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Cameron H.

Musical Mondays Week 49 Meet Me in St. Louis

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Gather ‘round, everyone! Great news! I’m moving Musical Mondays to Facebook! I didn’t want to say anything until it was a sure thing...Wait, what’s the matter?

We watched:

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I just want the say, I really enjoyed Meet Me in St. Louis. My only issue with it was the plot seemed rather light. It just sort of moved from one series of Holiday related skits to the next - moving from one party to the next. The primary conflict for 2/3 of the movie was basically, “Will we get married?” And while I get why that would have been a big deal at the time, I don’t feel like the movie conveyed *why* it was such a big deal. I wonder if it’s because societal norms and pressures hadn’t changed all *that* much since 1944 so they knew the audience would just “get it.”

For me, however, in the year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Eighteen, I’m like, “You’re 21, woman! You’re young enough to not worry about marriage and old enough to not have to move to NYC if you don’t want to!”

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21 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I just want the say, I really enjoyed Meet Me in St. Louis. My only issue with it was the plot seemed rather light. It just sort of moved from one series of Holiday related skits to the next - moving from one party to the next. The primary conflict for 2/3 of the movie was basically, “Will we get married?” And while I get why that would have been a big deal at the time, I don’t feel like the movie conveyed *why* it was such a big deal. I wonder if it’s because societal norms and pressures hadn’t changed all *that* much since 1944 so they knew the audience would just “get it.”

For me, however, in the year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Eighteen, I’m like, “You’re 21, woman! You’re young enough to not worry about marriage and old enough to not have to move to NYC if you don’t want to!”

This is kind of how I felt. Partly because they obviously were going to get married, I wasn't really invested. Partly, I couldn't keep track of the guys because they looked the same. But Tootie is a psycho and I loved her but that family needs to get her in therapy.

Does anyone know anything about early 1900s Halloween? Did kids burn furniture in the streets? Was throwing flour in people's faces a thing?

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38 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

 

Does anyone know anything about early 1900s Halloween? Did kids burn furniture in the streets? Was throwing flour in people's faces a thing?

I Googled “Meet Me in St. Louis Halloween” and a site called “Emma Rae’s Halloween” had this to say:

Obviously Halloween wasn’t a widespread holiday in America until hoards of European immigrants began to spread across the country. Thanks to the Irish moving over due to the Irish Potato Famine, we have the tradition of the Jack-o-Lantern. As America moved into the 19th century, pranks were a popular tradition for Halloween; greasing doorknobs and jamming doorbells were some favorites.

Unlike today, most of these pranks were tolerated. Another tradition that was popular but isn’t discussed much was portrayed in the 1944 film “Meet Me in St. Louis”, which takes place in 1903. A young child would try to seek revenge on a grumpy old man from the neighborhood by ringing the doorbell and throwing flour in the face of said grump. Often bonfires were built in celebration and masks were expected for most children, even if not in costume.

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12 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I Googled “Meet Me in St. Louis Halloween” and a site called “Emma Rae’s Halloween” had this to say:

Obviously Halloween wasn’t a widespread holiday in America until hoards of European immigrants began to spread across the country. Thanks to the Irish moving over due to the Irish Potato Famine, we have the tradition of the Jack-o-Lantern. As America moved into the 19th century, pranks were a popular tradition for Halloween; greasing doorknobs and jamming doorbells were some favorites.

Unlike today, most of these pranks were tolerated. Another tradition that was popular but isn’t discussed much was portrayed in the 1944 film “Meet Me in St. Louis”, which takes place in 1903. A young child would try to seek revenge on a grumpy old man from the neighborhood by ringing the doorbell and throwing flour in the face of said grump. Often bonfires were built in celebration and masks were expected for most children, even if not in costume.

Great minds think alike.  I was just about to post that!

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I had seen this years ago and didn't like it.  Watching again yesterday was much more enjoyable.  I thought last week people said there was a song for each holiday (a la Holiday Inn) but I missed Halloween's if it was there.  I agree about viewing it with a 21st-century lens.  Even though the maid was white she was still expected to feed the family?!?  The dad made a big fuss about carving the corned beef but then ordered her to do it anyway.  I get the dad was not really a villain but he was so stubborn he couldn't see the family's unhappiness until the very last minute.  I would have liked to see him take a stand with his bosses and then announce he had talked them into letting the family stay instead of just announcing it to his family.

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Was there a scene I missed where we see why John was so taken with Esther?  I never understood his motivations during either viewing.

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12 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I Googled “Meet Me in St. Louis Halloween” and a site called “Emma Rae’s Halloween” had this to say:

Obviously Halloween wasn’t a widespread holiday in America until hoards of European immigrants began to spread across the country. Thanks to the Irish moving over due to the Irish Potato Famine, we have the tradition of the Jack-o-Lantern. As America moved into the 19th century, pranks were a popular tradition for Halloween; greasing doorknobs and jamming doorbells were some favorites.

Unlike today, most of these pranks were tolerated. Another tradition that was popular but isn’t discussed much was portrayed in the 1944 film “Meet Me in St. Louis”, which takes place in 1903. A young child would try to seek revenge on a grumpy old man from the neighborhood by ringing the doorbell and throwing flour in the face of said grump. Often bonfires were built in celebration and masks were expected for most children, even if not in costume.

I did like how worked up the kids got about "killing" the neighborhood families.  The ringleader gave the groups all kinds of things to do.  "Make sure you blow their house down, roof and all!" That kind of thing.  Also, what were the kids burning?  Tootie and Agnes' mom made a comment about stealing a hammock from a neighbor but she wanted it back when they were done.  They weren't going to burn that.

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2 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

I’m moving Musical Mondays to Facebook!

*destroys all the snowmen*

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1 minute ago, Cinco DeNio said:

I had seen this years ago and didn't like it.  Watching again yesterday was much more enjoyable.  I thought last week people said there was a song for each holiday (a la Holiday Inn) but I missed Halloween's if it was there.  I agree about viewing it with a 21st-century lens.  Even though the maid was white she was still expected to feed the family?!?  The dad made a big fuss about carving the corned beef but then ordered her to do it anyway.  I get the dad was not really a villain but he was so stubborn he couldn't see the family's unhappiness until the very last minute.  I would have liked to see him take a stand with his bosses and then announce he had talked them into letting the family stay instead of just announcing it to his family.

Yeah, that was weird. At one point, I was like, “Oh, so the father’s the antagonist?” I’m not saying you can’t do that, Mary Poppins does it very well, but MP also makes his redemption more of the focus. We see him grow as the movie progresses. In this, he sees his psycho daughter murder her snowpeople and thinks, “Maybe my family isn’t in to this thing...” and that’s pretty much it. They told you from the beginning they didn’t want to go, bro.

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9 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I Googled “Meet Me in St. Louis Halloween” and a site called “Emma Rae’s Halloween” had this to say:

Obviously Halloween wasn’t a widespread holiday in America until hoards of European immigrants began to spread across the country. Thanks to the Irish moving over due to the Irish Potato Famine, we have the tradition of the Jack-o-Lantern. As America moved into the 19th century, pranks were a popular tradition for Halloween; greasing doorknobs and jamming doorbells were some favorites.

Unlike today, most of these pranks were tolerated. Another tradition that was popular but isn’t discussed much was portrayed in the 1944 film “Meet Me in St. Louis”, which takes place in 1903. A young child would try to seek revenge on a grumpy old man from the neighborhood by ringing the doorbell and throwing flour in the face of said grump. Often bonfires were built in celebration and masks were expected for most children, even if not in costume.

This is really interesting because Halloween seems super tame now compared to the Lord Of The Flies bacchanal of early 1900s St. Louis.

I can't imagine just letting kids run around burning furniture in the streets. 

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1 minute ago, AlmostAGhost said:

*destroys all the snowmen*

There, there.  It's alright.

meetmeinstlouis-1.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

Was there a scene I missed where we see why John was so taken with Esther?  I never understood his motivations during either viewing.

I think it was because she was pretty and can’t turn off lights.

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Just now, Cameron H. said:

I think it was because she was pretty and can’t turn off lights.

And she took real good care of his hat

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Just now, Cam Bert said:

And she took real good care of his hat

She even gave him extra raisins :)

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Just now, Cameron H. said:

Yeah, that was weird. At one point, I was like, “Oh, so the father’s the antagonist?” I’m not saying you can’t do that, Mary Poppins does it very well, but MP also makes his redemption more of the focus. We see him grow as the movie progresses. In this, he sees his psycho daughter murder her snowpeople and thinks, “Maybe my family isn’t in to this thing...” and that’s pretty much it. They told you from the beginning they didn’t want to go, bro.

I also thought it was weird he announced they are moving and six months later they haven't done anything to move. I realize cross country travel was much different 110 years ago but you'd think they'd have packed everything (if they're even bringing stuff). If it takes half a year to get ready for the journey, can you even turn down a position right before leaving.

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1 minute ago, Cam Bert said:

And she took real good care of his hat

Raisins?

ETA: Cameron H. beat me to it.

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I feel the same as my fellow Cameron. It was an enjoyable movie but ultimately it was just so light in story that I never really felt that invested in any of the character except Tootie who is the real star of the movie. I was more interested in the fact that this movie was the birthplace of one of my favourite Christmas songs and seeing it in the movie adds a whole new layer to it.

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2 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I think it was because she was pretty and can’t turn off lights.

This is weird but did anyone else notice Just seemed to turn off part of the lights from a light switch on the wall?

The very first chandelier they turned off together, the lower half of it turns off when she touches the wall. Then they get together to turn off the rest of the chandelier. 

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I really liked the music in this, but one thing that kind of annoyed me is how - aside from “Have Yourself a Merry LittleChristmas” - none of them really had anything to do with the plot. Like, I liked the “Trolly Song,” (even if that trolly seemed to be going *real* fast), but it doesn’t really do anything other than confirm Esther loves John - which we already knew. The trolly doesn’t even really go anywhere. They board it, they sing, and then they’re back home.

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1 minute ago, Cameron H. said:

I really liked the music in this, but one thing that kind of annoyed me is how - aside from “Have Yourself a Merry LittleChristmas” - none of them really had anything to do with the plot. Like, I liked the “Trolly Song,” (even if that trolly seemed to be going *real* fast), but it doesn’t really do anything other than confirm Esther loves John - which we already knew. The trolly doesn’t even really go anywhere. They board it, they sing, and then they’re back home.

But they do skip to my lou

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4 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

I also thought it was weird he announced they are moving and six months later they haven't done anything to move. I realize cross country travel was much different 110 years ago but you'd think they'd have packed everything (if they're even bringing stuff). If it takes half a year to get ready for the journey, can you even turn down a position right before leaving.

I also thought it weird that they were like, “We’re going to have to live in tenements because we’re so poor.” 

Um...I think you folks are doing alright for yourselves.

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3 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

I feel the same as my fellow Cameron. It was an enjoyable movie but ultimately it was just so light in story that I never really felt that invested in any of the character except Tootie who is the real star of the movie. I was more interested in the fact that this movie was the birthplace of one of my favourite Christmas songs and seeing it in the movie adds a whole new layer to it.

 

1 minute ago, Cameron H. said:

I really liked the music in this, but one thing that kind of annoyed me is how - aside from “Have Yourself a Merry LittleChristmas” - none of them really had anything to do with the plot. Like, I liked the “Trolly Song,” (even if that trolly seemed to be going *real* fast), but it doesn’t really do anything other than confirm Esther loves John - which we already knew. The trolly doesn’t even really go anywhere. They board it, they sing, and then they’re back home.

This is interesting.  Apparently the Christmas song lyrics were much more on point but Judy Garland and others argued for changes.

Quote

When presented with the original draft lyric, Garland, her co-star Tom Drake and director Vincente Minnelli criticized the song as depressing, and asked Martin to change the lyrics. Though he initially resisted, Martin made several changes to make the song more upbeat. For example, the lines "It may be your last / Next year we may all be living in the past" became "Let your heart be light / Next year all our troubles will be out of sight". Garland's version of the song, which was also released as a single by Decca Records, became popular among United States troops serving in World War II; her performance at the Hollywood Canteen brought many soldiers to tears.[8]

 

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Yea I pretty much felt the same.  It was enjoyable enough, but I was not into it.  I thought Judy Garland was kind of amazing though.  

Also, there were cool use of lights and fire throughout

And weird dark jokes

You guys looked up Halloween.  Well, I looked up basketball -- Judy Garland's beau kept saying he was playing basketball.  I was like, was it even invented in 1903?

Turns out, it was invented in like 1891 or so.  It was famously played in peach baskets, without a hole in the bottom, until around 1898.  So I guess him playing basketball was pretty legit, but this dude was sort of on the cutting edge of the sport.

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I'm wondering if I missed the part that explained why Tootie was so obsessed with death and dying? It was explained her brother taught her the songs, but that doesn't explain why for fun she buried her dolls and things like that. My theory was that their grandmother must have recently passed and that's why grandfather is alone and why Tootie, being so young, is obsessed with death. It is how she is dealing and cooping with it. 

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