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Episode 187 - Beautiful Creatures


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#41 tomspanks

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 06:25 PM

View Postjoel_rosenbaum, on 27 April 2018 - 06:02 PM, said:

Thank God they didn't have a plotline involving the Holy Roman Empire...


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#42 Ryan Sz

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 06:31 PM

View Posttomspanks, on 27 April 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:


The underground railroad was not literally underground. It was not a railroad either.

I get that but there have been many historical finds over the years that show at least a few tunnels did exist, though they were usually small, connecting a few houses or to an area outside of a village. And with how loose this movie was in handling historical accuracy in recreations and history class, I would not have put it past them to make that reference.
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#43 gigitastic

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 06:57 PM

When the one eyed teacher says "That hat will look good on my cat" I think he means just that.
Clearly the teacher is also an overly devoted cat person and he takes things from his students and gives them to his cat. I'm dying to see what else his cat wears / owns now. Like does the cat get anything confiscated from the students? Think how many cell phones that cat has.

#44 Fister Roboto

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:00 PM

View Postgigitastic, on 27 April 2018 - 06:57 PM, said:

When the one eyed teacher says "That hat will look good on my cat" I think he means just that.
Clearly the teacher is also an overly devoted cat person and he takes things from his students and gives them to his cat. I'm dying to see what else his cat wears / owns now. Like does the cat get anything confiscated from the students? Think how many cell phones that cat has.

I mean...that hat would definitely look better on anything non-human.
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#45 gigitastic

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:01 PM

View PostFister Roboto, on 27 April 2018 - 07:00 PM, said:

I mean...that hat would definitely look better on anything non-human.

Exactly.
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#46 tomspanks

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:22 PM

View PostRyan Sz, on 27 April 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

I get that but there have been many historical finds over the years that show at least a few tunnels did exist, though they were usually small, connecting a few houses or to an area outside of a village. And with how loose this movie was in handling historical accuracy in recreations and history class, I would not have put it past them to make that reference.


Nah, the tunnels in the movie weren't some small segments connecting 2 houses. Viola Davis said that they run under "the whole country."

#47 grudlian.

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:45 PM

View Postgigitastic, on 27 April 2018 - 06:57 PM, said:

When the one eyed teacher says "That hat will look good on my cat" I think he means just that.
Clearly the teacher is also an overly devoted cat person and he takes things from his students and gives them to his cat. I'm dying to see what else his cat wears / owns now. Like does the cat get anything confiscated from the students? Think how many cell phones that cat has.

As the resident crazy cat person here, my reaction to this was "We don't do this...I do have an old cell phone I don't use. Could I download some cat friendly apps for them to play with when I'm gone?"

#48 Cameron H.

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:47 PM

View PostFister Roboto, on 27 April 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

So, I finally got around to watching this right now. It's the opening voiceover, and I already hate everything happening.

"I can understand why young men signed up for the Civil War."

This is gonna be a long-ass two hours.


Yeah, but that line doesn’t mean he wants to bring back slavery or something. It means that when people have nothing going on in their lives, and everything seems pointless, they have a tendency to grasp for something - anything - that might give their life purpose. The danger is, out of this desperation, people can be easily tempted to follow the wrong path. That line establishes that he’s insightful enough to recognize why the people in his town are the way they are. It also conveys how, in a weird way, he wishes he could find the same sense of purpose that they get from their Religion or Re-enactments, he just can’t. He’s not advocating for the Confederacy. He’s saying the exact opposite. He’s saying that while he’s envious that the people around him have managed to cobble together some sort of meaning out of their lives, he won’t allow himself to fall into - what he sees as - a pit of complacent ignorance. He’s saying that he’s not going to be a part of their cult. This is why Macon’s spell is so upsetting. It’s forces him to face the (very real) reality that, in the end, they might actually win, and he might succumb to his town’s narrow-mindedness.
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#49 gigitastic

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:51 PM

View Postgrudlian., on 27 April 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

As the resident crazy cat person here, my reaction to this was "We don't do this...I do have an old cell phone I don't use. Could I download some cat friendly apps for them to play with when I'm gone?"


As another crazy cat person there are in fact apps made for cats. My cats are too lazy to use them though.

#50 gigitastic

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 07:55 PM

Ok am i crazy or is there a bit where Southern Fried Fuck Boi asks Lena if she can make his dick grow when he's crawling out the window of her house? She makes that vine grow and he gets all excited and asks if she can make anything else grow. I assume he's asking her to make his dick bigger... right?

#51 Elektra Boogaloo

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 08:15 PM

View Posttomspanks, on 27 April 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:

I thought you were gonna be more offended that they called Jeremy Irons the poor man’s Alan Rickman...

I felt it was far IN THIS INSTANCE. Rickman was Snape and Irons was... in this nonsense. So he loses. But of course, no disrespect to my dearly departed Alan Rickman, but he was not Scar in the "Lion King" which is my most vivid association with Mr. Irons (even though he has chosen to be in dreck like this and "Batman vs Superman" in his later years) because I had a hat with his character that said

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that i wore on many a family vacation as a child.

#52 muttnik

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 09:14 PM

View PostThe Triple Lindy, on 27 April 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

Did anyone else suffer from Emmy Rossum face-blindness? It took me a while to realize that Ridley, the girl in the flashback (where she kills the guy with the train), and the red-eyed girl in the black and purple Sweeney Todd seance dress were all the same people. Then I look up a picture of her IRL and I still don't really recognize her.


Sometimes I confuse her with Kat Dennings, but I adore them both so it's a win-win for me either way. I definitely know the Chrises though. If only that were a paying skill.

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 09:49 PM

View PostCameron H., on 27 April 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

Yeah, but that line doesn’t mean he wants to bring back slavery or something.

Oh, believe me, I didn't think that. This movie has zero historical perspective on the Civil War. I was just rolling my eyes for pretty much the whole opening voiceover...and it didn't get much better after that. At least Emma Thompson knew everything she was saying was ridiculous and leaned waaaaay into it. Everything else just did not work for me. I had to rewatch a couple scenes during the last act because I had just totally checked out.
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#54 Jerzy Bondov

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 12:11 AM

For anyone who read the book, is there a bigger part (or frankly any part) for Ethan’s father? My quick Wikipedia research reflects that the father actually had a name and that he was a novelist, like Ethan’s mother. However, given the father’s absence from the movie, I thought that there were a couple of points in the film where they were going to suggest that Uncle Macon was Ethan’s father. Of course, this would make Ethan and Lena first cousins.

#55 joel_rosenbaum

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 03:00 AM

View PostElektra Boogaloo, on 27 April 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

I felt it was far IN THIS INSTANCE. Rickman was Snape and Irons was... in this nonsense. So he loses. But of course, no disrespect to my dearly departed Alan Rickman, but he was not Scar in the "Lion King" which is my most vivid association with Mr. Irons

As grudlian pointed out earlier, the comparison has to be between Die Hard and Die Hard With a Vengeance. Vengeance isn't bad -- it's probably the best of the sequels -- but it's nowhere near the caliber of Die Hard. And Rickman is arguably the best part of that movie.

Also, Jeremy Irons is a douchebag.

#56 Cameron H.

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 03:18 AM

View PostJerzy Bondov, on 28 April 2018 - 12:11 AM, said:

For anyone who read the book, is there a bigger part (or frankly any part) for Ethan’s father? My quick Wikipedia research reflects that the father actually had a name and that he was a novelist, like Ethan’s mother. However, given the father’s absence from the movie, I thought that there were a couple of points in the film where they were going to suggest that Uncle Macon was Ethan’s father. Of course, this would make Ethan and Lena first cousins.


I have read the book, but it’s been awhile and I really don’t remember any specifics.

Basically, in the movie, after Ethan’s mother died, his father completely checks out. His absence in the movie is intentional. He’s more of a presence than a character. In a lot of ways, Ethan would have been better off had his father died, too. So now, this 16-year-old kid feels saddled with with the responsibility of caring for his father. He wants to leave Gatlin, but he also feels guilty for wanting to leave. Deep down he’s scared that because of his father, he’ll never do the things he wants to do and that he will end up resenting him for it - which makes him feel even more guilty.

What I don’t understand is that his friend says he wants to drive by the sanitarium to see his mother (Emma Thompson) before they leave town. This is not only tragic, but it suggests little old Gatlin has a place for people to go who have suffered breakdowns. I wonder why Ethan and Amma never had his father admitted there while he dealt with his grief. It seems weird that they were like, “ Yeah, there’s a place in town specifically made to deal with this kind of thing, but no worries, we got this...”
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#57 joel_rosenbaum

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 03:20 AM

View PostCameron H., on 27 April 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

Yeah, but that line doesn’t mean he wants to bring back slavery or something. It means that when people have nothing going on in their lives, and everything seems pointless, they have a tendency to grasp for something - anything - that might give their life purpose.

Cameron, you do the film a lot of justice with this description, but I don't think it deserves it. That explanation works in the context of the scene but why invoke the Civil War in the first place? My interpretation is that the book (assuming that it's from the source material) is recycling the same, tired Lost Cause mythology that you still too often encounter in popular culture. This is a lazy movie! I'm assuming it's a lazily written book, too. The literary references alone -- Kurt Vonnegut, Henry Miller, and William Carlos Williams in the first scene alone -- were endlessly irritating.

#58 Cameron H.

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 04:12 AM

View Postjoel_rosenbaum, on 28 April 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

Cameron, you do the film a lot of justice with this description, but I don't think it deserves it. That explanation works in the context of the scene but why invoke the Civil War in the first place? My interpretation is that the book (assuming that it's from the source material) is recycling the same, tired Lost Cause mythology that you still too often encounter in popular culture. This is a lazy movie! I'm assuming it's a lazily written book, too. The literary references alone -- Kurt Vonnegut, Henry Miller, and William Carlos Williams in the first scene alone -- were endlessly irritating.


First of all, the movie is nothing like the book. There are zero literary references in it. The book is way worse.

That line actually is after he’s complained about how the dumb people keep re-enacting the Civil War “like it’s going to turn out different.” He goes on to complain about how slow it is to change, that they have more churches than libraries, and too many banned books. The full quote Fister was referencing is: “I can understand why young men
signed up for the Civil War. Anything is better than a life standing still.”

I don’t really want to make any assumptions, but has anyone here ever lived in a truly small town? I haven’t, but I’ve been to my fair share. I’ve met people who’ve joined the military just to get out of their one stoplight town. It’s fucking bleak. The Battle of Honey Hill is literally the only significant thing to ever occur in Gatlin. And since then, as Ethan states, no one has ever really left. I feel like this is just as tragic a start for your protagonist as having him raised in a cupboard under the stairs - except more people can actually relate to it.

As far as the “Lost Cause,” I don’t think this is on display here. It’s not Gone With the Wind longing for a glorious past, or even The Searchers where Union soldiers are mocked as being cowardly and ineffectual. Most of the characters, at least the good characters, don’t want anything to do with the Civil War or it’s re-enactments. They want to watch Aliens instead. Most of the places Ethan wants to go are up North.

The only reason the Civil War is invoked at all is to provide a metaphor for the internal (Good vs. Evil) and external wars (family strife) that Ethan and Lena are facing.

Sorry for any typos. I’m cooking breakfast :)
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#59 grudlian.

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 04:50 AM

View Postjoel_rosenbaum, on 28 April 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

Also, Jeremy Irons is a douchebag.

Oh, man. I couldn't even watch this whole thing.

View PostCameron H., on 28 April 2018 - 03:18 AM, said:

What I don’t understand is that his friend says he wants to drive by the sanitarium to see his mother (Emma Thompson) before they leave town. This is not only tragic, but it suggests little old Gatlin has a place for people to go who have suffered breakdowns. I wonder why Ethan and Anna never had his father admitted there while he dealt with his grief. It seems weird that they were like, “ Yeah, there’s a place in town specifically made to deal with this kind of thing, but no worries, we got this...”

I can come up with some plausible scenarios for this but I don't remember this scene at all (I really checked out once I realised this guy was Han Solo). My understanding of character relationships is also kind of sketchy. For example, is Anna Viola Davis and is she related to Ethan?


#60 Ryan Sz

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 04:55 AM

View Postjoel_rosenbaum, on 28 April 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

As grudlian pointed out earlier, the comparison has to be between Die Hard and Die Hard With a Vengeance. Vengeance isn't bad -- it's probably the best of the sequels -- but it's nowhere near the caliber of Die Hard. And Rickman is arguably the best part of that movie.

I don't know, for me there pretty evenly matched. Vengeance had a lot better chemistry between Bruce Willis and Samuel L Jackson rather than Willis and the dad from Family Matters. While the original Die Hard had much better gunfights since it was in an enclosed area of Nakatomi Plaza and they couldn't realistically do that in open New York, the tension and suspense was better handled in Vengeance. Although revealing Irons was Rickman's brother was shoehorned and ham fisted.

Also, maybe we not have towns not named Gatlin anymore because nothing good ever seems to happen there.

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