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Cameron H.

Musical Mondays Week 40 La La Land

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I should say, its not just the loss of contact that I felt like five years was too short for. It was everything that apparently happened in five years. I know there aren't a ton of things happening really, but her wildly successful career and his club, combined with her new relationship and child and losing contact with Seb, I just feel like five years wasn't a ton of time for all of that to happen.

 

But then again, weirder things have happened. My friend had three kids in five years, so I mean a lot can happen in five years. It just sounds short.

Yeah, agreed. She's walking around like she's Judi Dench or someone, but really she can't have been in any more than a handful of films in five years. She's walking with an affected gravitas that seems unearned.

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I finally saw La La Land again... And I will be posting about it in 3 hours or less (and also quoting your posts lol) just wanted to say that I'm on team keep the intro and that the movie was ambitious but it didn't work nearly as well as Whiplash did...

 

Damien wanted to include/rip off/pay homage to elements from Requiem for a Dream and Casablanca (specially the endings of those movies) but because the characters felt so hypocritical by the end or at least they "act" like they are in Hollywood working to make their dreams come true but they don't enjoy the journey nor the outcome and they don't own up to their mistakes (I will elaborate in a future post) by the audience feels a lot like Sebs sister and that's not a good feeling overall...

 

I'm gonna gather my notes and brb

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I should say, its not just the loss of contact that I felt like five years was too short for. It was everything that apparently happened in five years. I know there aren't a ton of things happening really, but her wildly successful career and his club, combined with her new relationship and child and losing contact with Seb, I just feel like five years wasn't a ton of time for all of that to happen.

 

But then again, weirder things have happened. My friend had three kids in five years, so I mean a lot can happen in five years. It just sounds short.

I totally agree it sounds short until you are actually living it. I mean I'm actually the one that should be arguing on the same side as y'all because I just blinked and suddenly I've been at my job for 5 years and Idk how that happened, but then you look at the career of Jennifer Lawrence who may have been a working actress as a teenager but until she got Winter's Bone was considered a nobody and then overnight became this MASSIVE star. In 5 years she was nominated for 3 Oscars, won 1, was the lead in a giant YA franchise, and a co-lead in a massive well-known comic franchise, as well as going from engaged to single to allegedly dating so many people lmao. That seems like a hell of a lot for 5 years!

 

Emma's career definitely didn't have as much of a seemingly overnight success as JLaw's did, but she did one TV movie and 4 episodes of 4 separate shows before getting Superbad and 5 years after that she was Gwen Stacy in The Amazing Spider-Man so things did go pretty fast after that.

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Yeah, agreed. She's walking around like she's Judi Dench or someone, but really she can't have been in any more than a handful of films in five years. She's walking with an affected gravitas that seems unearned.

I guess it just depends on what those films were...

 

lnmuhRJ.jpg

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I guess it just depends on what those films were...

 

I guess Hollywood moves fast! I would never have guessed all those movies were in the same five year period.

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I guess it just depends on what those films were...

 

lnmuhRJ.jpg

But she's very clearly positioned as being a 'prestige film' type of actress. From the way she's put together, Mia hasn't been the voice of a dog in Marmaduke. She did the experimental film in Paris and aside from the second poster (what was on that? anyone remember?) we don't know. She might have done a bunch but like everyone keeps saying, they don't show us so it doesn't exist. Heck, I'm surprised Damian Chazelle didn't have her dragging an Oscar around in her purse.

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But she's very clearly positioned as being a 'prestige film' type of actress. From the way she's put together, Mia hasn't been the voice of a dog in Marmaduke. She did the experimental film in Paris and aside from the second poster (what was on that? anyone remember?) we don't know. She might have done a bunch but like everyone keeps saying, they don't show us so it doesn't exist. Heck, I'm surprised Damian Chazelle didn't have her dragging an Oscar around in her purse.

That's my point. It's the type of films she's doing that give her this stardom. That's why I mentioned JLaw too because in the same time frame and at a year and nine months younger Jennifer is at a much different level than I would have said Emma was at until Emma just got her Oscar for this. Being nominated for Oscars and doing movies that are held at a higher esteem will definitely put you on a certain trajectory. I showed Emma's 5 years span from when she did her first theatrical to show how she became this "girl next door" darling from all these movies she had done, but I bet if she had been in Winter's Bone instead of Superbad her life would be crazy different.

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No, but it is correct that sitting back and waiting to be 'discovered' is an exponentially worse way of going about making a career. I counsel my graduating students all the time that work begets work, and always point them towards Fringe NY or the like, just to get work up and running, because it's about the hustle and the networking that happens after the shows that gives you a shot at being seen in something bigger. I think EvRobert has the right attitude towards making things happen by continuing to write things that are fulfilling, even if the waiting and the rejection is harder to take. But I have friends in their 40's who are still waiting tables, convinced that they will 'make it' one day but are not willing to hustle to make it happen. I have some incredibly talented friends back home who were not willing to do the work and are still doing the tiny gigs, whereas another one of my friends, never the most talented of us all but the hardest-working, is now a global superstar, playing arenas. So much of this industry is about not giving up and letting everyone else drop away around you, and creating work (in Seb's parlance, gigging or working as a session musician rather than auditioning) is definitely the smartest approach. He over-simplifies, but he also recommends she does something that is good for her soul. And it's the advice that changed her life, because, well, work begets work. And as someone who has also written a bunch of scripts that will likely never be seen, I think you'll agree with me, EvRobert, that it's less about the production and more about the personal catharsis of writing that is the point.

 

SPOT ON!

 

I think no matter what you're doing you gotta get out and hustle, weather that's a Fringe fest or just submitting to any and every opportunity you can.

 

There's a great article I just read that was about the stigma actors who are working in (not to bring this back to Last 5 Years but ya'know) a regional theater in Cleveland have. There was a review in a Philly paper about a play set in Philly that premiered and was work shopped and developed in Philly and went on to Broadway. The reviewer (again for a Philly paper) said "well I can't ever imagine this being done by non-NY actors. So instead of having great actors scattered across the US with training, many actors, still slave away waiting tables, convinced they are going to make it, instead of moving to a Philly or Cleveland, or Kansas City or somewhere where they actually CAN make it.

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No, he doesn't say 'blow it off', he says 'you can do that there', which she could. Taylor's right about all the legwork she'd need to do in the run-up, and i already said he didn't phrase it correctly, but I don't waver from my conviction that his intentions were good.

 

1000%

 

We see that she’s lonely and she misses him. She has just gotten off the phone saying as much. The problem isn’t rehearsing for her show. The problem is she just learned that the rest of their potential future together was going to be spent with him not being around. She’s disappointed and she’s being petty in retaliation. (“You don’t want to be in that band anyway...”)

 

The whole point of that scene is they’re not communicating effectively.

 

I guess I feel like Seb is getting a raw deal here. He can be a jerk, but he’s in no way a bad guy. I feel like the idea that he’s not supportive is absurd. He sees her potential and encourages it. He workshops her play with her. And as CakeBug brought up, she quits her job to work on her play and is staying (presumably) rent free in his apartment.

 

The only time he isn’t there for her is at her show. Which, admittedly, is a big deal, but...he *was* going to go - even after she stormed out of the apartment. Hell, they probably hadn’t even spoken since that night and he was *still* going to go. I mean, had they not had that fight and had her show been successful, I doubt she would have been that mad. Disappointed? Sure. But if he told her what happened, she probably would have understood.

 

Then, after she breaks up with him, he drives to another state and tracks her down just from the stories she’s told him about her life. He could have just hung up on that casting agent and been like, “Fuck her.” A lot of people would. The fact of the matter is, she wouldn’t be a famous star if he didn’t get over the petty bullshit. She earned it through her talent, yes, but her talent doesn’t mean shit if she doesn’t know about the offer.

 

And then, after ALL THAT, when she asks him where they are (obviously willing to get back together), even though he wants to be with her, he tells her “no” because she needs to pursue her dream with her whole heart and he knows he’d just be in the way.

 

But, please, tell me more about how selfish he is...

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But, please, tell me more about how selfish he is...

giphy.gif

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giphy.gif

 

If you like, I could also bring up that the money she’s living on is the money he’s earning by giving up on his own dreams - literally putting her dreams before his own.

 

I mean, I COULD say that, but I probably won’t. :)

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I guess I feel like Seb is getting a raw deal here.

Okay on my part of this conversation never did I try to say that Seb is ever fully at fault. This is a clear example of it takes two people to make and break a relationship, but a lot of the comments have been about how HER reactions were shitty when his were just as shitty. We can fully support where Seb is coming from in that conversation without then tearing down where Mia is coming from because BOTH of their views are completely valid.

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a lot of the comments have been about how HER reactions were shitty when his were just as shitty

Yep, mostly from me, because I was starting to get irked about the Seb-bashing when Mia's no prize, either. I am mostly just trying to unpack a lot of these moments from multiple angles, before this turned into the crucifixion of Sebastian thread. I like both of these characters plenty, but he's been taking a pounding, so I thought I would look at her with a little more scrutiny. In their end, they're both horrible garbage people. ;)

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Yep, mostly from me, because I was starting to get irked about the Seb-bashing when Mia's no prize, either. I am mostly just trying to unpack a lot of these moments from multiple angles, before this turned into the crucifixion of Sebastian thread. I like both of these characters plenty, but he's been taking a pounding.

But separate from their relationship, Seb is the more infuriating of the two, and you have to allow us to process those opinions. And I stand by a lot of what I said because I still don't see as much personality from Mia as I did Seb because so much of what we see about her is influenced by him.

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We see that she’s lonely and she misses him. She has just gotten off the phone saying as much. The problem isn’t rehearsing for her show. The problem is she just learned that the rest of their potential future together was going to be spent with him not being around. She’s disappointed and she’s being petty in retaliation. (“You don’t want to be in that band anyway...”)

 

I don't see her response as petty at all. She asks him when he's going to be home, and he says that they tour to afford another album and then record another album so they can tour. And that's when she says, "So you're in it for the long haul?" She's asking if this is something he's willing to commit to because for the whole rest of the movie, he's been complaining about how he doesn't want to do it.

 

The only person I see being petty in this convo is Seb when he tells her she only liked him when he was failing because it made her feel better about herself. Which is just a shitty thing to say solely to hurt another person.

 

The whole point of that scene is they’re not communicating effectively.

 

I guess I feel like Seb is getting a raw deal here. He can be a jerk, but he’s in no way a bad guy. I feel like the idea that he’s not supportive is absurd. He sees her potential and encourages it. He workshops her play with her. And as CakeBug brought up, she quits her job to work on her play and is staying (presumably) rent free in his apartment.

 

The only time he isn’t there for her is at her show. Which, admittedly, is a big deal, but...he *was* going to go - even after she stormed out of the apartment. Hell, they probably hadn’t even spoken since that night and he was *still* going to go. I mean, had they not had that fight and had her show been successful, I doubt she would have been that mad. Disappointed? Sure. But if he told her what happened, she’d probably would have understood.

He constantly condescends and infantilizes her. It's not just that he missed her show; it's that she's clearly not the priority to her because he's too busy being a sad sack about having to play poppy jazz to be there for her. But we see her there for him every single step of the way.

 

Then, after she breaks up with him, he drives to another state and tracks her down just from the stories she’s told him about her life. He could have just hung up on that casting agent and been like, “Fuck her.” A lot of people would. The fact of the matter is, she wouldn’t be a famous star if he didn’t get over the petty bullshit. She eaarned it through her talent, yes, but her talent doesn’t mean shit if she doesn’t know about the offer.

 

Sure, he shows up....so that he can berate her and call her a baby. What a charming, charming selfless man.

 

And then, after ALL THAT, when she asks him where they are (obviously willing to get back together), even though he wants to be with her, he tells her “no” because she needs to pursue her dream with her whole heart and he knows he’d just be in the way.

 

But, please, tell me more about how selfish he is...

Like, I get it that maybe he's not the absolute villain, but he's so incredibly self-absorbed and self-righteous that everything is about him until the very end. But because he FINALLY shows up for a thing and then lets her go in the end, yay for him! What a swell, swell guy.

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Yep, mostly from me, because I was starting to get irked about the Seb-bashing when Mia's no prize, either. I am mostly just trying to unpack a lot of these moments from multiple angles, before this turned into the crucifixion of Sebastian thread. I like both of these characters plenty, but he's been taking a pounding, so I thought I would look at her with a little more scrutiny. In their end, they're both horrible garbage people. ;)

To be fair, that's largely because (as Taylor has pointed out a bunch), Seb is the one with a more fully fleshed-out character. Most of the movie is from his perspective and about him. So, like, I get it that Mia might not be the best, but a lot of that is us having to fill in the blanks about her because we're given almost nothing.

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...so I thought I would look at her with a little more scrutiny. In their end, they're both horrible garbage people. ;)

I was hot on the post button there, but I totally get wanted to look at her with more of a microscopic view, but other than that one fight do we really have a sense that she's also a garbage person?

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But separate from their relationship, Seb is the more infuriating of the two, and you have to allow us to process those opinions. And I stand by a lot of what I said because I still don't see as much personality from Mia as I did Seb because so much of what we see about her is influenced by him.

But I'm not preventing anyone from processing those opinions. I'm just making observations about the other side of it.

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But, please, tell me more about how selfish he is...

 

I don't think he's selfish per say. Just that he's thoughtless (in a nice way, not a cruel way). He encourages Mia to quit her job, write her own thing, rent out a theater - all great things! - but then doesn't really follow up with her about a back up plan or what her next step is. He snows her with charm and a 'it's fate! Don't worry so much' attitude and she has zero follow through. I know its not his fault that she didn't draw a crowd, but the 'everything always goes the way I expect it to' attitude drives me insane and doesn't extend itself to everyone.

 

I may have some issues with this type of person that's coloring my viewing.

 

I also don't think Mia is in the right here either. She misses him and picks a fight with him that makes it seem like he's compromising his ideals, knowing personally how hard it is to succeed in making art for a living. I agree the music he was playing wasn't what he wanted to in his dreams, but it was better than the pool party 80's band and much better money too! They're both complicated people with not great communication skills.

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I was hot on the post button there, but I totally get wanted to look at her with more of a microscopic view, but other than that one fight do we really have a sense that she's also a garbage person?

THERE WAS A WINKY FACE THERE TAYLOR FFS

;) ;) ;)

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THERE WAS A WINKY FACE THERE TAYLOR FFS

;) ;) ;)

I IGNORE EVERY WINKY FACE

 

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THOSE THREE BLANK FACES ARE

 

NO CLUE WHAT SO EVER

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I IGNORE EVERY WINKY FACE

 

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THOSE THREE BLANK FACES ARE

 

NO CLUE WHAT SO EVER

Sorry, I forgot the lingua franca in this forum is gifs.

 

tenor.gif

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Sorry, I forgot the lingua franca in this forum is gifs.

vztc6Bw.gif

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I don't see her response as petty at all. She asks him when he's going to be home, and he says that they tour to afford another album and then record another album so they can tour. And that's when she says, "So you're in it for the long haul?" She's asking if this is something he's willing to commit to because for the whole rest of the movie, he's been complaining about how he doesn't want to do it.

 

I think you're giving her too much of the benefit of the doubt. We just saw her sad and lonely and wanting to be with him. She then finds out that this is what it's going to be and she's like, "OMG is this my life forever?" She is being passive-aggressive. She's pretending like it's out of a concern for him when it's really she wants him to be there with her. This is all in the movie. The scene right before it and in the conversation itself.

 

The only person I see being petty in this convo is Seb when he tells her she only liked him when he was failing because it made her feel better about herself. Which is just a shitty thing to say solely to hurt another person.

 

Yes! He's saying something shitty because he knows she's right! He doesn't want to be doing this, but he's doing it (at least in his mind) for her. If you have a job you don't want to be doing and putting off your dream, the last thing you need to hear is someone telling you how you're wasting your life.

 

Also, while what he says is shitty, he's not exactly lying either.

 

He constantly condescends and infantilizes her. It's not just that he missed her show; it's that she's clearly not the priority to her because he's too busy being a sad sack about having to play poppy jazz to be there for her. But we see her there for him every single step of the way.

 

I would need specific scenes. Aside from that one scene, when has he let her down or not been there for her?

 

Sure, he shows up....so that he can berate her and call her a baby. What a charming, charming selfless man.

 

It's tough love! She has given up! Sometimes you need some to tell you "Stop being an asshole and get your shit together." How is he being "selfish" here? What is he getting out of this? Please feel free to quote the movie.

 

Like, I get it that maybe he's not the absolute villain, but he's so incredibly self-absorbed and self-righteous that everything is about him until the very end. But because he FINALLY shows up for a thing and then lets her go in the end, yay for him! What a swell, swell guy.

 

I already outlined in my previous post how he has been there for him throughout the movie. So, again, please tell me specific examples of when he is not there for her throughout the movie.

 

Bottome line: they are both self-absorbed, Mia is just more likable.

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I don't think he's selfish per say. Just that he's thoughtless (in a nice way, not a cruel way). He encourages Mia to quit her job, write her own thing, rent out a theater - all great things! - but then doesn't really follow up with her about a back up plan or what her next step is. He snows her with charm and a 'it's fate! Don't worry so much' attitude and she has zero follow through. I know its not his fault that she didn't draw a crowd, but the 'everything always goes the way I expect it to' attitude drives me insane and doesn't extend itself to everyone.

 

But why is this his responsibility? She's an adult. She wants to be an actress. What she's doing isn't working. All he does is give her another option and helps her through it. I don't know that he also needs to be like, "And now if this doesn't work, you should do this..."

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