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Musical Mondays Week 40 La La Land


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#41 taylor anne photo

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:04 PM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 04 June 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

I took Seb's position on John Legend as seeing him as 'the worst' because he's playing the music he wants to play, and he's getting paid for it, which makes him a sellout. Clearly there's some baggage from when they were at music school/university together, and it comes down on the matter of the purity of music. It's interesting that Seb is the jazz traditionalist while JL is the innovator, so not only is he 'selling out' but he's selling out the tradition that Seb describes as part of JL's own heritage. It's interesting, though, in that in an indirect way, JL says that Seb is the worst too - essentially that his last keyboardist wasn't as talented as Seb, but Seb is a pain in the ass. Surely JL spends a little time at home with his fiancee/wife talking about how his new keyboardist is the worst too. Everyone's perception is based on their bias and worldview, and because they clash, they consider one another the worst.

But this is why it basically took me until today to realize that the narrative does changed once Seb realizes he was wrong about a lot (although it's usually just the stuff that him and Mia disagreed with), because up until that moment where we see that Seb took all of Mia's thoughts to heart it still paints him as the one with the correct stance on things. Obviously I'm not talking about the way he treats her dream and how he missed her show for the actual worst photo shoot I've ever seen on film ever, like cmon guy that lip bite was so unattractive it actually made me want to stop liking Ryan Gosling for a hot minute. But like after the moments with John, Seb still never changes his stance on "saving" Jazz. Like what it seems he takes to heart is the fact that he is an asshole to someone that was once his friend and pretty much an asshole to the girl he loves, but at the end of the movie he's got his old time jazz club that only plays old time jazz. So in the viewers mind he is still "correct" because we don't follow John Legend after that.
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#42 taylor anne photo

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:07 PM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 04 June 2018 - 12:58 PM, said:

I took it as her seeing him at the beginning playing his synth and knowing that although it's not his kind of music, at least he's playing for a crowd, then you add John Legend singing without the band, and it's still jazz-adjacent, but as soon as you add the dancing team and the bells and whistles, she sees that he hasn't just sold out a bit, but that this is so far overboard that she knows this is going to make him miserable. I also didn't think she liked the music much (regardless of what she says later)

What I don't get is that she KNEW it was going to be something that made him miserable because HE KEPT TELLING HER it would be. So in my mind I still don't really understand why she is so surprised because he didn't want to go down that path until she convinced him to in order to make enough money to open the club.
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#43 tomspanks

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:09 PM

View PostCinco DeNio, on 04 June 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

Speaking of Umbrellas of Cherbourg, it supposedly influenced one of the big dance numbers but I can't tell which one. Is that correct or am I misinterpreting?


The dance number is from The Young Girls of Rochefort, another Demy film. I think they say that the ending of Umbrellas inspired the ending of La La Land. IIRC, there are no big dance numbers in Umbrellas.

#44 CakeBug Tranch

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:13 PM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 04 June 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

What I don't get is that she KNEW it was going to be something that made him miserable because HE KEPT TELLING HER it would be. So in my mind I still don't really understand why she is so surprised because he didn't want to go down that path until she convinced him to in order to make enough money to open the club.

Maybe because deep in her heart of hearts she knows that Seb is the WORST (you can still love someone who's the worst, come on, we all have at one point or another) and just assumes he's being a smug snob as usual. She says right away that she hates jazz, but never says what she DOES like. I think she's a closet Anthrax fan, personally.
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#45 tomspanks

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:15 PM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 04 June 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

Seb, however, IS the worst. At that photo shoot ("bite yer lip boy") on the ONLY night of his girlfriend's one-woman show, not only does Seb not say "do you think I can skip it? there's like, 34 members of this band and we're just miming", but he doesn't look at his watch or say "dude, I was here for the wide shots, can I please go now?" or "hey, I'm double-booked, can you snap a few of me and then I'll split?" Both times I've seen it I was wishing Seb would bust out of the photo shoot and at least catch SOME OF HER SHOW.

Man, the fantasy 'what if' ballet made me cry both times I've seen this movie because it's such a document of what their lives would have been like IF SEB STOPPED BEING SUCH A SHITHEAD. Everything else happens in exactly the same way - she still goes to Paris, becomes a star, they go to the club (I guess it's not called 'Seb's' now - I would like to propose it's called 'Shades's' and the drummer from the Oneders is up on the stage), and their lives are better, all if he didn't blow her off in the club, go on tour, etc etc etc. I never hated Seb until today. Damn you guys.


Do you not remember the beginning of the movie? TRAFFIC JAM EVERYWHERE

I don't hate Seb and I don't think their lives would have been necessarily better if they stayed together. The "what if" fantasy is just that, a fantasy. Don't get me wrong, I love the entire sequence too, but no relationship/marriage is going to turn out like the fantasy in your head.

#46 grudlian.

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:19 PM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 04 June 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

Seb, however, IS the worst. At that photo shoot ("bite yer lip boy") on the ONLY night of his girlfriend's one-woman show, not only does Seb not say "do you think I can skip it? there's like, 34 members of this band and we're just miming", but he doesn't look at his watch or say "dude, I was here for the wide shots, can I please go now?" or "hey, I'm double-booked, can you snap a few of me and then I'll split?" Both times I've seen it I was wishing Seb would bust out of the photo shoot and at least catch SOME OF HER SHOW.

I don't remember but does Ryan Gosling even call her to say he won't be there? I don't think he does and I'm thinking "What is your god damn problem? Scheduling mishaps happen and John Legend band is your job. You can't exactly bail on it but maybe you should. But maybe you can't. But at least tell her you aren't going to show up.

It also seems like the movie portrays that Mia is mildly surprised the auditorium is mostly empty. Wouldn't you, as the event planner, be able to ask the venue about ticket sales? Maybe you don't call them every day asking but even on the day of the show? Backstage? You can't ask "Ummm...I'm not hearing a lot of crowd noise. How many tickets are there? When you say 10, do you mean 10 left or 10 sold?"

#47 taylor anne photo

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:20 PM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 04 June 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

Maybe because deep in her heart of hearts she knows that Seb is the WORST (you can still love someone who's the worst, come on, we all have at one point or another) and just assumes he's being a smug snob as usual. She says right away that she hates jazz, but never says what she DOES like. I think she's a closet Anthrax fan, personally.

It's interesting that you mention that because outside of Seb and her love of Hollywood we really don't have a clue who this woman is. She's someone that doesn't like parties and worshiped her aunt's glamorous lifestyle, but what does she do for fun? What kind of music did she listen to?

It seems like we know a lot more about who Seb is as a solo person than we do Mia.
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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:24 PM

View Posttomspanks, on 04 June 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:


The dance number is from The Young Girls of Rochefort, another Demy film. I think they say that the ending of Umbrellas inspired the ending of La La Land. IIRC, there are no big dance numbers in Umbrellas.

Thank you! That was throwing me off because I didn't remember any big numbers in Umbrellas either.
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#49 tomspanks

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:24 PM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 04 June 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

It's interesting that you mention that because outside of Seb and her love of Hollywood we really don't have a clue who this woman is. She's someone that doesn't like parties and worshiped her aunt's glamorous lifestyle, but what does she do for fun? What kind of music did she listen to?

It seems like we know a lot more about who Seb is as a solo person than we do Mia.


She likes hot showers and listens to 80s music, I think?

Also, she's terrible at mailing out invitations.

#50 grudlian.

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:27 PM

View Posttaylor anne photo, on 04 June 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

What I don't get is that she KNEW it was going to be something that made him miserable because HE KEPT TELLING HER it would be. So in my mind I still don't really understand why she is so surprised because he didn't want to go down that path until she convinced him to in order to make enough money to open the club.

She's right though. He wants to open a club but being a part time keyboardist for an 80s party band probably doesn't bring in "buy a club right off the highway" type money. He was living in a crazy fantasy world if he thought it would happen for him doing what he was doing. At least Mia was working toward her goal. Going to bit part auditions isn't the Hollywood dream, but you have to put in the work unless there really is a "someone in the crowd" moment.

And how much money was Ryan Gosling making to buy that club. It's in a nice enough area that glamorous movie star can walk down the street without security. They are in LA. So, just buying the club if it were in terrible condition would be what? A few million dollars at least right? Is John Legend's band that huge? That in five years, Ryan Gosling could get that kind of capital?

#51 tomspanks

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:29 PM

View Postgrudlian., on 04 June 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

She's right though. He wants to open a club but being a part time keyboardist for an 80s party band probably doesn't bring in "buy a club right off the highway" type money. He was living in a crazy fantasy world if he thought it would happen for him doing what he was doing. At least Mia was working toward her goal. Going to bit part auditions isn't the Hollywood dream, but you have to put in the work unless there really is a "someone in the crowd" moment.

And how much money was Ryan Gosling making to buy that club. It's in a nice enough area that glamorous movie star can walk down the street without security. They are in LA. So, just buying the club if it were in terrible condition would be what? A few million dollars at least right? Is John Legend's band that huge? That in five years, Ryan Gosling could get that kind of capital?


He saved a ton of money by not eating out and meal planning at home.

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:30 PM

View Postgrudlian., on 04 June 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

I don't remember but does Ryan Gosling even call her to say he won't be there? I don't think he does and I'm thinking "What is your god damn problem? Scheduling mishaps happen and John Legend band is your job. You can't exactly bail on it but maybe you should. But maybe you can't. But at least tell her you aren't going to show up.

It also seems like the movie portrays that Mia is mildly surprised the auditorium is mostly empty. Wouldn't you, as the event planner, be able to ask the venue about ticket sales? Maybe you don't call them every day asking but even on the day of the show? Backstage? You can't ask "Ummm...I'm not hearing a lot of crowd noise. How many tickets are there? When you say 10, do you mean 10 left or 10 sold?"

I did co-op/semi-pro theatre for years as I came up in my career, and never ever did I meet a producer who booked a show into a space far too big for the gig. If anything, there was less space, not more. And a one-off show? Come on, man. Why not a run of 3-4? (and yeah, I know she maybe can't afford a longer run, but why use such a big space? use a black box, co-opt a space, improvise!) A single show on a Thursday night with grandiose poster design but no publicity? And she hangs a white sign on one seat saying 'RESERVED' which will guarantee that with light spill she's going to be staring at the empty Seb seat all night. Seriously, no one's in the audience except her old flatmates but also the casting director for a giant Hollywood film. She knows no one's out there. You're not fooling anyone, Mia.
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#53 grudlian.

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:49 PM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 04 June 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

I did co-op/semi-pro theatre for years as I came up in my career, and never ever did I meet a producer who booked a show into a space far too big for the gig. If anything, there was less space, not more. And a one-off show? Come on, man. Why not a run of 3-4? (and yeah, I know she maybe can't afford a longer run, but why use such a big space? use a black box, co-opt a space, improvise!) A single show on a Thursday night with grandiose poster design but no publicity? And she hangs a white sign on one seat saying 'RESERVED' which will guarantee that with light spill she's going to be staring at the empty Seb seat all night. Seriously, no one's in the audience except her old flatmates but also the casting director for a giant Hollywood film. She knows no one's out there. You're not fooling anyone, Mia.

I don't know anything about theatre but maybe she couldn't find anything smaller? Looked like a 100 seats. How much smaller do legit theatres get?

I got the feeling she spent everything to get the venue and posters. Maybe a 3-4 run is too much money? Is it plausible that a theatre would have just a one day opening and the venue decides they might as well get a little money for one day than nothing?

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:52 PM

View Postgrudlian., on 04 June 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:


I don't know anything about theatre but maybe she couldn't find anything smaller? Looked like a 100 seats. How much smaller do legit theatres get?

I got the feeling she spent everything to get the venue and posters. Maybe a 3-4 run is too much money? Is it plausible that a theatre would have just a one day opening and the venue decides they might as well get a little money for one day than nothing?


I think it was the same theater they went to see Rebel Without a Cause. I think she picked it for sentimental/luck/destiny reasons.
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#55 tomspanks

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 01:56 PM

So, everyone is dumping on Seb/Ryan Gosling (including me a bit), but one of the real standouts was his piano playing. One of my pet peeves is when musicians on screen blatantly fake play their instruments and I thought his playing was totally believable!

Speaking of music, one of my favorite moments is that trumpet solo in the "fantasy" sequence (Epilogue on the soundtrack) and the last note, that double A. God, I love that. So I looked up the trumpet player, but apparently the actor/musician in the movie is not the trumpet soloist on the soundtrack! It's Wayne Bergeron on the soundtrack and I found out that he also played trumpet on the Incredibles soundtrack. I love that theme song so much. I recommend checking it out for anyone who loves kickass brass sections. Anyway, Wayne Bergeron has one more fan today!

#56 SaraK

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:01 PM

View Postgrudlian., on 04 June 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

That in five years, Ryan Gosling could get that kind of capital?


I feel like the five year turn around is super short for both of them.


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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:06 PM

View Posttomspanks, on 04 June 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

Also, she's terrible at mailing out invitations.

I loved this first comment on that article (which was great btw thank you for sharing)

Quote

The real reason is that Chazelle isn't all that interested in Mia. That's why we get to hear multiple compositions by Seb, but only ever see Mia being ignored by casting directors while reciting other people's lines. It's the reason Seb is a fully-rounded character with flaws and desires and traits, and Mia is just a nice aspiring actress, with zero additional defining qualities. The character skates by on the scope of Stone's charms, which are considerable, but that doesn't quite overcome just how thinly sketched she is on paper.


THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE

And it's so true! Any time she needs to say her own lines the camera cuts to another scene until she's finished. We never see her act in the movie where the character was built around her. We never actually see her do anything she is actually passionate about save be with Seb.
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#58 Cinco DeNio

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:07 PM

View PostCakeBug Tranch, on 04 June 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

I did co-op/semi-pro theatre for years as I came up in my career, and never ever did I meet a producer who booked a show into a space far too big for the gig. If anything, there was less space, not more. And a one-off show? Come on, man. Why not a run of 3-4? (and yeah, I know she maybe can't afford a longer run, but why use such a big space? use a black box, co-opt a space, improvise!) A single show on a Thursday night with grandiose poster design but no publicity? And she hangs a white sign on one seat saying 'RESERVED' which will guarantee that with light spill she's going to be staring at the empty Seb seat all night. Seriously, no one's in the audience except her old flatmates but also the casting director for a giant Hollywood film. She knows no one's out there. You're not fooling anyone, Mia.

I thought it was supposed to be more than one night but she was so put off by the lackluster response that she quit then and there.
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#59 Cam Bert

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:09 PM

View Posttomspanks, on 04 June 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

So, everyone is dumping on Seb/Ryan Gosling (including me a bit), but one of the real standouts was his piano playing. One of my pet peeves is when musicians on screen blatantly fake play their instruments and I thought his playing was totally believable!

Well apparently that was really him playing! He took three months and did his best to learn how to play in addition to learning to sing and dance. So I think I can cut him a break on the singing and dancing a little.
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#60 Cinco DeNio

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:10 PM

View Postgrudlian., on 04 June 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

She's right though. He wants to open a club but being a part time keyboardist for an 80s party band probably doesn't bring in "buy a club right off the highway" type money. He was living in a crazy fantasy world if he thought it would happen for him doing what he was doing. At least Mia was working toward her goal. Going to bit part auditions isn't the Hollywood dream, but you have to put in the work unless there really is a "someone in the crowd" moment.

And how much money was Ryan Gosling making to buy that club. It's in a nice enough area that glamorous movie star can walk down the street without security. They are in LA. So, just buying the club if it were in terrible condition would be what? A few million dollars at least right? Is John Legend's band that huge? That in five years, Ryan Gosling could get that kind of capital?

Maybe John Legend is helping? I also wondered how long Seb was going to be able to keep it. He even joked that the one piano player was better than him. WTH?!?!
Mary Lane: (singing)"We are just like Romeo and Juliet. We're happy, young and <hacking cough> hemorrhaging blood."
-- Reefer Madness: The Movie Musical (2005)

Offscreen critic: "What was that s**t with the window?"
-- La La Land (2016)