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Episode 109 - FACE OFF: LIVE!

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Re the suggested incest: Gina Gershon does say "He was my brother too" after Pollux was killed, but we're not meant to take that literally.

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Re the suggested incest: Gina Gershon does say "He was my brother too" after Pollux was killed, but we're not meant to take that literally.

 

I noticed that too but she directly says the bald guy is her brother and then Sean Archer calls her his sister and he wouldn't have done that if they weren't actually related. Sean Archer don't give a shit about being so close you are practically siblings.

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in Greek mythology Castor and Pollux were twin brothers (Gemini in Roman mythology). one was mortal and one was half god. they were also the brothers of Helen of Troy. pretty clever screenwriters! maybe you should've spent less time proving you read the Illiad and more time thinking of something better than "throat microchip"

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and one more thing about the hygiene in this movie.... did you notice that when they were doing the operation, one of the most advanced operations ever performed, there were 4 or 5 shots of travoltas hair being restyled to look like cages. the bandages weren't even on properly ... imagine that conversation in the operation room ... "ok, now that i have loosely placed these bandages over the freshly transplanted face i will now move aside and allow my hairdresser to come in to colour and style the hair"

 

i know they were in a hurry but ...

 

 

nl8yfp.jpg

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ohhh .. and maybe some of the fat they pumped back into cage somehow contained some nic cage "Essence" and that would explain the ending that was cut????

 

Holy Shit, FirstTimeCaller! I think you just cracked the code!

 

I'm sending a cyber, face-waterfall your way!

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One nerdy omission: the character names for Castor and his brother Pollux are taken from Greek mythology. If I'm reading this right, it sounds like they were twin warriors and champion boxers who eventually pissed off Zeus so much that he condemned each to spend eternity alternating between Mt. Olympus and Hades with the other in the opposite place so the two of them were never again together.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_and_Pollux

 

The screenwriter even underlined the Greek-mythology connection by giving them both the last name Troy. I'm not sure why they did this, though. It might have made more sense to name the leads Castor and Pollux since they're two sides of the same metaphorical coin. I don't know. Thoughts, guys?

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There are myriad plot holes in this film, but there's one that always bugged me...

 

Gina Gershon's character, who we find out had at least a sexual relationship with Troy, really doesn't bat an eyelid when Troy - a cold blooded, psychopathic criminal with a tongue sucking fetish - does a 360 degree turn from being the aforementioned psycho to a sympathetic and contrite man. Indeed, the only time she thinks something is up is when Archer as Troy comments on Troy's clothes, and even then that's quickly forgotten about. And I always found it weird that film asks us to sympathize with her when she's killed by Troy as Archer. Fuck her; she was fraternizing with a next level, cuckoo bananas killer.

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and one more thing about the hygiene in this movie.... did you notice that when they were doing the operation, one of the most advanced operations ever performed, there were 4 or 5 shots of travoltas hair being restyled to look like cages. the bandages weren't even on properly ... imagine that conversation in the operation room ... "ok, now that i have loosely placed these bandages over the freshly transplanted face i will now move aside and allow my hairdresser to come in to colour and style the hair"

 

i know they were in a hurry but ...

 

 

nl8yfp.jpg

 

I said/posted this before (In the mini-episode thread)... I had to shave my entire leg before a knee operation/surgery I had... I don't know exactly why but hair can't get inside your skin/body because of infection or something...

 

Now think of all the leftover hair you get after a trip to the barbershop. No wonder his face itches, he has a coat of leftover hair sandwiched between his new face and his muscles #nailedit

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Omissions:

 

This movie basically predicted 9/11.

 

When Castor Troy gets to Sean Archer's home and opens Sean Archer's diary look at the dates:

 

 

SEAN ARCHER IS DESCRIBING HIS SORROW ON 9/11!!!

 

 

 

I'm confused wasn't that Sean's Wife / Eve's diary???

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Holy Shit, FirstTimeCaller! I think you just cracked the code!

 

I'm sending a cyber, face-waterfall your way!

Christ, it's like this movie would be more logical if it was a body (or brain) switching movie. Like a 'Freaky Friday Face/Off'?

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My first question when i first saw this way back was exactly about the intimacy. I know I would recognize not only my husband's different junk, but probably also the style of love making. Different guys have different techniques, ya know. I would just be curious about it at least.

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For the questions and omissions: an additional recommendation for alternate stars (living or dead)

 

Marlon Brando (in his later, fat, totally insane state)

 

and

 

Klaus Kinski.

 

Best. Movie. Ever.

 

 

Oh also, I just thought of a movie that is guaranteed to be June's favorite movie: a body switcheroo on a plane.

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My first question when i first saw this way back was exactly about the intimacy. I know I would recognize not only my husband's different junk, but probably also the style of love making. Different guys have different techniques, ya know. I would just be curious about it at least.

We know that Castor can eat a peach for hours, so...yeah.

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So, I think we can all agree that--in the world of this movie--our tax dollars are 100% going toward questionable medical procedures in lieu of paying our law enforcement officials to give the tiniest sliver of a fuck. Here are two examples:

 

June brought up when Travoltage jumps off the oil rig prison and somehow manages to make it all the way to Spago, but what wasn't mentioned was as soon as he hits the water, the film cuts to the helicopter pilot who basically shrugs and flies off. First of all, the rig is in the ocean so there is a good possibility he could survive. Also, as far as I know, bodies are pretty buoyant, so even if he did die from the jump, his body should pop up in relatively the same spot. Hey Mr. Pilot, maybe hang around for second or two before you punch out for the day... I mean, land is clearly within shouting distance which should give you a pretty good indicator of which direction he would go. I'll tell you what, if you don't see his shattered corpse float to the surface after a couple of seconds, maybe make a couple of passes to see if he might be swimming to shore. Plus, he's not Aquaman! He is going to have to come up for air at sometime. You are in a helicopter! Find that son of a bitch!

 

My second example is just after the escape and Cavolta returns to the office their secret headquarters that everyone seems to know about. Margret Cho comes up to him and says, "Good news! Castor is dead," but when he demands to see the body she says, "We haven't recovered it yet, but even if he survived he wouldn't be stupid enough to come back here." Um...this is a sadistic, domestic terrorist that has been in operation for over six years, and you are in the FBI! I could see how if you were in the LAPD you could take some solace knowing he might not come back to your city, but it still might be a good idea to go ahead and apprehend him before he blows up some other city. Just saying...

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I also liked how after the opening carnage, Travolta goes home to his wife and she is like, "Oh hi."

 

Don't you want to talk about the pandemonium thats probably all over the news? A plane just crashed and about 20 people have been killed, and a jet propulsion lab just blew up at the airport. Have your really not heard anything about that?

 

Second, when Travolta returns to the office everyone gives him a standing applause. This wasn't a tactical success! Yes they got the Troys but a huge amount of agents lost their lives, you know... the agents who you work with... This isn't the mission that got Osama, its like they nuked LA to take out one guy!

 

Stop clapping!

 

It makes much more sense when Cavolta disarms the bomb and gets a standing applause. No one died and city is safe.

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Supreme Court justices do not get secret service protection. They may have a US Marshal in DC or local police if they are traveling, but its nothing like the massive secret service detail the president gets.

 

I was just about to come here and say this. I have a friend who is a US Marshall and sometimes he guards "Ruthie." She likes to go to classical music concerts.

 

I love this movie. But now that you point out how creepy-touchy the "face waterfall" is, I can't see it as sweet. I bet he did that to Scarlett Johansson at the Oscars.

 

I love Randall Park's Scientology observations. I bet L. Ron Hubbard wrote the first draft of this. That's why the science is so glossed over in just a few seconds.

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Has anybody mentioned how nonplussed the daughter seemed to be by (as far as she knows) her father, leering at her in her underwear?

 

Also, when Travolta first visits the secret medical facility they are 3D printing an ear. 3D printed organs and body parts aren't really science fiction anymore, albeit a ways from being used. Crazy that this nutso movie got that technology right.

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Sincere compliment: Sean Archer and Castor Troy are pretty awesome names for the main characters.

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ALL OF MY OMISSIONS!

  • Castor had multiple pair of sunglasses for different situations. Oh they're gonna be flying? Well of course he needs his flying sunglasses.
  • I'm definitely under the impression that Sean Archer wrote that report because it seemed like he was the head of that case. Which... why would they let the victim's father be on the case at all?! There is no way if a cop's child was shot that they would then let that cop investigate this case for 6 years!
  • THE CLOSE UP OF THE DAUGHTER'S MAKEUP, Y'ALL! She hides her face and then turns around and BOOM goth makeup galore! I expected them both to start seriously screaming like this was some horror movie.
  • There were a few times when John Travolta walked so oddly that I thought he was preparing to walk through a glass door.
  • No but seriously how was Nic Cage talking or smoking WITH NO LIPS?!
  • Why was it so important for no one to know that John Travolta was going to become Nic Cage? He was infiltrating a prison that supposedly no one knew about anyway so I can't really comprehend why his wife nor his agents could be filled in on this secret. Was Pollux the kind of person that got outside information at a snap of a finger? Maybe it would be harder for him to find out if there weren't TVs all over the place that had the news plastered on.
  • How did Castor!Travolta tell Pollux that he was actually Castor? I mean I guess he was still just as fucking crazy and Pollux could read him like a book, but all of a sudden you just see these two together and Pollux knows that that is his actual brother without any convincing at all. Was it cause he was already suspicious to begin with?
  • Sean!Cage escapes from prison and literally does NOTHING to hide his face except for turn his head away from a cop. No hat, no sunglasses, not even a rolled up window to cover him
  • So Sean!Travolta beats the crap out of Castor at the beginning which would leave you to believe that he has better hand to hand combat skills, right? But then Sean!Cage gets his ass handed to him at the ending. So are we to believe that John Travolta's body is just physically superior even after all the insults to him being bigger?

 

And finally just the whole time watching John Travolta act I couldn't help think of this

 

 

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But he was still way better as Castor than he was as Sean.

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Corrections:

 

In the plane chase Nic Cage appears to turn the plane by turning the planes yolk (steering wheel). In fact, when on the ground the planes wheels are controlled by the pedals. To turn the plane Nic cage would have to get in the pilot's chair and turn the plane with his feet.

 

yes! he would have just been moving around the ailerons causing absolutely nothing to happen.

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Something else I noticed, on the topic of this movie's blatant disregard of the laws of science- The main prison guard tells Archer/Troy that "the entire prison's one big magnetic field," and within THIRTY SECONDS, it cuts to a shot of banks of monitors and computers. If the magnetic field were as powerful as he said, all of those hard drives would be zapped and monitors ruined. Science? Fuck it!

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Corrections and Omissions:

 

Two things during the prisons escape.

1. What could Sean Archer's plan to escape POSSIBLY have been? He realizes he need to escape so he steals a cigarette and starts a fight with a guard (which, why the hell in this ULTRA-SUPER-MAX prison would they ever allow him to get that close to a guard?) the gaurds then carry him away for a lobotomy at which point he convinces another con to spring back to life after electro-shock.

 

• He did not know where the prison guards would take him

• He did not know about the other prisoner being there

• He had no reason on earth to believe this other prisoner would be some sort of super human capable of resisting frontal-lobe electro-shock.

SO WHAT THE FUCK WAS HIS PLAN BEYOND PISSING OFF THE GUARDS!?

 

2. Sean Archer escapes from a prison... BY MURDERING (or contributing to the murder of) NO LESS THAN 6 PRISON GUARDS! He is a Federal Agent who murders men who's only crime is guarding CON-AIR level super-criminals. Beyond that, now that everyone knows about the face switch, is he ever held accountable to all the Guards and Federal agents than are killed in the course of his exploits?

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In my opinion, with all the legitimately crazy stuff that happens, the characters in the movie act like explaining the swapping of each other's identities is the most difficult thing to explain in the world. "I took this guy's face to foil a terrorist plot. There was a problem, and he managed to take mine and is now posing as me." There, I just summed it up in less characters than a tweet! Yet, in the film, no one can just say this! I'm not saying people are going to believe you right away, but once you get your foot in the door, it can easily be explained. For instance, Archer calls his wife at her work and the conversation goes something like this:

 

"Listen carefully. the man you think is your husband--isn't."

"Who is this?"

"Just listen--take Jamie and leave town. Don't tell him where you're going."

"Whoever you are--don't call here again." [click]

 

I'm sorry, if I were to get a similar phone call I'd at least be intrigued. I'm not saying I'd believe it right away, but I'd at least hear the person out. Secondly, Archer is going about this in the craziest way possible. She asks, "Who is this?" That's your window of opportunity, man! Instead of immediately making demands of your wife, maybe start trying to explain what's going on. No, she's not going to believe you, but that's when you bust out that intimate moment that only you could know. You know the one. The one you wait to bust out until AFTER she's already proved you're telling the truth.

 

And then, later, Archer tries to get his wife to take Jamie and get out of town instead of going to the funeral, knowing the situation is going to be dangerous. At this point, his wife says, "Okay, Jamie won't be there, but I'm the only person who will be able to explain this zaniness. So I guess have to be there..." Actually, you know what would be better? You take your daughter, go to his office, bring the conclusive DNA evidence you've collected, and explain to everyone at the FBI what's going on!

 

It's all about communication people! Seriously guys, I just don't think Sean and his wife have what it takes to make it last...

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