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Musical Mondays Week 10 High School Musical 1 & 2...maybe 3


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#21 JammerLea

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:37 AM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 24 April 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

Most interesting from this: given that this movie is set in the protagonists' junior year (given that number 2 is the following summer and number three is subtitled 'senior year'), WHERE ARE ALL THE SENIORS IN THIS MOVIE? Why is there no fuss over graduating students? Why are there no older students in the musical? Why are there no older students in the basketball team? In number 3, there are younger students (a basketball player, 'Rocketman', and an aspiring musical theatre girl, 'Tiara Gold' - oof to both names) who aspire to take the place of Troy and Sharpay after the older guys graduate. Why are there no older students in this movie? It seems like the juniors run the place.

Maybe their school system is worse than mine and the seniors were kept in a separate building.

Spoiler


#22 JammerLea

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:39 AM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 24 April 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

Also, I'm just gonna say now that I kind of wish Jammer had picked HSM2 as the MM this week. Same concept, WAY better movie. ;)

Plus it would be an epic troll move to pick a sequel, thus making everyone feel like they have to watch the first one...

I have not seen either of the sequels, despite how much the cheesiness of the first one has grown on me.

#23 SaraK

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:39 AM

Quote

I didn't get that it was immediately ignored. Zeke seemed to be the only one who was like "this is me and I don't care what you think" because they still spend the rest of the movie being shitheads to Troy and Gabriella. Martha doesn't get her moment to shine until the credits start to roll!


He wasn't part of the Status Quo song, but Troy seems to adapt very quickly to being known as the jock who sings. He briefly gets upset that people found out, and then just seems to constantly tell people that its not going to be a conflict. Aside of course from when he tells his friends what they want to hear so they'll leave him alone, but he doesn't seem like he's actually going to bail on the audition at all after that. He also seems very level-headed/earnest - when the other jock tells him about Zeke's baking, he seems really into it immediately. When Gabriella wants to audition and can't alone, he barely hesitates to help her out. He's super nice to Kelsi immediately after (re?)meeting her. His jock friends keep telling him he can't do both, and he basically just says sure I can.

Also - I quickly want to mention how much I hate the drama's teacher refusal to recognize any sport terms. She sees a basketball and calls it hockey. She refuses to use the word 'team'. Its not that hard to remember basic terms.

#24 CakeBug Tranch

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:41 AM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 24 April 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

Ugh no the second one was the worst! The literal only good thing to come out of that was this scene -

Posted Image


RESPECTFULLY disagree. The second one was the first time they'd put any money or effort into the franchise when they realised it was a hit. Much better numbers (although terrible denouement). Ridiculous, but way more fun than the other two.

TERRIBLE, mind you. Still TERRIBLE. But the one I enjoyed most of the three, easy.

View PostJammerLea, on 24 April 2017 - 06:37 AM, said:

Maybe their school system is worse than mine and the seniors were kept in a separate building.


But the seniors and the rest of the student body mingle freely in the third movie.

Unless it's a new school, and Troy etc's grade were the first class of freshmen when the school opened, and so they're the first graduating class. But that's not right because Coach says that West High have beaten them in the championship game every year for 4 years. UNLESS the reason they kept getting beat was that West High's seniors were crushing the freshman team at East High?
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#25 taylor anne photo

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:47 AM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 24 April 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

RESPECTFULLY disagree. The second one was the first time they'd put any money or effort into the franchise when they realised it was a hit. Much better numbers (although terrible denouement). Ridiculous, but way more fun than the other two.

TERRIBLE, mind you. Still TERRIBLE. But the one I enjoyed most of the three, easy.

I think I always liked the 3rd one the best but I also hate this whole series a lot and that was the one that I joined my friends to see in theaters and tried to give it a chance so my cynicism was put at bay.

This still makes me hate musicals.
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#26 JammerLea

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:48 AM

There's still a lot I want to talk about, but I'm still behind on sleep from work this weekend and it's my day off so Imma go back to bed.

I will leave off that I utterly enjoyed Taylor's (the character) reaction when she found out Gabriella was smart, as she totally had that whole "Whoa, that's hot." sort of look, and we spent the rest of the movie believing she had a thing for Gabriella (Chad isn't that great, come on).

#27 CakeBug Tranch

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:50 AM

If Taylor was crushing on Gabriella and Ryan actually came out in the third movie (as he was pressuring producers to let him do), this would have been a WAY more interesting series.
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#28 tomspanks

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:50 AM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 24 April 2017 - 04:50 AM, said:

Also, will anyone be bummed if spoilers from HSM 2 and 3 come up in our discussions? I watched all three on the weekend so I'm pretty sure I'll be referring to things that happen later sometimes. Can I assume that no one here is going to be mad, like that one guy who hasn't seen 'Inception' yet and doesn't want anyone to spoil it?


Go for it!

View PostSaraK, on 24 April 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

I'm sure I could talk about props and set dressings in this movie all day, but I'd really like to just talk about Zeke. He's my absolute favorite person in this movie. Once he decides that he's coming out as a baker, he just leans into it. Doesn't seem to care at all that his friend made fun of him. Prior to him just carrying around bags of baked goods everywhere he goes, what was he doing with all of it? And where is he getting the time to bake ALL of these different things?


So, they mentioned there was free period. I wonder if he skipped free period basketball practice to sneak off to bake something?

Also, I kept thinking that in a few years, they're gonna find out that baking is "cool."

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 24 April 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

I'd say they're antagonists purely because their entire mission seems to be keeping Troy and Gabriella away from each other and thinking ONLY about the one thing. So by keeping them unhappy they are then seen as the "bad guys."


In addition, I felt like each group kind of devalued/looked down on other groups. If you're in the academic decathlon, you shouldn't waste your time with the arts - you should be studying 24/7. If you're on the basketball team, you can't participate in a sissy activity. As for Sharpay and her theater group, I'm sure they don't want jocks and nerds ruining the musical. The problem is, real high school isn't like that. I feel like the filmmakers took every high school trope and included them into the movie.

#29 taylor anne photo

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:56 AM

View Posttomspanks, on 24 April 2017 - 06:50 AM, said:

So, they mentioned there was free period. I wonder if he skipped free period basketball practice to sneak off to bake something?

Also, I kept thinking that in a few years, they're gonna find out that baking is "cool."

As soon as The Great British Baking Show hit America's radar Zeke became the most popular person.
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#30 tomspanks

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:59 AM

View PostSaraK, on 24 April 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

Also - I quickly want to mention how much I hate the drama's teacher refusal to recognize any sport terms. She sees a basketball and calls it hockey. She refuses to use the word 'team'. Its not that hard to remember basic terms.


It killed me that they made her into a villain. She's Cassie from A Chorus Line, one of the most awesomely awful movie musicals ever.

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#31 CakeBug Tranch

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:01 AM

View Posttomspanks, on 24 April 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:


It killed me that they made her into a villain. She's Cassie from A Chorus Line, one of the most awesomely awful movie musicals ever.

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#32 Cam Bert

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:03 AM

Guys, I think we're misjudging Troy a bit. We see that he loves to sing and his sensitive side by running off to his garden safe space. Now if we look at his father we now know why. His dad star high school basketball player, however after school he becomes a regular Al Bundy just clinging to that success and popularity he had as high school basket ball star. From a young age he's putting tremendous pressure on Troy to be a basketball star and protect the J. So much so when they're on a family skiing vacation on New Year's Eve he takes him to the hotel basketball court to practice. He needs him to succeed to validate his own wasted life. Maybe at an earlier age Troy showed signs of enjoying to sing but those were shot down. Then getting into East High where everybody has to stick to their lane further denied him his true passion and he was always under the thumb and eye of his dad. I feel really bad for him.
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#33 Cameron H.

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:14 AM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 24 April 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

I think it's more that that those are not the only things that T&G are passionate about and liking more than one thing just seems craaaaazy to literally everyone else. It's a shocking revelation that humans are multi-layered 3 dimensional beings! Troy is passionate about basketball and then discovers he also likes to sing but all of his basketball people are like woah does this mean you're not gonna be our star player anymore??? While Gabriella is crazy smart so Taylor (great name) thinks she'll stop studying as hard if she's busy with performing. But you don't just suddenly lose all those skills and brains just cause you just start singing like wtf people.

Also don't forget about Chad! He was a shithead too!

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 24 April 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

I think part of the issue is that Sharpay is unwilling to share the spotlight, and sees Troybriella as a threat to their dominance of the school. If Sharpay went, 'oh nice, our musical will be even better now with these two talented people', there's not much conflict to work off.


I think I'm still not getting my point across, I'll try one more time. I get why they are the "bad" guys in the fiction of this world. What I don't understand is why, as a writer, you would write three characters (I included Chad in my OP) that are following their dreams to be the bad guys in your "follow your dreams" movie.

For example, it would be like if I wrote a movie where farting is the key to happiness. Farting will make you a good person. Farting is Nirvana. And then I wrote my antagonists to be the most flatulent Farty McFart Pantses you've ever seen. It contradicts what I'm trying to say.


Does that make more sense? In the fiction, I totally get that Sharpay is jealous. I get that Chad and Taylor want Troy and Gabriela for their own agendas. What I don't get is making the three characters who have accomplished what the movie wants you to accomplish and make them the "bad" guys. This movie says, "to be happy, you need to follow your bliss." Sharpay, Chad, and Taylor are doing just that, and instead of becoming what the movie promises, they become a bunch of assholes.
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#34 CakeBug Tranch

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:17 AM

Yeah, but there's a difference between following your own bliss and messing with everyone else's bliss so that you can be the only happy farter... The meddling is what makes them unlikeable, but when they learn to accept everyone else, they're again judged on what they're good at. So Sharpay gets to dance with them at the end like she's one of the team. If she was a true villain, she'd be run out of town on a rail. BTW totally don't disagree with your points.
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#35 taylor anne photo

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:21 AM

Cameron, I understand what you're saying, but my argument is that that's not actually the mission statement of the movie! I believe the mission statement is "humans are multi-layered and can have multiple passions" but the antagonists of the movie do not believe that and try their damnedest to keep things the way they've always been, which is stick to the ONE thing you're good at and fuck the rest.

ETA: They're certainly not antagonists in the traditional sense, that's for sure, but I think because the four meddling characters are so selfish in their agendas it just happens that way. I mean Taylor's introduction is making fun of Chad for how dumb he is. That doesn't seem like the nicest of people you'd want to be around.
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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:29 AM

My notes...

*Vanessa Anne?

*Where is Zac disappearing mom!!!???... I she a magician? :P

*Who reads a book during a loud new years Eve Party? Is it possible to concentrate w/o earplugs?

The dubbed/ADRd MC dialogue is Baaaaaaad (does Zac thank him in part 2 or 3???)

They don't wish Happy New Year to each other so its a lie that they felt something in the
karaoke perfomance

View PostSaraK, on 24 April 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

Also - I have a terrible television so I watch everything with closed captioning. This exchange came up before Troy saw Gabriella at the school -

View PostCameron H., on 24 April 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

Lol--I was watching it this morning and I caught that "Pink Jelly" line for the first time. I was like (high pitched voice), "What the fuck is going on right now?"


*Did Zac get black out drunk and/or stoned at a pink k/y jelly party???

*Is Ashley Tilsdale character called Sharpay because her character is a B-word?

*Cool chorographed dance with those b-balls, Bro!

*Loved Chad multiple wristwatches

* <3 Kelsi 4 Ever <3

*Ashley did get punked in Punk'd

*The stoners of this universe are called "the skaters"???

*The Nerds And Jocks are easily convinced both to separate Zac and Vanessa and bring them back together in a little more than 10min runtime.

*A score board control system conected to the internet??

#37 CakeBug Tranch

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:30 AM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 24 April 2017 - 07:21 AM, said:

ETA: They're certainly not antagonists in the traditional sense, that's for sure, but I think because the four meddling characters are so selfish in their agendas it just happens that way. I mean Taylor's introduction is making fun of Chad for how dumb he is. That doesn't seem like the nicest of people you'd want to be around.


Yeah but that's the magic of Troybriella (I'm not letting this go, guys): when they get involved, they cause all their friends to shake off their long-held 'Status Quo' biases and by the second and third movies they've trebled their BFF pool!

Troybriella = World Peace
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#38 kateacola

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:32 AM

View PostCameron H., on 24 April 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:


For example, it would be like if I wrote a movie where farting is the key to happiness. Farting will make you a good person. Farting is Nirvana. And then I wrote my antagonists to be the most flatulent Farty McFart Pantses you've ever seen. It contradicts what I'm trying to say.

I like that farting was your go-to example
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#39 tomspanks

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:36 AM

View PostCameron H., on 24 April 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think I'm still not getting my point across, I'll try one more time. I get why they are the "bad" guys in the fiction of this world. What I don't understand is why, as a writer, you would write three characters (I included Chad in my OP) that are following their dreams to be the bad guys in your "follow your dreams" movie.

For example, it would be like if I wrote a movie where farting is the key to happiness. Farting will make you a good person. Farting is Nirvana. And then I wrote my antagonists to be the most flatulent Farty McFart Pantses you've ever seen. It contradicts what I'm trying to say.


Social identity and crowd psychology, bro. Well, for Chad, anyway. Chad doesn't want Troy, the coolest kid in the basketball team, to suddenly change groups and participate in the musical, because Chad is a non-member of that group.

It's like if the antagonist in your farting movie didn't want his friend to fart and burp.

#40 SaraK

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:36 AM

Quote

*Loved Chad multiple wristwatches


That made me laugh out loud. Chad also was never without a basketball, which I appreciated. The jock characters literally carried their priorities with them - Chad loves basketball, Zeke loves baking.

Also, random, but Troy magically changes between a track suit and basketball jersey several times in last few scenes of the movie. Why would he take the time to change before audition and/or singing with the whole group when no one else changes?