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Episode 213 - Shanghai Surprise (w/ Jordan Rubin)

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Dude, Paul...Katherine Hepburn...not Lauren Bacall. C'mon, man.

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17 hours ago, theworstbuddhist said:

Yeah. Was there even a knuckleball in the forties? Pitchers back then were expected to throw strikes and let the outfield handle balls put in play. It wasn't the role it is today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_knuckleball_pitchers

There were two knuckleball pitchers active in the majors in 1938.

5 hours ago, ChunkStyle said:

Was anyone else bothered by the name China Doll?  I feel like China is the one place where that name definitely doesn't work.  Nobody was calling Mei Gan China Hands.

If I understand the plot of this movie (15% chance of that, and only after reading a plot synopsis) Belloq hired Sean Penn for this mission solely because he looked like China Doll's ex-lover.  Belloq wanted the jewels in addition to the opium that he had all along and thought the way to get them was through China Doll's heart.  So what led him to that conclusion?  During their pillow talk after the 11 major and 9 minor positions China Doll said something like "You're alright but my ex-lover was really something and if I ever found anyone that even looked like him I'd do anything.  Here let me show you a picture of him."???

The David Bowie song 'China Girl' came out three years before this movie. I don't think that anyone would have even batted an eye at that name. I assumed that it was a nickname that Belloq gave his favorite concubine.

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Why was the music so amped up for the rickshaw race? Belloq went even faster after he was thrown from his rickshaw and caught them in no time. It was like watching a race of lazy people.

I also thought the humping wicker basket scene was supposed to be 'funny' and 'erotic'. Wasey's basket was doggy-styling Tatlock's basket until they both slid down the stairs.

What was the thing he ate in the bathtub to 'keep him up all night'? It looked like peanut M&M's.

The Shanghai Surprise was a big money belt which is used in that time period to hide money (obviously). It's supposed to not show under clothes so that when your pockets are searched, your valuables are not found.

I thought the mothballs that fell out of the second Surprise were somehow activated by water(?) and then they exploded.

I think they missed the characterization of Tatlock as a girl from the bad side of town who was trying to go straight but still had learned how to be a criminal with skills such as lock picking and seducing men. She used her accent more when they were on the run and she was not trying to impress the priest with her wholesomeness.

 

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 I’ve never seen a more ill-fitting hat in my life. At no point in the movie does his fedora look like a natural fit, compared to the other fedora wearers presented. AND BROTHER, THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF FEDORAS HERE. 

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Did anyone else notice this strange artwork that looks exactly like Link from the Legend of Zelda? And that it says "Mercy for the brave boys"? Weird... 

 

 

Screen-Shot-2019-05-11-at-5.55.22-PM.jpg

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I want to log in to say I LOVE MADONNA ...and none of this is her fault.

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2 minutes ago, LTL said:

I want to log in to say I LOVE MADONNA ...and none of this is her fault.

I agree! She was easily the best part of the movie. Even the bad line-reading and everything; I couldn't take my eyes off of her when she was on screen. 

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Just now, WatchOutForSnakes said:

I agree! She was easily the best part of the movie. Even the bad line-reading and everything; I couldn't take my eyes off of her when she was on screen. 

She’s like Elvis that way. She’s straight up iconic.

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2 hours ago, mere_melon said:

Did anyone else notice this strange artwork that looks exactly like Link from the Legend of Zelda? And that it says "Mercy for the brave boys"? Weird... 

 

 

Screen-Shot-2019-05-11-at-5.55.22-PM.jpg

A google image search of "Chinese war propaganda posters" (I highly recommend this search) yields a bunch of posters that are similar to that. But that completely looks like Link. 

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I was curious about Sean Penn's neon-colored wardrobe and wanted to make sure this was actually a historical anomaly for the time presented or if maybe I just wasn't aware of neon clothing in the 1930s.

https://thekit.ca/style/clothing/history-of-neon-clothing/

From what I can find, it looks like while neon SIGNS were in existence at the time, there's no evidence that neon or fluorescent colored clothing ever existed before the 1960s at the earliest, and of course it was not widely popular until the 80s.

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Am I the only one who was uncomfortable watching this given the abuse allegations against Sean Penn and how he supposedly beat Madonna? I've been trying really hard  make an effort not to buy media that has abusive/predatory people (men or women) in them this year and I only watched it because it was free on YouTube. So maybe I'm the only one who will have an issue with it because I'm trying to be more conscientious about who I support with my money but I wanted to ask if I was alone in feeling a bit uncomfortable.

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4 hours ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

I was curious about Sean Penn's neon-colored wardrobe and wanted to make sure this was actually a historical anomaly for the time presented or if maybe I just wasn't aware of neon clothing in the 1930s.

https://thekit.ca/style/clothing/history-of-neon-clothing/

From what I can find, it looks like while neon SIGNS were in existence at the time, there's no evidence that neon or fluorescent colored clothing ever existed before the 1960s at the earliest, and of course it was not widely popular until the 80s.

If they were glow in the dark like he said theres a good chance they are radioactive. It would have used Radioluminescent paint or some kind of radium laced dye? If it was phosphorescent paint the glow wouldn't last very long. Right? I don't know anything about science but I know this was around the time of the Radium Girls suing their bosses for compensation because of their health issues.

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On 5/14/2019 at 8:08 PM, WatchOutForSnakes said:

A google image search of "Chinese war propaganda posters" (I highly recommend this search) yields a bunch of posters that are similar to that. But that completely looks like Link. 

I'm guessing that given the slogan on the poster ("Mercy for the Brave Boys") it's a World War 1 era poster entreating women to lend support to the war effort as nurses and caregivers. The uniform and colour scheme is reminiscent of British posters from the time. And since much of fantasy literature and gaming was inspired by World War 1 and 2, it's still relevant to Zelda.

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13 hours ago, gigi-tastic said:

Am I the only one who was uncomfortable watching this given the abuse allegations against Sean Penn and how he supposedly beat Madonna? I've been trying really hard  make an effort not to buy media that has abusive/predatory people (men or women) in them this year and I only watched it because it was free on YouTube. So maybe I'm the only one who will have an issue with it because I'm trying to be more conscientious about who I support with my money but I wanted to ask if I was alone in feeling a bit uncomfortable.

No, you are not the only one. Penn's temper and abuse of his wife and photographers doesn't seem to have ever had public negative impact to his career. Ironic that he played a soulful photographer in the last thing I liked him in (Ben Stiller's remake of Walter Mitty). We really put up with a lot of bullshit from self-absorbed method actors back then, telling ourselves they were passionate. I think in Penn's case, he's just a dick.

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If anyone is interested, Jason appeared on the latest episode/podcast of Off Camera with Sam Jones. It's a really great interview, as both men speak openly and intelligently about art and performing.

https://offcamera.com/

191_oC_JasonMantzoukas_COVER.jpg

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18 hours ago, gigi-tastic said:

Am I the only one who was uncomfortable watching this given the abuse allegations against Sean Penn and how he supposedly beat Madonna? I've been trying really hard  make an effort not to buy media that has abusive/predatory people (men or women) in them this year and I only watched it because it was free on YouTube. So maybe I'm the only one who will have an issue with it because I'm trying to be more conscientious about who I support with my money but I wanted to ask if I was alone in feeling a bit uncomfortable.

I understand not wanting to support new work from these people, but for old stuff I've decided that I'm fine with watching it. If I had to cut out all old artwork from potentially abusive people I would be missing out on a lot.

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27 minutes ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

I understand not wanting to support new work from these people, but for old stuff I've decided that I'm fine with watching it. If I had to cut out all old artwork from potentially abusive people I would be missing out on a lot.

Yeah that's how I am usually too but I guess the stories I've heard about Penn just make me feel even worse? 

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34 minutes ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

I understand not wanting to support new work from these people, but for old stuff I've decided that I'm fine with watching it. If I had to cut out all old artwork from potentially abusive people I would be missing out on a lot.

But even old work, if paid for, gives money to said abusers. Many artists get royalties or residuals based off of if something airs on television or gets purchased off of iTunes. So this is really a personal decision for everyone, but don't think that just because you're not purchasing something new that you're not still putting money in their pockets.

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On 5/14/2019 at 7:08 PM, WatchOutForSnakes said:

A google image search of "Chinese war propaganda posters" (I highly recommend this search) yields a bunch of posters that are similar to that. But that completely looks like Link. 

I love this one series of communist ones that are of Russia and China. It looks like a delightful story of two comrades falling in love and raising children together.

you-me-and-the-book-of-communism-let_s-d

a-nice-day-outing-to-the-orchard-picking

let_s-make-a-communist-family-together-p

Look! They love to read together! They have a garden! A family portrait! ( with terrifying children. )

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1 minute ago, taylorannephoto said:

But even old work, if paid for, gives money to said abusers. Many artists get royalties or residuals based off of if something airs on television or gets purchased off of iTunes. So this is really a personal decision for everyone, but don't think that just because you're not purchasing something new that you're not still putting money in their pockets.

Agreed. However I also agree that sometimes you can separate the work from the artist it's just where you personally say this is something I cannot forgive. It's very tricky. I love Picasso but abhor Picasso. However he's dead and I'm never going to be in a position to own a piece of his work.

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31 minutes ago, gigi-tastic said:

Agreed. However I also agree that sometimes you can separate the work from the artist it's just where you personally say this is something I cannot forgive. It's very tricky. I love Picasso but abhor Picasso. However he's dead and I'm never going to be in a position to own a piece of his work.

I think using Picasso as an example is probably not the most fair considering yeah we're never going to afford a real Picasso painting and he's dead.

Like I said though it's a personal choice. We just did Chinatown on Unspooled a few weeks back and while I know the woman has made a statement about not wanting to be used as a martyr for people to boycott Polanski, I can never erase that from my mind and I refuse to participate in giving him any money, especially as a survivor of assault myself.

It's a conversation I think people have had over and over and while I still think it's a personal decision I also think it just so easily gets tossed aside with a separation of art and artist thing, but sooo many times we see the artist put their abuse into their art (looking at you Woody Allen making Manhattan) and I live paycheck to paycheck and work way too fucking hard for how little I make to just turn around and put more money into the pockets of these billionaire abusers.

ETA: This comes off super judgey and I apologize, cause I truly couldn't care less what people choose to do, but I think if we're having the conversation and we're all saying where we personally are drawing these lines then it needs to be really talked about.

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1 hour ago, taylorannephoto said:

But even old work, if paid for, gives money to said abusers. Many artists get royalties or residuals based off of if something airs on television or gets purchased off of iTunes. So this is really a personal decision for everyone, but don't think that just because you're not purchasing something new that you're not still putting money in their pockets.

I was thinking about this earlier today, and I get this is a very specific example, but what about supporting the abused? In this case, not supporting Penn also means not supporting Madonna. Granted, I don’t think she really needs the residuals from people watching Shanghai Surprise, but should she be punished because he’s an ass? 

I guess I’m falling a bit on Paul’s side from the Unspooled episode. A lot of people worked on Chinatown, should they be punished because they unknowingly worked with a monster? Should we ignore the work of the other actors, cameramen, writers, sound editors, composers etc, because they worked with someone who turned out to be a piece of shit?

It’s a tough nut to crack. It really is. And for me, it really comes down to when I first experienced their work. I think it also makes a difference if the person is in front or behind the camera. Since I’ve never seen them, I know I will never be able to watch American Beauty or The Usual Suspects. I don’t care how good they are. I won’t be able to get passed Kevin Spacey. I guess it really comes down to how people compartmentalize . 

And, like SyCasey alluded to, there are so many garbage people out there. I’m sure there are terrible people who work on every movie, show, song, whatever. Where do we draw the line? If Ringo’s drum technician is a serial killer, do we stop buying Beatles records? What’s different between that and being an actor-for-higher beyond visibility?

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11 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I was thinking about this earlier today, and I get this is a very specific example, but what about supporting the abused? In this case, not supporting Penn also means not supporting Madonna. Granted, I don’t think she really needs the residuals from people watching Shanghai Surprise, but should she be punished because he’s an ass? 

I guess I’m falling a bit on Paul’s side from the Unspooled episode. A lot of people worked on Chinatown, should they be punished because they unknowingly worked with a monster? Should we ignore the work of the other actors, cameramen, writers, sound editors, composers etc, because they worked with someone who turned out to be a piece of shit?

It’s a tough nut to crack. It really is. And for me, it really comes down to when I first experienced their work. I think it also makes a difference if the person is in front or behind the camera. Since I’ve never seen them, I know I will never now be able to watch American Beauty or The Usual Suspects. I don’t care how good they are. I won’t be able to get passed Kevin Spacey. I guess it really comes down to how people can compartmentalize . 

And, like SyCasey alluded to, there are so many garbage people out there. I’m sure there are terrible people who work on every movie, show, song, whatever. Where do we draw the line? If Ringo’s drum technician is a serial killer, do we stop buying Beatles records? What’s different between that and being an actor-for-higher beyond visibility?

Personally, if I don't want to support Shanghai Surprise but I would like to support Madonna, then I'll go out of my way to do something else for her or anyone else ya know? Unless someone truly never did anything before or after this movie then there are other opportunities to support those people in other ways. I can buy a Madonna song for the same price as this movie was available to rent, or I can watch something else with Jack Nicholson and Faye Dunnaway.

It really is a tough nut to crack and it's probably something we're all going to be discussing not only with each other but with ourselves for years to come, because truly I haven't even come to a solidified answer for myself yet, but I know I'm like you in that if there are things I've never heard or seen then I'm definitely now never going to watch or listen to them. I'm fine with never seeing Chinatown now because it's never going to be anything different for me than a movie by a convicted pedophile who escaped from his punishment.

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