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CameronH

Musical Mondays Week 10 High School Musical 1 & 2...maybe 3

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There's still a lot I want to talk about, but I'm still behind on sleep from work this weekend and it's my day off so Imma go back to bed.

 

I will leave off that I utterly enjoyed Taylor's (the character) reaction when she found out Gabriella was smart, as she totally had that whole "Whoa, that's hot." sort of look, and we spent the rest of the movie believing she had a thing for Gabriella (Chad isn't that great, come on).

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If Taylor was crushing on Gabriella and Ryan actually came out in the third movie (as he was pressuring producers to let him do), this would have been a WAY more interesting series.

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Also, will anyone be bummed if spoilers from HSM 2 and 3 come up in our discussions? I watched all three on the weekend so I'm pretty sure I'll be referring to things that happen later sometimes. Can I assume that no one here is going to be mad, like that one guy who hasn't seen 'Inception' yet and doesn't want anyone to spoil it?

 

Go for it!

 

I'm sure I could talk about props and set dressings in this movie all day, but I'd really like to just talk about Zeke. He's my absolute favorite person in this movie. Once he decides that he's coming out as a baker, he just leans into it. Doesn't seem to care at all that his friend made fun of him. Prior to him just carrying around bags of baked goods everywhere he goes, what was he doing with all of it? And where is he getting the time to bake ALL of these different things?

 

So, they mentioned there was free period. I wonder if he skipped free period basketball practice to sneak off to bake something?

 

Also, I kept thinking that in a few years, they're gonna find out that baking is "cool."

 

I'd say they're antagonists purely because their entire mission seems to be keeping Troy and Gabriella away from each other and thinking ONLY about the one thing. So by keeping them unhappy they are then seen as the "bad guys."

 

In addition, I felt like each group kind of devalued/looked down on other groups. If you're in the academic decathlon, you shouldn't waste your time with the arts - you should be studying 24/7. If you're on the basketball team, you can't participate in a sissy activity. As for Sharpay and her theater group, I'm sure they don't want jocks and nerds ruining the musical. The problem is, real high school isn't like that. I feel like the filmmakers took every high school trope and included them into the movie.

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So, they mentioned there was free period. I wonder if he skipped free period basketball practice to sneak off to bake something?

 

Also, I kept thinking that in a few years, they're gonna find out that baking is "cool."

As soon as The Great British Baking Show hit America's radar Zeke became the most popular person.

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Also - I quickly want to mention how much I hate the drama's teacher refusal to recognize any sport terms. She sees a basketball and calls it hockey. She refuses to use the word 'team'. Its not that hard to remember basic terms.

 

It killed me that they made her into a villain. She's Cassie from A Chorus Line, one of the most awesomely awful movie musicals ever.

 

GlZFuH4.png?1

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It killed me that they made her into a villain. She's Cassie from A Chorus Line, one of the most awesomely awful movie musicals ever.

 

GlZFuH4.png?1

FUCK GUYS TOM JUST REVEALED HER NEXT PICK

 

giphy.gif

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Guys, I think we're misjudging Troy a bit. We see that he loves to sing and his sensitive side by running off to his garden safe space. Now if we look at his father we now know why. His dad star high school basketball player, however after school he becomes a regular Al Bundy just clinging to that success and popularity he had as high school basket ball star. From a young age he's putting tremendous pressure on Troy to be a basketball star and protect the J. So much so when they're on a family skiing vacation on New Year's Eve he takes him to the hotel basketball court to practice. He needs him to succeed to validate his own wasted life. Maybe at an earlier age Troy showed signs of enjoying to sing but those were shot down. Then getting into East High where everybody has to stick to their lane further denied him his true passion and he was always under the thumb and eye of his dad. I feel really bad for him.

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I think it's more that that those are not the only things that T&G are passionate about and liking more than one thing just seems craaaaazy to literally everyone else. It's a shocking revelation that humans are multi-layered 3 dimensional beings! Troy is passionate about basketball and then discovers he also likes to sing but all of his basketball people are like woah does this mean you're not gonna be our star player anymore??? While Gabriella is crazy smart so Taylor (great name) thinks she'll stop studying as hard if she's busy with performing. But you don't just suddenly lose all those skills and brains just cause you just start singing like wtf people.

 

Also don't forget about Chad! He was a shithead too!

I think part of the issue is that Sharpay is unwilling to share the spotlight, and sees Troybriella as a threat to their dominance of the school. If Sharpay went, 'oh nice, our musical will be even better now with these two talented people', there's not much conflict to work off.

 

I think I'm still not getting my point across, I'll try one more time. I get why they are the "bad" guys in the fiction of this world. What I don't understand is why, as a writer, you would write three characters (I included Chad in my OP) that are following their dreams to be the bad guys in your "follow your dreams" movie.

 

For example, it would be like if I wrote a movie where farting is the key to happiness. Farting will make you a good person. Farting is Nirvana. And then I wrote my antagonists to be the most flatulent Farty McFart Pantses you've ever seen. It contradicts what I'm trying to say.

 

 

Does that make more sense? In the fiction, I totally get that Sharpay is jealous. I get that Chad and Taylor want Troy and Gabriela for their own agendas. What I don't get is making the three characters who have accomplished what the movie wants you to accomplish and make them the "bad" guys. This movie says, "to be happy, you need to follow your bliss." Sharpay, Chad, and Taylor are doing just that, and instead of becoming what the movie promises, they become a bunch of assholes.

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Yeah, but there's a difference between following your own bliss and messing with everyone else's bliss so that you can be the only happy farter... The meddling is what makes them unlikeable, but when they learn to accept everyone else, they're again judged on what they're good at. So Sharpay gets to dance with them at the end like she's one of the team. If she was a true villain, she'd be run out of town on a rail. BTW totally don't disagree with your points.

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Cameron, I understand what you're saying, but my argument is that that's not actually the mission statement of the movie! I believe the mission statement is "humans are multi-layered and can have multiple passions" but the antagonists of the movie do not believe that and try their damnedest to keep things the way they've always been, which is stick to the ONE thing you're good at and fuck the rest.

 

ETA: They're certainly not antagonists in the traditional sense, that's for sure, but I think because the four meddling characters are so selfish in their agendas it just happens that way. I mean Taylor's introduction is making fun of Chad for how dumb he is. That doesn't seem like the nicest of people you'd want to be around.

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My notes...

 

*Vanessa Anne?

 

*Where is Zac disappearing mom!!!???... I she a magician? :P

 

*Who reads a book during a loud new years Eve Party? Is it possible to concentrate w/o earplugs?

 

The dubbed/ADRd MC dialogue is Baaaaaaad (does Zac thank him in part 2 or 3???)

 

They don't wish Happy New Year to each other so its a lie that they felt something in the

karaoke perfomance

 

Also - I have a terrible television so I watch everything with closed captioning. This exchange came up before Troy saw Gabriella at the school -

Lol--I was watching it this morning and I caught that "Pink Jelly" line for the first time. I was like (high pitched voice), "What the fuck is going on right now?"

 

*Did Zac get black out drunk and/or stoned at a pink k/y jelly party???

 

*Is Ashley Tilsdale character called Sharpay because her character is a B-word?

 

*Cool chorographed dance with those b-balls, Bro!

 

*Loved Chad multiple wristwatches

 

* <3 Kelsi 4 Ever <3

 

*Ashley did get punked in Punk'd

 

*The stoners of this universe are called "the skaters"???

 

*The Nerds And Jocks are easily convinced both to separate Zac and Vanessa and bring them back together in a little more than 10min runtime.

 

*A score board control system conected to the internet??

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ETA: They're certainly not antagonists in the traditional sense, that's for sure, but I think because the four meddling characters are so selfish in their agendas it just happens that way. I mean Taylor's introduction is making fun of Chad for how dumb he is. That doesn't seem like the nicest of people you'd want to be around.

 

Yeah but that's the magic of Troybriella (I'm not letting this go, guys): when they get involved, they cause all their friends to shake off their long-held 'Status Quo' biases and by the second and third movies they've trebled their BFF pool!

 

Troybriella = World Peace

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For example, it would be like if I wrote a movie where farting is the key to happiness. Farting will make you a good person. Farting is Nirvana. And then I wrote my antagonists to be the most flatulent Farty McFart Pantses you've ever seen. It contradicts what I'm trying to say.

I like that farting was your go-to example

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I think I'm still not getting my point across, I'll try one more time. I get why they are the "bad" guys in the fiction of this world. What I don't understand is why, as a writer, you would write three characters (I included Chad in my OP) that are following their dreams to be the bad guys in your "follow your dreams" movie.

 

For example, it would be like if I wrote a movie where farting is the key to happiness. Farting will make you a good person. Farting is Nirvana. And then I wrote my antagonists to be the most flatulent Farty McFart Pantses you've ever seen. It contradicts what I'm trying to say.

 

Social identity and crowd psychology, bro. Well, for Chad, anyway. Chad doesn't want Troy, the coolest kid in the basketball team, to suddenly change groups and participate in the musical, because Chad is a non-member of that group.

 

It's like if the antagonist in your farting movie didn't want his friend to fart and burp.

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*Loved Chad multiple wristwatches

 

That made me laugh out loud. Chad also was never without a basketball, which I appreciated. The jock characters literally carried their priorities with them - Chad loves basketball, Zeke loves baking.

 

Also, random, but Troy magically changes between a track suit and basketball jersey several times in last few scenes of the movie. Why would he take the time to change before audition and/or singing with the whole group when no one else changes?

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*Vanessa Anne?

Great name

 

*The stoners of this universe are called "the skaters"???

Well that's just Disney for you.

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I don't fully understand the drama teacher and why she goes along with Sharpay's plan. I mean she hears them sing and even though they broke her golden rule about being on time she give them a callback. Clearly she's impressed. Then Sharpay plants the idea that they're trying to ruin the musical. How and why and based on what? When she confronts Coach Dad about it, he has no idea what she's talking about and she finds no proof of sabotage. Yet she continues to listen to and go along with Sharpay's scheme. What happened to giving everybody a fair and equal chance because that's the way of the theater? Scheduling the audition at a time that is purposely hurtful to two people doesn't seem to be honoring that tradition. Troy and Gabriella can sing and seem genuinely interested so why does she continue to believe Sharpay? Just because of her long hatred of sports? Gabriella is new why would she be trying to ruin the musical?

 

Sharpay also claims that she worked so hard on it, but what exactly has she done? Kelsi wrote the score,no parts are cast yet, and detentioners are making sets, so the only thing she might have done is write the book.

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Cameron, I understand what you're saying, but my argument is that that's not actually the mission statement of the movie! I believe the mission statement is "humans are multi-layered and can have multiple passions" but the antagonists of the movie do not believe that and try their damnedest to keep things the way they've always been, which is stick to the ONE thing you're good at and fuck the rest.

 

ETA: They're certainly not antagonists in the traditional sense, that's for sure, but I think because the four meddling characters are so selfish in their agendas it just happens that way. I mean Taylor's introduction is making fun of Chad for how dumb he is. That doesn't seem like the nicest of people you'd want to be around.

 

I guess I feel like if the point of the movie is to show that people can have "multiple passions," then the movie chose the wrong couple to be protagonists--it should have been Sharpay, Chad, or Taylor. Troy and Gabriela say in their very first scene that they like to sing. They have no problem accepting that they can like more than one thing. They don't learn to like singing, they already do. For them, that's not the conflict. For them, being judged for doing something that they want to do is the conflict. That's why I'm saying the point of the movie is to follow your bliss and not worry about what other people think.

 

 

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Can I say again how awesome Kelsi is? Even if we put aside that orchestration at this level is well beyond the resources she has, she's a fantastic character. She gets a lot cooler in the next two movies, which is a shame, since her nerdy 'bowler hat and suit' persona is so endearing in the first one.

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then the movie chose the wrong couple to be protagonists

DING DING DING

 

It's a horrible movie with a stupid ass premise and uses these two extremely beautiful, talented kids to be like "Hey be accepting!"

 

There's literally NO REAL CONFLICT HERE

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It's like if the antagonist in your farting movie didn't want his friend to fart and burp.

 

Okay, this makes sense to me :)

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I thought it was funny that Troy's basketball buds were the most upset about Troy wanting to be in the musical...and they were some of the best dancers.

I think they doth protest too much.

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DING DING DING

 

It's a horrible movie with a stupid ass premise and uses these two extremely beautiful, talented kids to be like "Hey be accepting!"

 

There's literally NO REAL CONFLICT HERE

 

I wouldn't say it's horrible. I would say it's not for adults, though.

 

...which is why I love it.

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Can I say again how awesome Kelsi is? Even if we put aside that orchestration at this level is well beyond the resources she has, she's a fantastic character. She gets a lot cooler in the next two movies, which is a shame, since her nerdy 'bowler hat and suit' persona is so endearing in the first one.

But don't you remember that "take off the glasses and remove the ponytail" moment at the end!? I mean she was bound to get cooler cause they took away her bowler hat!

 

She's also the most beautiful person in the whole cast fo sho

MV5BMTEwNjI4OTA5NjVeQTJeQWpwZ15BbWU4MDc3NzY4MzAy._V1_UY317_CR12,0,214,317_AL_.jpg

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For example, it would be like if I wrote a movie where farting is the key to happiness. Farting will make you a good person. Farting is Nirvana. And then I wrote my antagonists to be the most flatulent Farty McFart Pantses you've ever seen. It contradicts what I'm trying to say.

From now on, when I need clarification on things, I'm going to ask people to explain it with farts.

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