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Episode 178.5 - Minisode 178.5


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#41 firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 12:24 PM

View Postsycasey 2.0, on 03 January 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:


I disagree with literally everything here.


i thought you might. that's cool. clearly you have more invested with the star wars universe than i and i would never even try to make you change your mind. you loved it. that's great. i think it's a fans movie and that is one good thing about it. the fact that they would make such a big movie for fans is impressive. it just left me cold. or, judging by a re-read of my post, hot ... as in under the collar ... i definitely wont be re-watching it anytime soon

#42 sycasey 2.0

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 12:34 PM

View Postfirsttimecallerlongtimelistenr, on 03 January 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

i thought you might. that's cool. clearly you have more invested with the star wars universe than i and i would never even try to make you change your mind. you loved it. that's great. i think it's a fans movie and that is one good thing about it. the fact that they would make such a big movie for fans is impressive. it just left me cold. or, judging by a re-read of my post, hot ... as in under the collar ... i definitely wont be re-watching it anytime soon


If someone just doesn't like Star Wars, period, then I'm not going to be surprised if they don't like this movie.

I suppose the reaction that most fascinates me is from people who call themselves Star Wars fans and are downright angry about the new one. And in many cases it seems like they're angry about the new movie doing things that were almost certainly done in previous movies (including the "good" ones). It's been strange to watch.

#43 tomspanks

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 12:50 PM

View Postsycasey 2.0, on 03 January 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

If someone just doesn't like Star Wars, period, then I'm not going to be surprised if they don't like this movie.

I suppose the reaction that most fascinates me is from people who call themselves Star Wars fans and are downright angry about the new one. And in many cases it seems like they're angry about the new movie doing things that were almost certainly done in previous movies (including the "good" ones). It's been strange to watch.


Same here. The outrage - and to an extent the sense of entitlement - regarding The Last Jedi from "hard core fans" has been fascinating.

My theater experience was overwhelmingly positive - lots of laughter (at appropriate times), spontaneous applause, aww's, sniffles/tears.

#44 Cameron H.

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 01:50 PM

What I find fascinating (as someone who won't be seeing the movie until it's streaming), is that no one seems to be allowed to have an apathetic feeling regarding The Last Jedi. Either you love it (and don't recognize "Art" when they see it) or they hate it (and everyone else is being blind its many significant flaws). I feel like, once I've seen it, I feel much the way I felt when I first say TFA - that is to say, disappointed at first, but grow to like it for what it is. I just think it's weird that there's (apparently) no middle ground.
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#45 sycasey 2.0

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 01:59 PM

View PostCameron H., on 03 January 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

What I find fascinating (as someone who won't be seeing the movie until it's streaming), is that no one seems to be allowed to have an apathetic feeling regarding The Last Jedi. Either you love it (and don't recognize "Art" when they see it) or they hate it (and everyone else is being blind its many significant flaws). I feel like, once I've seen it, I feel much the way I felt when I first say TFA - that is to say, disappointed at first, but grow to like it for what it is. I just think it's weird that there's (apparently) no middle ground.


It also makes me wonder if we would have seen this same freakout for The Empire Strikes Back or The Phantom Menace or even The Star Wars Holiday Special if social media had existed in those days. Is it something about The Last Jedi specifically or just modern Internet outrage culture?

#46 taylor anne photo

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:00 PM

View PostCameron H., on 03 January 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

What I find fascinating (as someone who won't be seeing the movie until it's streaming), is that no one seems to be allowed to have an apathetic feeling regarding The Last Jedi. Either you love it (and don't recognize "Art" when they see it) or they hate it (and everyone else is being blind its many significant flaws). I feel like, once I've seen it, I feel much the way I felt when I first say TFA - that is to say, disappointed at first, but grow to like it for what it is. I just think it's weird that there's (apparently) no middle ground.

If it makes you feel better my mom said she didn't hate it but she definitely didn't like it either. She can only pinpoint two specific moments that she herself didn't like but she said overall she was just bored by the whole thing. I on the other hand can pinpoint things I didn't like but ultimately I still fall in the really liking it category.
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#47 Cameron H.

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:03 PM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 03 January 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:


If it makes you feel better my mom said she didn't hate it but she definitely didn't like it either. She can only pinpoint two specific moments that she herself didn't like but she said overall she was just bored by the whole thing. I on the other hand can pinpoint things I didn't like but ultimately I still fall in the really liking it category.


Truth be told: I think I’m alread starting to feel Star Wars fatigue :(
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#48 taylor anne photo

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:06 PM

View PostCameron H., on 03 January 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

Truth be told: I think I’m alread starting to feel Star Wars fatigue :(

I really wish they weren't doing these side stories (and I say that as a huge fan of Rogue One). I think the story becomes more meaningful when there isn't a movie coming out every single year. And now that Rian Johnson has announced this other trilogy I have to roll my eyes. I'm a huge fuckin SW fan (I've finally found the SW tattoo I want) but even this is something I don't want. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I'm going to skip the Han Solo movie. I literally don't care about what he was doing before we discovered him in that cantina. That's part of his charm!!!
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#49 joel_rosenbaum

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:26 PM

View Postsycasey 2.0, on 03 January 2018 - 01:59 PM, said:

It also makes me wonder if we would have seen this same freakout for The Empire Strikes Back or The Phantom Menace or even The Star Wars Holiday Special if social media had existed in those days. Is it something about The Last Jedi specifically or just modern Internet outrage culture?
I mean ... I was never a Star Wars guy but I did see Phantom Menace in the theater. There was a lot of hype for that movie and the immediate response was stunned silence. Then denial. Finally acceptance.

And this:



#50 Cameron H.

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:31 PM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 03 January 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:


I really wish they weren't doing these side stories (and I say that as a huge fan of Rogue One). I think the story becomes more meaningful when there isn't a movie coming out every single year. And now that Rian Johnson has announced this other trilogy I have to roll my eyes. I'm a huge fuckin SW fan (I've finally found the SW tattoo I want) but even this is something I don't want. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I'm going to skip the Han Solo movie. I literally don't care about what he was doing before we discovered him in that cantina. That's part of his charm!!!


You mean people don’t want all mystery stripped away?

I 100% agree with you. The stories that seem to stick are the ones that introduce you to a new universe, but don’t necessarily fill in all the gaps. When the Harry Potter books were coming out, my favorite part was the speculation between books.

Of course the down side to all of this is that is you end up writing the “perfect” story in your head. Consequently, it took me awhile to accept Deathly Hallows for what it was. I’m sure that’s what’s happening with TLJ. I refuse to believe it’s as good or bad as everyone is saying. I think that with time and distance people will end up falling somewhere in the middle.
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#51 sycasey 2.0

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:55 PM

View PostCameron H., on 03 January 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

You mean people don’t want all mystery stripped away?

I 100% agree with you. The stories that seem to stick are the ones that introduce you to a new universe, but don’t necessarily fill in all the gaps. When the Harry Potter books were coming out, my favorite part was the speculation between books.

Of course the down side to all of this is that is you end up writing the “perfect” story in your head. Consequently, it took me awhile to accept Deathly Hallows for what it was. I’m sure that’s what’s happening with TLJ. I refuse to believe it’s as good or bad as everyone is saying. I think that with time and distance people will end up falling somewhere in the middle.


I suspect that over time people will come to see this as the best of the post-Lucas movies (though that also depends on what else is made after this), and that's based on the critical reaction being much more positive than the divided "angry fan" reaction. Usually that bodes well for the future. It is probably not the best Star Wars movie overall; the OT has yet to be dethroned, and probably will never be.

That said, I think you are right that the big issue is the difference between the actual movie and the "perfect" one that people had written in their heads.

#52 tomspanks

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:40 PM

View PostCameron H., on 03 January 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

What I find fascinating (as someone who won't be seeing the movie until it's streaming), is that no one seems to be allowed to have an apathetic feeling regarding The Last Jedi. Either you love it (and don't recognize "Art" when they see it) or they hate it (and everyone else is being blind its many significant flaws). I feel like, once I've seen it, I feel much the way I felt when I first say TFA - that is to say, disappointed at first, but grow to like it for what it is. I just think it's weird that there's (apparently) no middle ground.


Well, my husband didn't exactly love it, but I'm not mad.
Spoiler


View Postsycasey 2.0, on 03 January 2018 - 01:59 PM, said:

It also makes me wonder if we would have seen this same freakout for The Empire Strikes Back or The Phantom Menace or even The Star Wars Holiday Special if social media had existed in those days. Is it something about The Last Jedi specifically or just modern Internet outrage culture?


Do...people hate Empire Strikes Back?

#53 Cameron H.

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:46 PM

View Posttomspanks, on 03 January 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

Do...people hate Empire Strikes Back?


I think he means the “No, I am your father” bit. It’s so ingrained in pop culture that it’s become a cliche, but I’m sure it was divisive at the time. Was he lying? If he’s telling the truth, why was Obi-Wan lying? I like it. I hate it. Given the ability to connect and argue with people over social media, I think that scene might have had the potential to “break the Internet.”
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#54 sycasey 2.0

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:57 PM

View PostCameron H., on 03 January 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

I think he means the “No, I am your father” bit. It’s so ingrained in pop culture that it’s become a cliche, but I’m sure it was divisive at the time. Was he lying? If he’s telling the truth, why was Obi-Wan lying? I like it. I hate it. Given the ability to connect and argue with people over social media, I think that scene might have had the potential to “break the Internet.”


Precisely. People love Empire now, but given some of the upheaval it did to the Star Wars universe at the time, I wouldn't have been surprised to see an extremely split reaction among fans. It's also tonally and structurally very different from A New Hope and leaves a lot unresolved at the end. Apply that to the current Twitter environment and you might see something very similar to the current Last Jedi battles.

#55 grudlian.

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:11 PM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 03 January 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

If it makes you feel better my mom said she didn't hate it but she definitely didn't like it either. She can only pinpoint two specific moments that she herself didn't like but she said overall she was just bored by the whole thing. I on the other hand can pinpoint things I didn't like but ultimately I still fall in the really liking it category.

I feel kind of similar to your mom about it. I can point out some stuff I didn't like (and I'll second firsttimecallerlongtimelistnr that the humor felt way more forced than TFA
Spoiler
). I can name way more things that I appreciate about it. But I'm still very whatever about the whole movie to be honest. If people didn't bring up Star Wars everywhere, I wouldn't be thinking about it at all.

I'd liken my reaction to seeing some big important classic movie that doesn't age well. I get it. I see why it was important, but ehhhhh. I'm sure I'll appreciate it more on a rewatch.

View PostCameron H., on 03 January 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

Truth be told: I think I’m alread starting to feel Star Wars fatigue :(

That's pretty rough since you haven't even seen the newest one.

#56 taylor anne photo

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:15 PM

View Postgrudlian., on 03 January 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

(and I'll second firsttimecallerlongtimelistnr that the humor felt way more forced than TFA
Spoiler
).

Maaan I was really hoping that wasn't gonna be the part you mentioned cause I thought that was hilarious lol!
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#57 sycasey 2.0

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:32 PM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 03 January 2018 - 04:15 PM, said:

Maaan I was really hoping that wasn't gonna be the part you mentioned cause I thought that was hilarious lol!


Yeah, I thought that was perfect for putting you right in the space where this movie wanted to live. Obviously not everyone could get on board.

#58 Cameron H.

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:43 PM

View Postgrudlian., on 03 January 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

.

That's pretty rough since you haven't even seen the newest one.


I think it's more how it feels endless now. It used to be special. You had to wait more than a decade for a new Trilogy (and three years between installments). I think the proliferation of movies has diluted the brand. Like Taylor said, I think the announcement of the new Rian Johnson trilogy is what broke me. It's not that I don't think future movies won't be good, it's more that they've lost their shine. I also fear for anyone trying to make a Sci-fi movie that's *not* a Star Wars tie-in. We've been given the keys to the candy shop...and we're going to get sick.
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#59 grudlian.

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 04:51 PM

View Postsycasey 2.0, on 03 January 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:


Yeah, I thought that was perfect for putting you right in the space where this movie wanted to live. Obviously not everyone could get on board.

I disagree because I feel the movie, for the most part tried to be very weighty and serious. It felt, to me, that Rian Johnson would occasionally go "This has been serious for too many minutes. Better throw in a joke." It switched gears between dark brooding and humor very abruptly. Except Finn who always felt natural with his humor and can do no wrong.

I don't know. Maybe I'm being a bit hard on it. I definitely get why people love the movie way way way more than the nerds who are angry over it not being exactly what they dreamed it to be.

EDIT: This is making feel like a real nerd rage dork over this and I swear I'm mostly positive about The Last Jedi.

#60 sycasey 2.0

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 05:00 PM

View Postgrudlian., on 03 January 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

I disagree because I feel the movie, for the most part tried to be very weighty and serious. It felt, to me, that Rian Johnson would occasionally go "This has been serious for too many minutes. Better throw in a joke." It switched gears between dark brooding and humor very abruptly. Except Finn who always felt natural with his humor and can do no wrong.


I would argue that the original trilogy are a lot like this. The jokes were more old-fashioned vaudeville than modern snark but they definitely swung back and forth between comedy and weighty drama.