Jump to content


Episode 153 - Escape from L.A.: LIVE!


324 replies to this topic

#21 Cameron H.

    Jabber-whoppin'

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,076 posts
  • LocationWerewolf Warehouse

Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:34 AM

View PostFister Roboto, on 06 January 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

They announced that Howl was going to put archives behind a pay wall at some point in the future on Comedy Bang Bang in August 2015. All the Howl ads have mentioned it for over a year. I'm not sure how much more notice they could have given.


Are you trying to tell me that a year and a half head's up and weekly reminders were adequate?!? That's bullshit! What they should have done is arrived at each and everyone's door with a full Power Point presentation and a batch of gourmet chocolate cookies explaining how this move benefits both the listener and the company.

People shouldn't be punished for procrastinating and being bad listeners, Fister. That's ridiculous!
Chilly: I'm telling you, man, if we had management, we'd be riding around in limousines, wearing leather pants, and buying condos. Can I eat this roast beef?
Body Rock (1984)

Seb: Maybe you just liked me when I was on my ass 'cause it made you feel better about yourself.
La La Land (2016)

#22 Torontosaurus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 222 posts
  • LocationToronto

Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:38 AM

PS I work a little bit in the music industry, it hits close to home when people complain about the idea of having to spend ANY money on supporting artists that they are supposedly fans of. This idea that art should be free until you choose to donate is BS, and only is allowed to continue because people can and will steal content easily if it can come in a digital form.

Which clearly applies even to comedy podcasts.
But go ahead, fill a server with back episodes for the "hardcore" fans. <_<

#23 taylor anne photo

    A Most Peculiar Mademoiselle

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,664 posts
  • LocationDeep in the heart of Texas

Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:56 AM

View PostTorontosaurus, on 06 January 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

A) It IS cheap. You may not personally agree that it is cheap, but why in the arts are producers expected to let the consumer decide on their own whim what a fair price is for their work? Earwolf takes money to run, the hosts are barely paid and they're not exactly price gouging here to try to make some level of profit. Throwing them 5.00 a month that you can dip in and out of as you wish is a pretty low-cost way to support the company.

I am not for or against the paywall subscription but let me stop you right there.

It may be cheap for you, but it is not cheap for everyone so just stop it. America is currently in an environment where we keep having to argue why everyone deserves to make enough money to LIVE while working 40 hours a week. Let alone afford extra things like subscription services. I work in the arts industry, I am a photographer, so I am more than aware of how everyone wants to skip out on paying for work. My prices are non-negotiable yet every time I photograph a wedding people haggle with me like I'm a god damn car salesmen.

No one is deciding for Earwolf what to set their prices at. Yeah some people are pissed, but fucking just let them be pissed and move along. Literally all of the other points you made are valid and I agree that people are overreacting but why are we even surprised at this point. But still the whole "It's cheap!" argument is flawed cause you don't get to decide what people can afford.
"Taylor doesn't comment often, but when she does, she burns the whole fuckin' place down." - CakeBug Tranch

#24 Cameron H.

    Jabber-whoppin'

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,076 posts
  • LocationWerewolf Warehouse

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:00 AM

View PostTorontosaurus, on 06 January 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

PAYWALL PARTY

I've definitely crankily complained about Howl before on Earwolf forums, so I won't pretend to be a white knight. But to me it is sad to see people so mad about the paywall. My reasons why if anyone cares:

A) It IS cheap. You may not personally agree that it is cheap, but why in the arts are producers expected to let the consumer decide on their own whim what a fair price is for their work? Earwolf takes money to run, the hosts are barely paid and they're not exactly price gouging here to try to make some level of profit. Throwing them 5.00 a month that you can dip in and out of as you wish is a pretty low-cost way to support the company.

B ) You can still listen to the newest episodes, and many others. So you may not be able to tell a friend to go listen to an episode from 3 years ago--is that really such a huge inconvenience? If you can't get them into the show via ANY of the episodes from the last 6 months, you can't actually get them into the show. I get that it's not OPTIMAL, but is it really that significant, or is just a point that can be latched onto?

C)The surprise factor. Yeah, it kind of sucks there wasn't more warning this was about to actually happen. All of the deadlines and timelines with Howl have been blown; it's been a mess. But you were warned this was coming if you were listening to the Howl ads and announcements. And if you don't listen to the ads, how were they going to tell you? I had a ton of episodes saved months ago. If you don't, again I get that it's not ideal, but also maybe cut Earwolf a tiny bit of slack for giving you free stuff for years. They don't owe you much, if anything, and you probably owe them a little understanding.

--


D) PS HDTGM probably has a lot of clout within Earwolf, so they probably will be able to dismantle the paywall system, and then Earwolf loses a major way to make any money. Hosts of less popular shows who don't have the income of these hosts may lose out. Seems sad to me.



I'm agree with you on all points, including also bitching about this...back in 2015.

A couple of quick FAQ's:

"Cameron, I'm, like, a really giving person--a true altruist. I want to spread the Earwolf Gospel, but how can I do it if I can't share my very favoritist episodes."

As many people have pointed out, a lot of these episodes can be found on You Tube. A place where you can make a play list that you can easily ask people to check out. (But, shhhh...don't tell Earwolf. I don't think they realize this "You Tube" exists....)

"Well, I guess that is an option...I mean, I just want to support the company I love."

Sure you do.

"No, really."

I get it.

"It's just, why do they need more money? It's always been free before. And there are ads so it's not like they're not making money..."

You're absolutely right. Success is a finite thing, and once one reaches a certain point, there's absolutely no point in trying to be even more successful. That's just being a greedy son of a bitch.

"What I would have done is..."

Let me just stop you there. It's not your call. It's done.

"But if they actually wanted to make more money they should have..."

Of course! Because they put ZERO thought into what would work for them. Maybe they know how to run their own company? Unless you own your own podcasting network, then I really don't think you know all the figures they're looking at. And even if you DO own a podcast network, their situation might be different from yours so any advice you have is probably completely invalid.

"But...my butt hurts"

I'm sorry. Need some ointment?

"Nah. I think I'll just bitch at the hosts and be a pain in the ass."

Great idea! Because we all know how fun and productive it is to be bitched at by customers when our boss makes an unpopular decision! I bet Paul and the gang are having a great time listening to all these complaints.

"I just don't like it!"

I don't particularly like it either, but I'm a fucking adult who understands that life isn't always fun or fair. Now let's direct our ire where it belongs..at this stupid movie that I have no desire to watch.
Chilly: I'm telling you, man, if we had management, we'd be riding around in limousines, wearing leather pants, and buying condos. Can I eat this roast beef?
Body Rock (1984)

Seb: Maybe you just liked me when I was on my ass 'cause it made you feel better about yourself.
La La Land (2016)

#25 Torontosaurus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 222 posts
  • LocationToronto

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:00 AM

"That was Gone Girl, bitch"

I love D'Arcy.

#26 DigDug Funnie

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:00 AM

Oh the basketball scene...

Why count by 2's? Cuervo already changed the shot clock to 10 seconds, removed all other basketball related rules, and said "No 3 point bullshit," so why even count by twos? Just say five baskets.

Also, like Jason brought up, why dribble? Cuervo never said he had to. Its already difficult enough for Snake to successfully make a shot (he has ONE FUCKING EYE), so why insist on dribbling, a skill that wastes time and is ridiculously hard without the aid of depth perception. Maybe that's why Kurt Russell had to practice so much, he actually had figure out how to play basketball without a left eye.

And lastly, did Cuervo really build a regulation size basketball court, wood and all, in the center of the Coliseum? Seems like a waste of space and time as a basketball court is roughly 1/12 the size of a football field not including sidelines and, although I'm not from LA, isn't there a ton of other places, like the Staples Center or Pauley Pavilion, that would be more conducive to this event?

#27 Torontosaurus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 222 posts
  • LocationToronto

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:02 AM

Cam Aytch gettin hella real y'all

#28 firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,265 posts
  • LocationIreland

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:03 AM

from pauls instagram ... if this doesn't make you smile then you're dead inside ... go on the paul!!!!

Posted Image

#29 firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,265 posts
  • LocationIreland

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:04 AM

also ... heads up

Posted Image

#30 Sun Tzu Said That

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:10 AM

Jurassic Park came out in 1993, LA was 96. So even less of an excuse for the SFX to be as cheesy as they are.

Also can y'all discuss this paywall shit without throwing judgements at each other? You know, no insinuations that people are poors or immature or anything. I'm also in the arts and I get it, but we can talk about this without potshots.

#31 StickyKeys

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:15 AM

Just wanted to say I appreciate Paul's intro at the end. I do remember hearing about this, but since so much time had passed, I'd forgotten it was a thing. I just wondered why I didn't have access to any older, unsaved episodes.

I don't think this is an issue of "paying for art". This show and others make money off the live shows and merch which I'm completely fine with. The ads can be annoying and excessive, but it's something I'm willing to put up with.

My problem with this particular paywall is the same I always have. If I'm paying for Netflix,Amazon, HBO Go/Now,Showtime, Hulu, etc, am I going to want to add another sum for podcasts that used to be free? It's one thng to add it for something like the CBB livetours, or exclusive content, but to charge me to listen to the same thing I previously had access to seems excessive. And if the Howl app is anything like the woefully buggy See-So app, then I'm not really enthused about adding another expense.

That said, I hope they get it worked out in a pleasing way.

Now to listen to the current ep while I still can.

#32 Cameron H.

    Jabber-whoppin'

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,076 posts
  • LocationWerewolf Warehouse

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:26 AM

View PostStickyKeys, on 06 January 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

My problem with this particular paywall is the same I always have. If I'm paying for Netflix,Amazon, HBO Go/Now,Showtime, Hulu, etc, am I going to want to add another sum for podcasts that used to be free? It's one thng to add it for something like the CBB livetours, or exclusive content, but to charge me to listen to the same thing I previously had access to seems excessive. And if the Howl app is anything like the woefully buggy See-So app, then I'm not really enthused about adding another expense.


Here's my issue with this argument, though. As people have said (as I just said), these episodes are still available--for free--online. This isn't a question of, "I don't want to pay for something I used to get for free" the real issue is, "They are no longer for free in a place that's quite as convenient for me (...and I may now have to use my Data to stream it)."

If you don't want Howl, don't get it. There are other ways of getting these episodes if you really want them.
Chilly: I'm telling you, man, if we had management, we'd be riding around in limousines, wearing leather pants, and buying condos. Can I eat this roast beef?
Body Rock (1984)

Seb: Maybe you just liked me when I was on my ass 'cause it made you feel better about yourself.
La La Land (2016)

#33 taylor anne photo

    A Most Peculiar Mademoiselle

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,664 posts
  • LocationDeep in the heart of Texas

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:30 AM

This really shouldn't be causing fights or anything between us all. So forget me saying anything about it.

Posted Image
"Taylor doesn't comment often, but when she does, she burns the whole fuckin' place down." - CakeBug Tranch

#34 Torontosaurus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 222 posts
  • LocationToronto

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:35 AM

View PostStickyKeys, on 06 January 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Just wanted to say I appreciate Paul's intro at the end. I do remember hearing about this, but since so much time had passed, I'd forgotten it was a thing. I just wondered why I didn't have access to any older, unsaved episodes.

I don't think this is an issue of "paying for art". This show and others make money off the live shows and merch which I'm completely fine with. The ads can be annoying and excessive, but it's something I'm willing to put up with.

My problem with this particular paywall is the same I always have. If I'm paying for Netflix,Amazon, HBO Go/Now,Showtime, Hulu, etc, am I going to want to add another sum for podcasts that used to be free? It's one thng to add it for something like the CBB livetours, or exclusive content, but to charge me to listen to the same thing I previously had access to seems excessive. And if the Howl app is anything like the woefully buggy See-So app, then I'm not really enthused about adding another expense.

That said, I hope they get it worked out in a pleasing way.

Now to listen to the current ep while I still can.



Hulu used to be free, and now it's paid. That's how content usually works these days. Popularity first, money second (if you're lucky). PS Hosting back episodes of content costs money: servers, bandwidth, etc. The more episodes a podcast has the more it costs to save all those back episodes for your convenience.

"I don't think this is an issue of "paying for art". This show and others make money off the live shows and merch which I'm completely fine with."

I'm glad you're fine with the several thousand dollars they make a year off that; I bet it pays for a whole 1/8 of one engineer.
The entire issue with paying for art is that people think they should be able to decide, with a completely uninformed and self-serving opinion, what is a reasonable way for the artists to charge. And that generally works out really poorly for the artists.

Don't pay for the service if you don't want. Don't pay for Netflix if you don't want it. Don't expect those companies to just give you whatever you want for free because that is of course what you would prefer.

#35 Torontosaurus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 222 posts
  • LocationToronto

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:47 AM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 06 January 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

No one is deciding for Earwolf what to set their prices at. Yeah some people are pissed, but fucking just let them be pissed and move along. Literally all of the other points you made are valid and I agree that people are overreacting but why are we even surprised at this point. But still the whole "It's cheap!" argument is flawed cause you don't get to decide what people can afford.


Cheap is obviously an incendiary word. It can really be taken to mean different things. To me, it is objectively cheap in the sense that they aren't charging a lot compared to the costs involved and the number of people they have to pay out. I'm sure they set that number as low as they reasonably could. They aren't a conglomerate with a monopoly running at a 1000% profit.

Whether it is cheap in relation to any particular persons budget is another matter. From that perspective I'm not trying to dictate to anyone whether 5 dollars should matter to their life or not. It's still a personal decision whether the paid tier is worthwhile or affordable as an upgrade from the remaining free tier.

So I'm not looking to offend people, and I hope this isn't the next hugest flame war ever. But I do strongly believe that people who are mad about the paywall should really step back and try to examine whether it affects them negatively enough to actually be mad at Earwolf or the podcast or Midroll or anyone.

Gonna leave my computer and stop cyber-raging for a while :-X

#36 reggaechristmas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 32 posts
  • LocationBrooklyn, NY

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:52 AM

If I already have subscriptions to all of these things I want why would I also get a subscription to something else I also want? It's almost like I need to do a budget and prioritize what I consume. Everything remains free for a six month window and that seems generous enough.

#37 Wil Dride

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 06 January 2017 - 11:54 AM

Snake Porksword?!? Snake Kickflip?!?

I'll always remember Valeria Golino from her crappy Tarzan TV show -- Because I'm awful, and can't tell her from Lydie Denier. French? Italian? Like it really matters. I have no idea who people are.

This movie has the classic trope of forcing the protagonist to be in your debt to control him or her. That's not what Crank is. The so-called Hong Kong cocktail is just to kill the guy, slowly, forcing him to do a bunch of stuff to keep alive long enough to get some kind of revenge before he dies. At no point are they promising to cure him in exchange for services. They just want him to die, but live long enough to know what they've done to him.



#38 reggaechristmas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 32 posts
  • LocationBrooklyn, NY

Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:02 PM

Also, this movie rules and I don't like hearing it being badmouthed.

#39 Wil Dride

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:04 PM

"Here: Just let me get my car keys."
"Wait -- You're naked. Where did you get them?"
"From my Socket Pocket."
"And now I must vomit."

#40 taylor anne photo

    A Most Peculiar Mademoiselle

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,664 posts
  • LocationDeep in the heart of Texas

Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:20 PM

View PostTorontosaurus, on 06 January 2017 - 11:47 AM, said:

Cheap is obviously an incendiary word. It can really be taken to mean different things. To me, it is objectively cheap in the sense that they aren't charging a lot compared to the costs involved and the number of people they have to pay out. I'm sure they set that number as low as they reasonably could. They aren't a conglomerate with a monopoly running at a 1000% profit.

Whether it is cheap in relation to any particular persons budget is another matter. From that perspective I'm not trying to dictate to anyone whether 5 dollars should matter to their life or not. It's still a personal decision whether the paid tier is worthwhile or affordable as an upgrade from the remaining free tier.

So I'm not looking to offend people, and I hope this isn't the next hugest flame war ever. But I do strongly believe that people who are mad about the paywall should really step back and try to examine whether it affects them negatively enough to actually be mad at Earwolf or the podcast or Midroll or anyone.

Gonna leave my computer and stop cyber-raging for a while :-X

I completely agree with you here that compared to the amount they put in this is cheap. However, that is not the way you worded your point. I appreciate your response because now I can clearly see where you are coming from and that you understand what I was saying.

There just seems to be so many people who are outraged that this is happening and people who are outraged at the outrage and then I'm over here like hey everyone has different opinions on the matter lol. Let's all hug and discuss Escape from L.A. now!
"Taylor doesn't comment often, but when she does, she burns the whole fuckin' place down." - CakeBug Tranch