
Episode 139 - The NeverEnding Story (w/ Dave Nadelberg)
#1
Posted 29 January 2018 - 12:05 AM
#2
Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:44 AM
#3
Posted 29 January 2018 - 10:20 AM
I do remember reading the book after watching the movie, and being very surprised at how different it was.
#4
Posted 29 January 2018 - 12:56 PM
#6
Posted 29 January 2018 - 01:32 PM
My relationship to it has been interesting. I had vague memories of seeing it as a child, but it wasn't a formative experience for me or anything. I saw it again in my late 20s after some friends talked about how much they loved it, and found myself taken with the creative visual spectacle and the drama of the final scenes, with the Empress turning to the audience as she implores Bastian to use his imagination and save Fantasia. Its dark, grim nature also struck me as something unusual. It's very obviously German, about as nihilistic as you can get while remaining marketable to American family audiences.
After this week's rewatch I thought it fell a bit short of Canon status, for many of the reasons Dave laid out in the podcast episode: the arcs don't carry from scene to scene, and a lot of the individual challenges feel arbitrary, like they were just placed down in front of the hero at random, not to test a specific part of his character. That said, the visual creativity is still well on display, and the themes about the importance of imagination still hold up, so it's not exactly a failure either. It's just . . . not quite Canon. Sorry, Amy.
#7
Posted 29 January 2018 - 05:02 PM
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#8
Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:24 PM
To me, THE NEVERENDING STORY never quite whisks me away with its fantasy and themes. It could be that the budget, (perhaps was impressive for a German production at the time), seems to limit Fantasia from ever completely feeling like a real place and setting. There are some great characters in there (i too consider The Rock Biter to be my favorite), but too me, a Henson devotee, so many of the creatures and locations seem to be lacking a soul. It's appropriate that the villain of the story is "The Nothing" because so much of this film looks like Nothing to me. LABYRINTH undeniably has its problems and I did not vote for it to be allowed into The Canon, but one thing that it always succeeded at with me was creating a world that I felt would have existed even if the movie wasn't there to tell its story. The concept of creating a world through a descriptive book and having a boy fall into the fantasy that way is an excellent one, but we all know a film that achieves this idea significantly better. And while I would never let this fact alone keep me from casting a Yes vote, I did read THE NEVERENDING STORY at a young age and was incredibly fond of that book. It being undeniably superior is more praise for the book than a knock on the film, but I am cursed with having that to compare it to. It's not that I miss specifically what's missing from the book in the film, but it doesn't give me the same emotional catharsis that I got while reading it.
I do appreciate this film a bit more now, and was fully preparing to come down hard on it before I watched it and listened to the episode, but instead I'm gonna have to give a soft but definitive NO on allowing THE NEVERENDING STORY into The Canon. Now I think I might have to go rewatch Will Vinton's THE ADVENTURES OF MARK TWAIN, because Dave name dropping it in the episode has made me think of little else since hearing it. I wouldn't vote that into The Canon either, but I sure do enjoy it. And that's... ok.
#9
Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:55 PM
It's great to see on-screen fantasy creations that draw from a more Mittel-European well than just riffing on Tolkien and his compatriots, but that's window dressing, not core narrative.
Speaking of Tolkien, TNE lacks his painstaking worldbuilding, but also never stretches far enough into the other direction into creating a dreamlike, Id-driven phantasmagoria; instead, it kind of squats in the middle, with its underlying rules being arbitrary, but not cleaving to anything recognisable as either dream-logic or fairy-tale-logic. The film never quite takes the final necessary plunge into the collective unconscious to dredge up universal signifiers and abstractions that resonate with the viewer; instead, with a few notable exceptions (lookin' at you, Gmork), its creatures and cultures feel haphazard and, while frequently striking, sort of bereft of symbolic purpose.
Frankly, everything TNE is trying to do thematically, Labyrinth does better (and with a better soundtrack!), and if Henson's film doesn't make the grade, Petersen's effort has no chance to my mind.
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#10
Posted 29 January 2018 - 11:11 PM
Side note: I'm not sure if a Kids' Canon would be a great idea, or a terrible one.
Other side note: If you're ever in Vancouver and want a quick tour of some of the filming locations, hit me up. (But bear in mind that some of those alleys tend to smell like piss these days.)
#12
Posted 30 January 2018 - 07:16 AM
#13
Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:09 AM
#14
Posted 30 January 2018 - 11:36 AM
I still love the practical effects, character design and general weirdness but I'd rather see something with fleshed out characters and a story other than "boring kid bumbles through the plot until magical deus ex machina" (c.f. Harry Potter, Star Wars, Hunger Games, etc.). I'm voting "no".
#16
Posted 31 January 2018 - 01:32 PM

#17
Posted 31 January 2018 - 07:24 PM
However, should not go in the Canon.
The problem is that it's not very well made. It's very enjoyable, very memorable, has some really good scenes, but ignores things like pacing and plot too easily. The main character is uninteresting, the luck dragon is awesome, but the CGI flying scenes really don't hold up (they could have done less to better effect right?), and the ending is unfulfilling even if it is enjoyable. My kids genuinely whooped with delight as they chased down those bullies. But as an end to the film it ties up nothing, it's a great scene, but not cohesive.
Putting aside the question of whether it's better than the book, or faithful to the book, I would ask a simple question. Could this film be better made then or now? I think the answer is yes on both counts. Its flaws don't make it better, they are flaws. So no canon for me.
#18
Posted 01 February 2018 - 11:05 AM
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#19
Posted 02 February 2018 - 09:05 AM
Most overcompensated their lack of character, direction and story with top-notch production design, costumes, makeup and visual effects with few exceptions. THE NEVERENDING STORY is not one of them. Said exceptions include the likes of CONAN THE BARBARIAN, EXCALIBUR, TIME BANDITS and THE PRINCESS BRIDE - all great films that broke the mold.
I must confess THE NEVERENDING STORY was never apart of my childhood growing up in the decade. But I am going to throw my vote to "Yes" out of pure admiration and respect to Amy.
#20
Posted 04 February 2018 - 01:48 AM
I guess it's doomed at this point, but I only see it as canon worthy in terms of its nostalgia value.
NOT just as what I associate with a better time.
Rather, just that I went through life with some not-fully-conscious awareness of creepy moments. It was just whimsical enough fro me and also creepy in the vein of "The last Unicorn," "The Hobbit," "Labyrinth," Little Nemo" and all Bluth cartoons.
It matters than I saw it at a time when I didn't fully understand stories, or didn't retain them, and only internalized the creepy, whimsical moments, and that had some effect on my life outlook.
I think the Canon of film could benefit from being able to demonstrate to futurlings that the Millennial generation grew up with memories of practical effects used in terrifying, magical ways that made them the way they are. I mean, maybe we became so sarcastic and entitled yet pessimistic because we saw sphinx boobs and equine mud-drownings. Or whatever.