Musical Mondays Week 21 Guys and Dolls

[EvRobert 1684]

Just to compare (and again this all sparked because of the Lauren Graham discussion, but I think the reason she didn't work is because the whole production didn't work from what I've been able to see) and the best way to compare, IMO, is by comparing three different versions

 

1992 (Tony awards performance) feat. Walter Bobbie as Nicely Nicely and Nathan Lane as Nathan

[EvRobert 1684]

2016 (Oliver awards performance) feat. Gavin Spokes as Nicely Nicely and Richard Kind as Nathan

 

2009 (Tony awards performance) feat. Tituss Burgess as Nicely Nicely

 

As you can see they were trying to do a lot of different little things with this revival that I'm not sure worked totally.

[Cam Bert 8145]

Just to compare (and again this all sparked because of the Lauren Graham discussion, but I think the reason she didn't work is because the whole production didn't work from what I've been able to see) and the best way to compare, IMO, is by comparing three different versions

 

1992 (Tony awards performance) feat. Walter Bobbie as Nicely Nicely and Nathan Lane as Nathan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqkAHEGSzAU

Note sitting next to Nathan Lane in the grey suit is Ernie Sabella as Harry the Horse who was Pumba to Nathan Lane's Timon.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Note sitting next to Nathan Lane in the grey suit is Ernie Sabella as Harry the Horse who was Pumba to Nathan Lane's Timon.

I have two Ernie Sabella stories.

 

1) I got to meet Ernie Sabella years ago on Broadway when he played Amos Hart in Chicago. I was the only one who stood and applauded at the end. He noted it and said, in front of the entire theater, "Give that man a backstage tour." One of the actresses afterward said "You should make him give you the tour." Who was I to demand anything? I left later but kept thinking about it. A week or so later I went back before the show and asked for him, explaining the situation. He came out and I said "Did you mean that or was that just something people say?" He said it was just something they said, made his apologies and went back in. Nice guy though. He wasn't rude about it at all.

 

2) I had a neighbor whose daughter loved The Lion King animated movie. I told him about meeting Ernie Sabella and that we could go get his autograph. He loved that idea so we made a night of it in the big city. (I lived in Philadelphia then so NYC was just a short train ride away.) We waited at the Chicago stage door and I asked Mr. Sabella for his autograph. He was nice and happy to sign my friend's VHS box. (We pulled out the insert so the signature would last longer.) My friend thanked me for being there, saying he would have never put together the face with the voice.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I forgot I have a picture of my neighbor with Ernie Sabella

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

The Bushel and A Peck number is a fun number, it's got energy but it's also weirdly static. It moves but it doesn't. I will say though that the Sit Down You're Rocking The Boat number from this particular revival with Tituss Burgess as Nicely-Nicely does work but at the same time (at least based on the Tonys performance) suffers this same...stiffeness. Ruyon, the author whose works formed the backbone of G&D, had this weird lyrically quality to his stories. They were lowbrow but lyrical and full of tongue twisterness. I think that's why you need a show with some energy, the bodies should almost contort and be alive as much as the words, one reflecting the other. (This is me talking as a director now).

 

Just want to say that I think you've nailed it here, why the 1992 Guys and Dolls works so well but the more modern production with Lauren Graham/Tituss Burgess doesn't. It's in the staging: one is static and the other constantly moves. Check out the 1992 version of "A Bushel and a Peck," featuring Faith Prince (the star of this week's HDTGM entry The Last Dragon), who won a Tony for this role:

 

 

Look at how this is staged, how the stage picture always changes by moving the actors around and making use of the feathers and costumes. You feel like you're never looking at the same thing twice; it's electric. Same thing with their version of "Sit Down You're Rocking the Boat." It drives me nuts when I see stage shows where the directors just seem to think they can place the actors in front of the set and as long as the performances are good, their job is done. The stage movement also tells the story!

[IMAHUGEHDTGMFAN 1837]

I know that movie ideas, premises, plots and stories can be similar to an extent (Or completely copied/recycled in worst case scenarios) but who thinks its possible that the writer for 1999's "She's all That" got "Inspired" by the Bet storyline of Sky Masterson and Sgt. Sarah Brown in "Guys and Dolls"

P.S.: I saw "G&D" but this time I did not take notes and there were a lot of power and internet outages (Also I went to this epic crap game in the sewer followed by gambling rehab ) that prevented me from commenting last week... I still have a couple of things to say and maybe ill post before next week's "Bugsy Malone" discussion starts (And I have that one ready on cue)

[EvRobert 1684]

 

Just want to say that I think you've nailed it here, why the 1992 Guys and Dolls works so well but the more modern production with Lauren Graham/Tituss Burgess doesn't. It's in the staging: one is static and the other constantly moves. Check out the 1992 version of "A Bushel and a Peck," featuring Faith Prince (the star of this week's HDTGM entry The Last Dragon), who won a Tony for this role:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_nDTQ9NEzI

 

Look at how this is staged, how the stage picture always changes by moving the actors around and making use of the feathers and costumes. You feel like you're never looking at the same thing twice; it's electric. Same thing with their version of "Sit Down You're Rocking the Boat." It drives me nuts when I see stage shows where the directors just seem to think they can place the actors in front of the set and as long as the performances are good, their job is done. The stage movement also tells the story!

 

Interestingly, I was at a theater conference this weekend and at one of our round table discussions the idea of "do stars make a show" came up. I mentioned the 2009 version of G&D failing. The moderator at the table worked for the director of that show (if I had known that I might not have mentioned it) and she agreed that it was poorly directed and a disaster. She didn't go into the details as to WHY it was poorly directed.

[kateacola 2440]

I know that movie ideas, premises, plots and stories can be similar to an extent (Or completely copied/recycled in worst case scenarios) but who thinks its possible that the writer for 1999's "She's all That" got "Inspired" by the Bet storyline of Sky Masterson and Sgt. Sarah Brown in "Guys and Dolls"

 

She's All That is actually:

 

a modern adaptation of George Bernard Shaw's play Pygmalion and George Cukor's 1964 film My Fair Lady.

 

She's All That- the bet is he can make her popular/ the prom queen

My Fair Lady/ Pygmalion- the bet is to be able to teach her to speak proper English / make her presentable in high society.

 

Not to say Guys and Doll's bet was not also inspired by Pygmalion since (I think) it came first?

Pygmalion first went to stage in 1913

 

 

(Sorry for always bringing up My Fair Lady any chance I get, lol... it's one of my favs)

[SaraK 1980]

I know that movie ideas, premises, plots and stories can be similar to an extent (Or completely copied/recycled in worst case scenarios) but who thinks its possible that the writer for 1999's "She's all That" got "Inspired" by the Bet storyline of Sky Masterson and Sgt. Sarah Brown in "Guys and Dolls"

 

I thought this immediately when the bet happened.

 

Though I'm not sure if the craps game dance is better or the prom dance.

 

[EvRobert 1684]

 

I thought this immediately when the bet happened.

 

Though I'm not sure if the craps game dance is better or the prom dance.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4mQmoD72tc

That scene has always bothered me. I've been to a lot of school dances, as a high schooler, and as a DJ. First, where did Usher get that banging new track from Moby on vinyl in 1996? And second, I've never seen a whole group of people do such a complicated line dance. Sure Cha-Cha Slide, Cupid Shuffle, Copperhead Road, and Footloose look complicated but they are in reality only like 4 or 5 moves repeated. That's like 20

[IMAHUGEHDTGMFAN 1837]

That scene has always bothered me. I've been to a lot of school dances, as a high schooler, and as a DJ. First, where did Usher get that banging new track from Moby on vinyl in 1996?

 

Don't you mean "FatBoy Slim"? (Who I Musically Love) Or is that another scene that I'm not remembering right (about) now? (thefunksoulbrother)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMrIy9zm7QY

And second, I've never seen a whole group of people do such a complicated line dance. Sure Cha-Cha Slide, Cupid Shuffle, Copperhead Road, and Footloose look complicated but they are in reality only like 4 or 5 moves repeated. That's like 20

 

Yes and according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Flash_mob) the movie was like 5 years before the term Flash Mob was even a thing...

[SaraK 1980]

That scene has always bothered me. I've been to a lot of school dances, as a high schooler, and as a DJ. First, where did Usher get that banging new track from Moby on vinyl in 1996? And second, I've never seen a whole group of people do such a complicated line dance. Sure Cha-Cha Slide, Cupid Shuffle, Copperhead Road, and Footloose look complicated but they are in reality only like 4 or 5 moves repeated. That's like 20

 

Usher says "Let's do the dance I taught you", so clearly he held rehearsals for them to learn it. They probably practiced on their own.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I know this is from months ago, but it was right at the beginning of my absence from the boards (this was actually the week of the festival where I'm basically gone from all other life for a week every year), but I have things to say about the stage versions and since I apparently can't make us watch the same movie twice....

 

Just to compare (and again this all sparked because of the Lauren Graham discussion, but I think the reason she didn't work is because the whole production didn't work from what I've been able to see) and the best way to compare, IMO, is by comparing three different versions

 

1992 (Tony awards performance) feat. Walter Bobbie as Nicely Nicely and Nathan Lane as Nathan

One other notable appearance is JK Simmons as Benny Southstreet. Watching his face throughout this number is one of my favorite things. I wish I could find video of this productions "Fugue for Tinhorns" because it's a fun number, and it features Simmons a lot more.

 

2009 (Tony awards performance) feat. Tituss Burgess as Nicely Nicely

 

As you can see they were trying to do a lot of different little things with this revival that I'm not sure worked totally.

I just found this version a few weeks ago, and I totally love the choices they made with it, especially to end it as a gospel song. Part of me wishes they would have done that for the whole song because it totally makes sense. They're in a church and supposed to be attending a revival at the mission. But it's also a key, beloved song in the production, so I could see it not quite gelling with everyone if they changed it.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Oh! Another thing about this musical (there may be more to come over the next few days, as I've been thinking about this a lot and I don't mind talking into the dead thread void ) that's kind of weird on a more personal level. When I was a kid, my great grandmother would always hug and kiss my sister and me while singing "I love you a bushel and a peck, a bushel and a peck and a hug around the neck."

 

I had no idea where it was from until I saw this musical in high school. To this day, it still makes makes me REALLY uncomfortable whenever I hear the song or see Miss Adelaide and Her Chick Chick Chickadees perform it. My great grandmother was just singing a silly song while she told us how much she loved us, but everything about this number is kind of creepster town to begin with and associating it with my great grandmother just makes it that much worse.

 

ETA: my grandmother might have picked it up from the very popular Doris Day version of this song that came out in the 50s. And I also just realized that this song isn't in the film version, so here it is for anyone that has no clue wtf I'm talking about: