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Episode 111 - Lost in Translation vs. Marie Antoinette (w/ Stephanie Zacharek)


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Poll: Episode 111 - Lost in Translation vs. Marie Antoinette (w/Stephanie Zacharek) (57 member(s) have cast votes)

Should "Lost in Translation" or "Marie Antoinette" enter The Canon?

  1. Lost in Translation (32 votes [56.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 56.14%

  2. Marie Antoinette (25 votes [43.86%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 43.86%

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#21 brianinLR

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 09:14 AM

Marie Antoinette is one of my desert island movies so obviously voted for it. It's a visual delight and i stan for Kirsten Dunst. If you haven't read the book by Antonia Fraser and are interested it is terrific. But they made me think i should rewatch Lost in Translation. I was not impressed when it came out. It just didn't catch me. but I'll give it another shot.

#22 bleary

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 12:53 PM

This is going to end up being a much closer vote than I expected.

I also watched Marie Antoinette just for this Canon episode, and I was surprised at how great it is. It's the technically superior of the two films. I loved how the soundtrack choices were used to reflect Marie's feelings at any given moment, with the orchestral swells in the bits where she's around other royals and participating in the pomp and circumstance, and the modern music in the bits where she's just behaving as a normal (albeit spoiled) teenager. The direction in those pomp and circumstance scenes is so great, as Coppola films them like parodies of Barry Lyndon or Tom Jones. Simply put, Marie Antoinette deserves to be in the Canon as an example of how score, photography, and costuming can tell a story even better than acting or dialogue at times.

The problem is that although I appreciated those technical aspects, I really didn't connect to the story (perhaps because I've never been a teenage girl?). Meanwhile, Lost in Translation is also technically stellar, but made the story seem much more human and relatable, despite the fact that I've never been in any of those characters' situations either. It's a movie that stayed with me much longer than something like Marie Antoinette could.

So in the end, this is a tough call. If either of these movies were in a solo episode, I'd vote for either. But in this versus, I have to go with Lost in Translation.

#23 Muthsarah

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 05:42 PM

Lost in Translation is, overall, the more pleasurable visceral experience. But it has "concernful" parts that do make me feel kinda bad while watching it. Marie Antoinette is occasionally distracting, but it really strikes at my sweet spot when it doubles-down on the historicaly-accurate filmed-on-location gorgeousness.

I want to vote for them both. They're both wonderful films. But...ultimately, Lost in Translation left the bigger impact, even on re-watching. I won't say it's necessarily the better film, but it's the one that hits hardest, and is thus the more impressive. I love film as escapism above everything else, and Sofia Coppola has already made two masterpieces in that genre. But one delivers the full Sofia Coppola experience a little more than the other, and is thus a little better as an example of what's she's done so well.

It's very close, but I gotta go with Lost in Translation. And, as penance, I will buy a Blu-Ray of Marie Antoinette. It's too good for mere streaming. These are both HIGHLY dreamy films.

#24 sleepy9

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 06:00 PM

I haven't seen Lost in Translation since it was in theaters. The 'other' visual jokes made at the expense of the Japanese put me off although I acknowledge these may have been a commentary on rude american tourists. I also felt no empathy for Scarlett Johansson's characters disorientation in her golden cage having traveled extensively with a fraction of her financial means.

Marie Antoinette on the other hand cannot be interpreted as a commentary on French 18th century politics with its rabid consumerism and post punk soundtrack, it is pure fairy tail without the fairy tail ending. I think Marie Antoinette accomplishes all the sophisticated character analysis of Lost in Translation without any of its cringe worthy aspects by going harder and not bothering to be historically accurate. Marie Antoinette has a more mature vision then Lost in Translation, it knows what it wants and takes it.

#25 robert-cop

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 11:20 PM

I've never enjoyed Lost in Translation, but I assumed after this versus was announced, and even after I watched and enjoyed Marie Antoinette for the first time this week, that I would vote Lost in Translation in based on cultural importance. However, Amy's argument really won me over. Antoinette all the way.

#26 Marsellus_H

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 11:32 AM

View Postsleepy9, on 21 July 2017 - 06:00 PM, said:

Marie Antoinette on the other hand cannot be interpreted as a commentary on French 18th century politics with its rabid consumerism and post punk soundtrack, it is pure fairy tail without the fairy tail ending. I think Marie Antoinette accomplishes all the sophisticated character analysis of Lost in Translation without any of its cringe worthy aspects by going harder and not bothering to be historically accurate. Marie Antoinette has a more mature vision then Lost in Translation, it knows what it wants and takes it.


It's funny how films work on people: I've had the exactly inverse reaction to Marie Antoinette's anachronistic soundtrack and shopping montage sequence. I think it is precisely these elements that comment on French 18th century society and make it more understandable: It makes me think that self-indulgent consumerism as a form of reaction to a trapped situation always has existed.

#27 SusanV

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 02:34 PM

I want to talk about Nicholson and Zacharek together. I found the duo enchanting. Such a pleasure to hear smart commentary through the eyes of women devoted to film making and movies. This is rare and a true revelation. I found myself listening and thinking, "Yes, I know what you mean." They found points of interest in context new and old, film and reality, gender and class; and always a distinct female, yes feminist, sensibility. I have to say I liked the girlishness of their voices and laughter and pleasure together - a quality under-appreciated in general, if not downright disparaged. Nicholson picked the perfect two films and filmmaker (Sofia Coppola) for this very special episode. Obviously, I was wowed. So much so, I knew I had to figure out this convoluted website to register and post an appreciation of Amy Nicholson.

And then I wondered, 40 years ago would Amy have been a Paulette? She wasn't the girlish type, but boy could she think!