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Musical Mondays-Week 6-Jesus Christ Superstar

HDTGM Musicals Fun & Games

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#41 tomspanks

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 08:59 PM

View PostFister Roboto, on 27 February 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

And, for real, where did the other two crosses come from?


Maybe JC DIY'ed them using his carpentry background.

#42 kateacola

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 09:18 PM

View PostFister Roboto, on 27 February 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

Okay. Here's the thing: if I can't get into the music, I can't get into the musical.

Yeah-- if I don't like a majority of the songs I can't get into it either.

View PostFister Roboto, on 27 February 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

I had hoped that the Mr Show sketch (Jeepers Creepers Semistar) was overly exaggerated. It is not. At all.

The more I listen to the soundtrack / rewatch clips of the movie, the funnier I find the Jeepers Creepers sketch.. since it's pretty spot on with the parodying the shots/visuals, music & crazy dancing.

But even though there was some weird musical choices..I dunno a lot of the songs still worked for me. I did like the weird choices-- the non-typical time signatures in the songs and/ or multiple time signature changes.

#43 Fister Roboto

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 09:34 PM

View PostJammerLea, on 27 February 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

Can I say it also seemed odd that the musical made no mention of the resurrection? I mean, I know the story didn't go that far, but it was something I kept expecting that just never happened lol

It's not totally abnormal for a passion play (which is pretty clearly the inspiration for the musical) to not include the resurrection. Many do, but they just as often depict the suffering of Jesus - the idea being to show what he went through to redeem humanity.


View Posttomspanks, on 27 February 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:


Maybe JC DIY'ed them using his carpentry background.

Or maybe he took one and turned it into three just like the loaves and fishes.
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#44 kateacola

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 09:35 PM

And again, I really enjoyed Carl Anderson/Judas. I really liked his voice and what he brought to his songs, so I did like all songs he's in. Did also think Mary had a good voice. And liked the super low tone/ sometimes high pitched talk-signing from the Pharisees & priests.

#45 Cam Bert

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 03:29 AM

Sorry to be not so active in my pick, but I'm currently battling the flu so what free time I have has mostly been spent sleeping.

So as I said in the pick thread I didn't really grow up religious but I picked up things. here or there. As I kid I was fascinated with the King Herod scene. Mostly because the song is so different than the rest of the movie. It's a jaunty old timey number among these ballads and rock songs. Not to mention aside from the "we're making a movie" opening and closing, him and his scene is also the most anachronistic. I've looked into the history. Apparently it's the only non-original song. It was written in 20 minutes as a reworking of an older song of Andrew Lloyd Webber's. That doesn't really clear things up a whole lot. So then I look at the scene from an analytical point of view. Pilate passes Jesus on to Herod to be judged, so you have this "false king" being judged by an equally "false king." Then you have the issue of Herod tempting Jesus to use his gifts to save himself, another common theme of religious works. The best reason I can think of is make he seem further out of touch or so beyond the pale.

It hit me though, I don't even know who King Herod is or what if any significance he had in the bible. Maybe if I understood that part of it it would help me further understand this scene. So I ask any of you with a greater religious understanding to help me see what I may be missing.
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#46 Cam Bert

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 03:32 AM

I also quickly want to point out something I find interesting about this movie. You have a multi-ethnic American cast filming a musical written by two British men and directed by a Canadian in Israel.
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#47 Cameron H.

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 05:38 AM

View PostCam Bert, on 28 February 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

Sorry to be not so active in my pick, but I'm currently battling the flu so what free time I have has mostly been spent sleeping.

So as I said in the pick thread I didn't really grow up religious but I picked up things. here or there. As I kid I was fascinated with the King Herod scene. Mostly because the song is so different than the rest of the movie. It's a jaunty old timey number among these ballads and rock songs. Not to mention aside from the "we're making a movie" opening and closing, him and his scene is also the most anachronistic. I've looked into the history. Apparently it's the only non-original song. It was written in 20 minutes as a reworking of an older song of Andrew Lloyd Webber's. That doesn't really clear things up a whole lot. So then I look at the scene from an analytical point of view. Pilate passes Jesus on to Herod to be judged, so you have this "false king" being judged by an equally "false king." Then you have the issue of Herod tempting Jesus to use his gifts to save himself, another common theme of religious works. The best reason I can think of is make he seem further out of touch or so beyond the pale.

It hit me though, I don't even know who King Herod is or what if any significance he had in the bible. Maybe if I understood that part of it it would help me further understand this scene. So I ask any of you with a greater religious understanding to help me see what I may be missing.


Here's a quick explanation of who these people were and what's going on:

Judea was occupied by Rome, and like they did in many places, the Roman's allowed the people to pretty much govern themselves--with some restrictions. One of those restrictions was that only a Roman official could condemn a man to death.

So when Caiphas and his boys decide that Jesus needs to die, they bring him before Pilate, the Roman governor. After Pilate questions Jesus, he feels like Jesus hasn't done anything wrong and doesn't want to sentence an innocent man to be crucified. However, the people are about to riot if he doesn't do it which obviously wouldn't be too good for him or his career.

Anyway, during the trial, it comes out that Jesus is actually from Nazareth, which is ruled by Herod (another Roman). Due to this technicality, and to keep the blood off of his own hands, he sends him to be judged by Herod.

As in the Musical, Herod demands Jesus to prove his divinity, and just as in the movie, Jesus refuses. Basically, at this point, Herod recognizes Jesus' innocence, but doesn't really care one way or the other. As far as he's concerned, Jesus is just another fraud. So he sends him back to Pilate.

Now Pilate is in a pickle, he can either kill this innocent man or risk open rebellion. In a last ditch attempt to save Jesus' life, he tries to placate the mob by having Jesus flogged. It still doesn't work. So, finally, he "washes his hands" of it and sentences Jesus to death. Pilate wasn't necessarily "bad," although, being Roman, I'm sure he wasn't exactly a friend to the Jews. He just found himself in a real life morality riddle.

As for Herod's Song, my take is he's supposed to represent Roman decadence contrasted with Jewish austerity. As far as the occupied Jewish population was concerned at the time, the Romans might as well have been aliens. The song illustrates this culture clash.

(Again, I hope I'm not coming off as a know-it-all, and I hope this helps. I just want to clear up some confusion. I'm sure had I not grown up with it, I'd be wondering what the fuck was going on too.)
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#48 Cam Bert

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 06:07 AM

View PostCameron H., on 28 February 2017 - 05:38 AM, said:

Here's a quick explanation of who these people were and what's going on:

Judea was occupied by Rome, and like they did in many places, the Roman's allowed the people to pretty much govern themselves--with some restrictions. One of those restrictions was that only a Roman official could condemn a man to death.

So when Caiphas and his boys decide that Jesus needs to die, they bring him before Pilate, the Roman governor. After Pilate questions Jesus, he feels like Jesus hasn't done anything wrong and doesn't want to sentence an innocent man to be crucified. However, the people are about to riot if he doesn't do it which obviously wouldn't be too good for him or his career.

Anyway, during the trial, it comes out that Jesus is actually from Nazareth, which is ruled by Herod (another Roman). Due to this technicality, and to keep the blood off of his own hands, he sends him to be judged by Herod.

As in the Musical, Herod demands Jesus to prove his divinity, and just as in the movie, Jesus refuses. Basically, at this point, Herod recognizes Jesus' innocence, but doesn't really care one way or the other. As far as he's concerned, Jesus is just another fraud. So he sends him back to Pilate.

Now Pilate is in a pickle, he can either kill this innocent man or risk open rebellion. In a last ditch attempt to save Jesus' life, he tries to placate the mob by having Jesus flogged. It still doesn't work. So, finally, he "washes his hands" of it and sentences Jesus to death. Pilate wasn't necessarily a "bad," although, being Roman, I'm sure he wasn't exactly a friend to the Jews. He just found himself in a real life morality riddle.

As for Herod's Song, my take is he's supposed to represent Roman decadence contrasted with Jewish austerity. As far as the occupied Jewish population was concerned at the time, the Romans might as well have been aliens. The song illustrates this culture clash.

(Again, I hope I'm not coming off as a know-it-all, and I hope this helps. I just want to clear up some confusion. I'm sure had I not grown up with it, I'd be wondering what the fuck was going on too.)

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Thanks for the insight. I guess I didn't fully get the whole thing about who was Jewish and what fell under Judea law. It makes a bit more sense.

Now this is where I need CakeBug (hope all went well!) or someone else, maybe Quasar, who's seen staged productions to chime in. I've actually seen the scene played different ways. 80% of the time it was played for laughs with them really either playing him camp/gay or just straight up comedic. I did see one production where they played it as straight as they could and brought the tempo down, which gave it a whole different feel but was seemingly more in line with the rest of the movie.
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#49 tomspanks

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:00 AM

View PostCameron H., on 28 February 2017 - 05:38 AM, said:

So when Caiphas and his boys decide that Jesus needs to die, they bring him before Pilate, the Roman governor. After Pilate questions Jesus, he feels like Jesus hasn't done anything wrong and doesn't want to sentence an innocent man to be crucified. However, the people are about to riot if he doesn't do it which obviously wouldn't be too good for him or his career.

Now Pilate is in a pickle, he can either kill this innocent man or risk open rebellion. In a last ditch attempt to save Jesus' life, he tries to placate the mob by having Jesus flogged. It still doesn't work. So, finally, he "washes his hands" of it and sentences Jesus to death. Pilate wasn't necessarily a "bad," although, being Roman, I'm sure he wasn't exactly a friend to the Jews. He just found himself in a real life morality riddle.


I didn't understand why the mob/crowd adored JC earlier in the movie and then wanted him dead in these scenes. Are these different groups of people?

#50 Cam Bert

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:03 AM

View Posttomspanks, on 28 February 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:


I didn't understand why the mob/crowd adored JC earlier in the movie and then wanted him dead in these scenes. Are these different groups of people?

I assumed they were suppose to be different groups. After all they only had a bus full of extras to work with so crowd scenes would have to reuse people.
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#51 tomspanks

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:07 AM

Btw, feel better soon, Cam Bert!

#52 Cameron H.

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:12 AM

View Posttomspanks, on 28 February 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:


I didn't understand why the mob/crowd adored JC earlier in the movie and then wanted him dead in these scenes. Are these different groups of people?


It's mostly the same crowd. This all goes into Old Testament prophecy. Basically, they are waiting for the Messiah to come and establish his kingdom. In their minds, this means overthrowing Rome. When it becomes clear that the "kingdom" Jesus is offering is some artsy-fartsy, intangible kingdom, they get pissed.

When he goes into Jerusalem ("Hosanna"), this is supposed to be the triumphant return of their king. It's supposed to be the first step of their revolution. Instead, it goes down much different.
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#53 Cam Bert

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:14 AM

View Posttomspanks, on 28 February 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

Btw, feel better soon, Cam Bert!

Thank you. I'm over the hump of it now fortunately. It was my time. So far this month we had eight of twenty teachers out with it so it was only time it came to me. I may watch Hello Dolly with my last day off tomorrow. That or the movie Fister was talking about on Letterboxd.
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#54 Fister Roboto

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:17 AM

View PostCam Bert, on 28 February 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

Not to mention aside from the "we're making a movie" opening and closing, him and his scene is also the most anachronistic.

Well, aside from when Judas just kind of casually jaunts away from some random tanks.
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#55 Cam Bert

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:23 AM

View PostFister Roboto, on 28 February 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Well, aside from when Judas just kind of casually jaunts away from some random tanks.

Yes, I was thinking in terms of clothing but you're right tanks and fighter jets are far more anachronistic.
Then there is also all the postcards, mirrors, fur coats and money of the market scene. I guess Herod's palace can be third.
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#56 tomspanks

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:32 AM

View PostCam Bert, on 28 February 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

Thank you. I'm over the hump of it now fortunately. It was my time. So far this month we had eight of twenty teachers out with it so it was only time it came to me. I may watch Hello Dolly with my last day off tomorrow. That or the movie Fister was talking about on Letterboxd.


Why not both?

A general comment about the music in JCS. Although JCS is billed as a rock opera, I didn't think it was "rock" like Tommy. Tommy had in-your-face guitar riffs, while JCS had ragtime dance breaks. I really felt like JCS was closer to Cats (again, not a bad thing). The standard orchestration for Tommy is drums, bass, guitar 1 & 2, horn, and keyboard. That's it. On the other hand, JCS's is more like a regular pit orchestra than a rock band.

#57 tomspanks

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:35 AM

View PostCam Bert, on 28 February 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

Yes, I was thinking in terms of clothing but you're right tanks and fighter jets are far more anachronistic.
Then there is also all the postcards, mirrors, fur coats and money of the market scene. I guess Herod's palace can be third.


Can 4th be mandarin fruits? LOL. The mandarin citrus fruit didn't exist in JC's time.

#58 Cam Bert

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:42 AM

View Posttomspanks, on 28 February 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:


Can 4th be mandarin fruits? LOL. The mandarin citrus fruit didn't exist in JC's time.

You've really gone all in on the mandarin stuff!

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#59 tomspanks

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:44 AM

View PostCam Bert, on 28 February 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

You've really gone all in on the mandarin stuff!


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#60 kateacola

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:56 AM

View PostCameron H., on 28 February 2017 - 05:38 AM, said:

Here's a quick explanation of who these people were and what's going on:

Judea was occupied by Rome, and like they did in many places, the Roman's allowed the people to pretty much govern themselves--with some restrictions. One of those restrictions was that only a Roman official could condemn a man to death.

So when Caiphas and his boys decide that Jesus needs to die, they bring him before Pilate, the Roman governor. After Pilate questions Jesus, he feels like Jesus hasn't done anything wrong and doesn't want to sentence an innocent man to be crucified. However, the people are about to riot if he doesn't do it which obviously wouldn't be too good for him or his career.

Anyway, during the trial, it comes out that Jesus is actually from Nazareth, which is ruled by Herod (another Roman). Due to this technicality, and to keep the blood off of his own hands, he sends him to be judged by Herod.

As in the Musical, Herod demands Jesus to prove his divinity, and just as in the movie, Jesus refuses. Basically, at this point, Herod recognizes Jesus' innocence, but doesn't really care one way or the other. As far as he's concerned, Jesus is just another fraud. So he sends him back to Pilate.

Now Pilate is in a pickle, he can either kill this innocent man or risk open rebellion. In a last ditch attempt to save Jesus' life, he tries to placate the mob by having Jesus flogged. It still doesn't work. So, finally, he "washes his hands" of it and sentences Jesus to death. Pilate wasn't necessarily a "bad," although, being Roman, I'm sure he wasn't exactly a friend to the Jews. He just found himself in a real life morality riddle.

As for Herod's Song, my take is he's supposed to represent Roman decadence contrasted with Jewish austerity. As far as the occupied Jewish population was concerned at the time, the Romans might as well have been aliens. The song illustrates this culture clash.

(Again, I hope I'm not coming off as a know-it-all, and I hope this helps. I just want to clear up some confusion. I'm sure had I not grown up with it, I'd be wondering what the fuck was going on too.)


Thanks for this explanation... Im not really religious, but in a similar boat as a couple others have mentioned. With being dragged to church when I was younger. My mom was religious but my Dad wasn't (still isnt). So we'd go through spurts of going every Sunday to church …to not going for awhile. And after my mom passed away (when I was in high school) I stopped going all together... Since I never really bought into it, even when I was a kid. And was baptised (late) and went to church mainly for her sake.

But anyway.. I am familiar with the story but the Romans/Jews part in it was hazy and I dont think I ever fully understood their parts in it. Makes more sense now