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Episode 167 — S.H.A.R.P.


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#1 July Diaz

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:27 PM

Today Andrew Ti & Javi Grillo-Marxuach discuss the poor fashion choices of those affiliated with Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice aka S.H.A.R.P. Be original and keep leaving us messages by calling (323) 389-RACE.

#2 .....

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:56 PM

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#3 Hyde Parker

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:43 AM

The Swastika was a semi-common symbol in European iconography before the twentieth century, as well.

#4 Shariq Torres

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:40 AM

View PostHyde Parker, on 06 June 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

The Swastika was a semi-common symbol in European iconography before the twentieth century, as well.



And then times changed, and the swastika now means something different. If you want to go return to a time when the swastika wasn't associated with one of the worst genocides on the European continent, then build a time machine.

#5 Shariq Torres

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:51 AM

View PostJoshie, on 05 June 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

The idea that racists ruin things and you can't rehabilitate shit is directly contradictory to Andrew's stated thoughts in the past about reclamation being "fine."

Telling Buddhists they can't attempt to reclaim their symbols because white people took them and "ruined" them for a decade is imperialist, to say the least. It's privileging Western ideas (even flash-in-the-pan failures like fascism) as the ones that Change The World and have priority over centuries of the use of an icon in strains of Eastern thought.



Dude, if you live in the West, the the swastika is a symbol of death and hate. if you want go to a place where the swastika means something else, you get your ass out and move there so the the larger culture is in step with what you're doing. I really like dragons, but since I was born in the West, the symbol of a dragon is a symbol of evil. If I was born in Southeast Asia, the symbol of a dragon would be seen as good luck. You see how that works, Joshie? One symbol with two wildly different meanings.

And it is a sort of cultural imperialism coming from a small group of skinheads who -- having been raised inside and living inside of Western culture -- try to dictate how other people should react to seeing a symbol that Western culture has associated with death and destruction for decades. Just S.H.A.R.P. exists, doesn't negate the millions of deaths and pain that swastika caused.

As far as Buddhist "reclaiming" the symbol, there is nothing to reclaim if you are a part of or living inside of a culture that has centuries of religious meaning behind the symbol. But if you're a Buddhist living in Portland and are pissed that you can't hang a swastika on your front porch, the only way to solve that is to relocate to Cambodia. Because there is nothing you do that going to change or nullify all of the death/destruction associated with the symbol in the West.

#6 Hyde Parker

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:02 PM

Quote

I really like dragons, but since I was born in the West, the symbol of a dragon is a symbol of evil.

What if you were born in Wales?

#7 Shariq Torres

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:08 PM

View PostHyde Parker, on 06 June 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

What if you were born in Wales?


No cares about people born in Wales. I'll send you the memo if you haven't already received it.

#8 Kevin Irmiter

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:37 PM

I had a friend in college who was born in India, and he said in some of his baby pictures he has a swastika on his head. As in, they shaved his hair and left just a swastika on top.

Yes, it is unfortunate that the swastika has become so strongly associated with evil. It especially sucks for people from cultures that have been using the symbol with a totally different meaning for centuries. I don't think Andrew was even saying it's wrong to try and reclaim things, just that you have to be realistic about it. And you have to take responsibility for the way something will look to other people. Even if you have nonracist intentions, you know that wearing or saying certain things is going to make you look like a racist. So you either have to avoid doing it, or accept the fact that you will be constantly struggling to make people understand your real intentions.

There's also the question of whether something is worth reclaiming. The Swastika, you could definitely make a case for. But the racist skinhead look is one tiny little niche that would probably have gone out of style almost immediately if not for the neo-nazis who made it into "their look." I don't understand why anyone would WANT to fight to reclaim it, especially when you could so easily take the look and put small variations on it to make yourself less racist-looking.

#9 Cracktivity

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:07 PM

View PostShariq Torres, on 06 June 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:


And it is a sort of cultural imperialism coming from a small group of skinheads who -- having been raised inside and living inside of Western culture -- try to dictate how other people should react to seeing a symbol that Western culture has associated with death and destruction for decades. Just S.H.A.R.P. exists, doesn't negate the millions of deaths and pain that swastika caused.



I don't think SHARP uses swastikas, that was an analogy the guest brought up--a good one too: even though skinheads were originally 60s British kids who were really into Jamaican music, the style got hijacked by racists. Now if I, or anyone else, sees a dude with a shaved head and combat boots, we're going to have to assume they're neo-Nazi.

#10 jay_seconds

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:31 PM

Skinhead = late 60s to now
Sharps= 1980s to now

Most skins dress pretty nice with Fred Perry and Ben Sherman shit, amongst other overtly expensive brands.

You are mistaking dudes that are referred to as "boneheads", but skinheads have a wide variety of beliefs and backgrounds.

Skinhead scene in the U.S. Has skins of every race, especially a large Latino population.

#11 Shariq Torres

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 04:39 AM

View Postjay_seconds, on 06 June 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Skinhead = late 60s to now
Sharps= 1980s to now

Most skins dress pretty nice with Fred Perry and Ben Sherman shit, amongst other overtly expensive brands.

You are mistaking dudes that are referred to as "boneheads", but skinheads have a wide variety of beliefs and backgrounds.

Skinhead scene in the U.S. Has skins of every race, especially a large Latino population.


No, we're referring to them as skinheads. Whatever in-group dynamics at play that makes Y skinhead want to look down on X skinhead is really not relevant. What is relevant is that skinheads want to dictate to other people how they should react, especially when they are heavily associated with hate groups. I don't have time to suss out whether you are a "bonehead" or a "skinhead" or a "crackhead" because if I make a mistake, I will end up getting hurt. My physical body is at danger, and I'm not going to extend political correctness to people who dress like Neo-Nazis.

#12 jay_seconds

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:47 AM

Most skinheads are not racist and have a strong dislike for Neo-Nazis. I would distance myself from any racists as well. In the grand scope, most skinheads are into boring shit like spinning old reggae records and drinking beer and pretending they are English. Racist skins have been causing havoc in the states in the 80s so im not going to change any minds. The skinhead scene is world wide and huge in Japan and Europe. In America, one of the most popular skinhead bands, The Templars from NYC, features two African American skins who have been involved in the scene since the early 90s. In summation, its a complex scene where stereotypes and rumors run rampant. Many skinheads are assholes anyway, so it all evens out, I guess.

#13 weegee91

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:23 PM

Skinheads started in Jamaica then it moved to England and Aryans(boneheads) stole the fashion, but it represents the working class... it's not about being fashionable. I am not a skinhead myself, but many of my friends are... we listen to ska, reggae, soul, rocksteady, punk(which is more of a modern skinhead thing), and non racist oi music. Skinhead has nothing to do with race... the original skinheads listened to and played reggae and ska, our hearts and heads are in the right place because anyone can be a skinhead and even though I am not one I have met some amazing skins who I consider to be very close friends, and they are from multiple races.

OI FROM CALIFORNIA, FUCK BONEHEADS!

#14 Cracktivity

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 04:56 PM

Groups, in general, racist or not, where people get together and all dress the same way and cut their hair the same way are basically idiots. And they OBVOIOUSLY have fascist tendencies. Society doesn't offer you a chance to conform enough? Join a group where the hivemind polices your outfit and whatnot. It's small minded, cultish behavior.