, full length movie but I don't want to get halfway through then it mess up.

Oh my gosh! The background is grey again! Thank you thank you thank you!

I only knew Ann Miller from Mulholland Dr. I knew she was a dancer but it was weird seeing her 40 year younger heyday.

Superman is truly something else. Reeves performance as Superman/Clark Kent is so good. There's the scene in one of the movies (not sure which one) where you see him switch between the personas as he's deciding to reveal his identity to Lois and you see the physicality of it all. You can see why friends and coworkers don't figure out that Clark Kent is just Superman in glasses. But more than that, I really do get lost in believing he can fly. I know the tagline is "You will believe a man can fly" but I really do believe it. I don't see the wires and the fan blowing his cape. I see Superman. Maybe it's just a holdover from seeing it as a kid but I'm still in awe of those flying scenes.

If I've come across as thinking you think documentaries are not as good as narrative movies, that's my bad. I don't think you think that at all. Sorry. I couldn't remember what all arguments you had brought up. AFI can obviously make whatever rules they want for their own list. I understand limiting it to US films since it's an American institute. They can have movies I don't agree with because opinions are subjective. I think their rules lead to a worse list though. Most of us here lamented Swing Time being chosen over Top Hat (just as an example). Had the AFI not added a stipulation that movies needed to be award winners, maybe Top Hat would have been chosen (or not, idk). It just seems weird to me to compile a list of the best 100 movies then add a rule that serves no purpose but to exclude movies. If the list was "100 years...100 narrative films", no problem. To continue your tree comparison, it's like "Top 100 trees. NO CONIFERS!" seems like it's not the top 100 trees then.

My original post here is kind of catty and not what I want this discussion to be. So, I'm deleting it.

If In Cold Blood doesn't count, what about The Diary Of Anne Frank? I don't know if important lists include it but certainly it's important enough to consider a seminal work of the 20th century. But I think you're kind of splitting hairs on non-fiction versus biography. Setting aside Hoop Dreams, something like For All Mankind, Harland County USA, Titticut Follies, and so forth aren't biographies either but about much larger events, their time and place, cultural shifts that are relevant today. I'd argue a lot of documentaries are "written" as much as any narrative film. Since Hoop Dreams is the movie we're mostly discussing, it's five years cut into 3 hours. You could tell a lot of different stories about five years of anyone's life. The directors chose these stories to highlight. I just think it's a weird limitation to make a canon of films and say "Well, this kind doesn't belong". But I also take issue with a lot of the AFI's arbitrary rules like winning an award when we know a ton of movies don't start building their reputation until well after its been out and rediscovered.

My problem with Infinity War in so far as being a representation of the entire genre is that it's not a complete movie. You don't need to see every MCU movie to get it but you can't come in blind either. It doesn't finish its story either. It's like saying the best play is Act IV of MacBeth. You're right. It's early and who knows where superhero movies will even be in 20 years. They are huge now but their lasting impact may end up being cinematic universes and nothing else.

Would anyone think Black Panther is a possible contender? I know we're only five months removed from its release. So, long term cultural impact is impossible to measure. In my mind, the MCU is most representative of superhero as a genre and Black Panther is the best of the MCU, therefore... Black Panther has a defined villain with a story arc and real motive outside of steal money which puts it above almost every MCU movie automatically. I think the depth of the story is a strong point that it's largely discussing serious social issues that are certainly important to today's culture but the history of the US and world in regards to addressing institutionalized racism. The Dark Knight is fine but it's really 80% Heath Ledger's performance then a bunch of scenes with me going "Where's Poochie Joker?" It took several times seeing it to get that way but that's kind of all I want to see from it anymore.

I think this will end up being a thing we agree to disagree on. I think the average best books of the 20th century lists include In Cold Blood. So, there's precedence in other media to include true stories alongside fiction in canonical lists. I think saying that documentaries shouldn't count because they don't light scenes or write dialogue is like saying animation doesn't count because you aren't seeing the actors perform or the isn't proper cinematography. Movies are more than just how they are written and lit and staged. It's the final product. If they wanted to include one of Stan Brakhage's painted films (supposing they met their feature length requirement), I'd be fine with it too. You're right that docs and narrative films are kind of apples to oranges but isn't Star Wars and Duck Soup and Citizen Kane apples and oranges too? Can you truly call Citizen Kane the best movie if it doesn't have a single lightsaber fight? But that's kind of getting to a larger problem I have with lists and ranking things in general.

I remember it ending ambiguously as well. Red gets on the bus, gives his monologue about not putting up roadblocks and hope as I recall. The movie just puts that beach reunion under the monologue. I'm curious now what Stephen King pictured since you can't really do that with a book unless he put some parenthetical note in the text (by the way, Red and Andy meet again) I think documentaries deserve on the list of they are good enough. A movie is a movie is a movie. If the AFI says it's the top 100 movies, I'd like their top 100 movies not necessarily top 100*

Can I vote to watch Crank 2 again?

The 10th is good with me. I'm fine with skipping Green Lantern for all the same reasons you listed. And especially because I've never seen Back Up Plan which I'm also looking forward to seeing. But I'm down for whatever.

Didn't they change Oscar voting rules because of Hoop Dreams not being nominated? Most voters didn't even watch it as I recall. The DVD has some feature about the behind the scenes voting for it. Something about people voting to turn it off after only a few minutes. Regardless, Hoop Dreams would, without question, make my top 100 and probably top 10 all time. It's such a monumental film and the AFI list doesn't have any documentaries unless I'm forgetting one.

Yeah. That buzz can be an indicator. I was pulling for Stallone but, if Sam Elliott wasn't nominated, I do think Rylance was the right choice.

I don't follow Oscar speculation but I thought the was no way Stallone was getting the win. I was shocked he even got nominated.

For that year, I'd give the best supporting actor award to Sam Elliott for Grandma. It's maybe not my favorite scene but that movie getting ignored completely only makes me love it more.

Straight white dudes who hate women being in Ghostbusters.

Our main character is wrongfully imprisoned for decades. I mean, the entire premise of the movie is challenging even if he does escape and makes the best of his situation. Andy is beaten, raped, put in solitary confinement, threatened by guards, kept in prison after a corrupt warden had a witness murdered in cold blood to keep wrongfully imprisoned man for profit (so, functionally literal slavery). It's a movie that's nothing but challenges for Andy. One of the film's greatest abilities is making it feel good despite what's happening to Andy. Plus, what happens to other people like Red who become broken in prison and Brooks who felt he needed to kill himself because he couldn't manage life outside. I admit that when I watch Shawshank it does feel like a "feel good" movie but it's a horrific story.

I listen to Good Christian Fun podcast and they covered Spotlight this week with Film Crit Hulk. It's not indicative of a typical episode but it's pretty interesting. Film Crit Hulk grew up Catholic in Boston and met Cardinal Law. So, it's interesting hearing his perspective.