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I'm a million years late on this, but fuck this movie.

Same!!! My definite favorite!!

But I think that's all their doing, fudging the rules or whatever a little so that they can let what they want be eligible. Paddington is absolutely a British story, but I guess to AFI all it needs is something like Amazon putting some money in the pot and it's now a qualifier, as is something completely inherently British like The Favourite (even the title is more British than anything else on that list lol).

I think in this episode they do a good job of pointing out that foreign directors love to tell American stories, like Steve McQueen with 12 Years a Slave and Widows. So to me, Kubrick being American-born doesn't necessarily make it an American movie when it's such a British story. To that I still say really the only thing American about it is the funding. If we really want to celebrate Kubrick as an American filmmaker there are better films like 2001 and The Shining that in my opinion do that job perfectly while feeling entirely more American. Basically, it's a blurred line that's for sure.

I don't think AFI cares about how deep the rest of us have to research, which by the way I say "deep in the rabbit hole" as a joke because I went to IMDB then google then the companies website. Three spots and I found all the info I needed lol. But I go back to A Clockwork Orange, what about that film is American other than the money? It's filled with British Actors in Britain, and nothing about it screams "furthering American cinema." I'm not arguing for Paddington or The Favourite over Roma, but obviously there's something deeper the AFI is considering when they put their lists together that we have to recognize. Also, may we consider the fact that Paul and Amy truly didn't realize that Paddington 2 and The Favourite would be in the same boat as Roma (despite the AFI themselves putting The Favourite on their own list).

You gotta go down the research rabbit hole my friend. Amazon apparently put some into this, as well as Marmalade Films and Anton (the Luxembourg part of this).

Y'all are gonna make me research every movie now aren't ya. Paddington 2 has production money from UK, France, Luxembourg, and USA.

The fact that Mary Poppins Returns made that list and Sorry to Bother You didn't really pisses me off.

Well I think in that case it's what country is able to "claim" it in terms of awards. Mexico has officially submitted Roma as their film and therefore it may no longer be considered an American film, but The Favourite may not have that claim to it. It's the same with A Clockwork Orange, which I believe that Amy brought up is so heavily UK that it seems odd that it would end up on the American list.

According to IMDB the US is listed as a country for it, despite never being shot here. Something about it counts. Ah had to go down a Rabbit Hole of research to find this - While it doesn't list Arcana on IMDB it does list Ken Kao's other production company "Waypoint Entertainment." Think we found the American tie there.

ugh formatting messed this up HOLD THIS THOUGHT

Nah they would have to pay a hefty fee in order to use the actual Starbucks name and logo on screen. Tim Horton's would've been far cheaper lol.

To Cameron's point, I am arguing quality and popularity. I do think that these top 20 grossing films are being passed off because of their popularity, and I think that's because there's an assumption that they are all not good. But specifically, when talking about Amy's thoughts on superhero films, I think it's just because she herself doesn't enjoy them. There's absolutely nothing wrong with just not enjoying them. It's completely a personal thing for all of us when it comes to movie tastes. I just don't think that any genre should get wiped away from the possibility of being considered "the best of" just because of personal taste. In the same vein popularity doesn't automatically mean the movie is good either, because like Paul said, the Fast and Furious movies make a fuck ton of money but people enjoy those because they are fun crap to watch, not because they want them to win an Oscar, but that doesn't mean that all action movies should be lumped in with the crap quality of that franchise.

I'm just sorry it didn't work out. I'm really mad at them for taking it off Netflix.

Amy Adams is the reason why a lot of movies are better than they actually are. Her and Jennifer Lawrence are truly the only good parts of American Hustle to me and I loved them so much in that movie it jumped it up into the top 10 of that year for me lol.

I haven't seen Spider-Verse yet but I've been hearing so many amazing things that I would totally support that decision, and honestly I've never seen any of the original Superman movies either. But to me if we're going to represent the modern age in comic movie trends then Superman from the 70s doesn't really feel like it fits to me. I would totally do Dark Knight though because I think that Nolan trilogy sparked more than Iron Man ever did. Also you're so right that they didn't make that movie to get white people to see it. In fact I've seen some shitty racists be like, "I liked Marvel before it got all political," to which a black guy responded, "Black people leading a movie is political?"

I have to also add that I'm not someone that can claim they grew up with this universe. When I was growing up it was all Batman and that was it. I remember getting my mom to buy me one Spider-Man comic when I was a kid because it was at the grocery store and the cover had Peter and Black Cat kissing and that was exciting to me at like 9 or 10 years old lol, but I never asked for anything else ever related to any Marvel character ever. Even when the MCU started I saw Ed Norton's Hulk movie and thought it was okay (Didn't even go to the theater to see it - my friends and I wanted to see The Happening and there was no midnight showing so we went to Hulk instead. I believe we made the right choice.) and didn't even like Iron Man at all, which I have definitely found an appreciation for now but it's still lower on my list than others. It really wasn't until Captain America: The First Avenger in 2011 that I was like oh these are good! It made me go back and watch everything that had come out since Iron Man and I was fuckin' in on this universe. Then when Avengers came out a year later I went to my local comic shop and bought every Hawkeye that was currently out by Matt Fraction and the most recent run of Black Widow and my whole world changed. I could suddenly see the draw of Marvel and I was like damn I have been missing out on everything that isn't Batman lol. So when I talk about these films, I talk about them as someone that did not grow up with these characters. I have zero nostalgia and zero tie to them other than the fact that these movies were good enough to suck me in and make me want these characters all the time.

Yeah I was a little like, "Yikes..." when they said that because that moment holds a lot of weight for black Americans specifically. Killmonger paints that imagery of the slaves jumping off the ship because dying at sea would be better than living in slavery and hearing two white people talk about the lack of emotional weight in that moment did not come off great for me.

I tried to test it out last night, and I'm not sure if it was something on my end or just Cinemax, but it would not play for me

I still can't decide on Taxi Driver. I love this movie and I think it's really well made and has sparked so much cultural references to it, but I don't think the themes hold up at all and I'm so conflicted about it.

I mean we've had this conversation before and I still just don't agree with a lot of what you've pointed out. Winter Soldier doesn't have to be 3 Days Of The Condor because it's not trying to be that movie, but trying to say that makes it not air on the side of a 70s political thriller is ridiculous, because it absolutely does. None of these movies are ever going to be exactly like whatever genre their mimicking because that's the whole point - they are taking elements from a 70s political thriller, or a New Zealand comedy, or a family friendly film (that's what Ant-Man really is, not a heist film), and they make a superhero movie around that which automatically makes it different from anything else we've seen. Since this is now the second time I've seen you bring up things like "It's still just Captain America to me," I can't comprehend why that matters other than it just doesn't excite you like it does other people, and to that point - Why do your feelings get to override anyone else's about what should be put on the AFI list? Also if you think Marvel didn't consciously try and capitalize on being the first superhero movie with black leads since they were beat by DC at the female lead game then you trippin yo.

YOU KNOW ME BETTER THAN THAT SIR (but legit Another Earth is a fantastic movie that got zero recognition and it features a guy playing a saw which is also the sound from Cuckoo's Nest and so I've been thinking about how much I love it)

Totally, and it honestly brought me back to how much shit I've seen being thrown at Amy for her love of Clueless, which is also a SPECTACULAR film! What I think the AFI list can be better at is showing a diversity in film in all areas. We need more black directors & subjects, we need female representation, we need queer representation, and we need a diversity in genre. Paul mentioned that there are so many westerns, so many mafia, and so many Vietman movies that I'm really thinking we don't have to all consider the same kinds of movies are the best for the next 100 years. I wanna live in a world where my love of Beauty and the Beast, Clueless, The Dark Knight, All About Eve, and Another Earth can all live in harmony.

1000% yes. And I know Amy in her heart does not give a shit about what kind of movies people like and don't like, because she's not an asshole. But when we're discussing what is considered the best of film in America and then the notion that superhero movies shouldn't be considered because the person talking doesn't like them - that just feels dismissive. I don't really care for westerns but I would never argue that all westerns should be out of consideration for the Best Of lists. This really is a great episode and I really enjoyed hearing them talk together about last year's movies, and at one point they do talk about the right decisions that studios are making to hire auteur directors, but they have this conversation when talking about Lord & Miller directing Into the Spider-Verse and then completely chalk off Ryan Coogler as being lazy with the ending of Black Panther, which is a WILD opinion. Marvel is on the forefront for hiring specific people to make their specific movies. It doesn't always pay off and it may come off as not being that way, but even though I despise James Gunn, we wouldn't have Gaurdians without his vision. We wouldn't have Infinity War without the Russos giving us Winter Soldier, and we would have Ragnarok without Taika. These are veeerrrryyyyy specific films made by verrrrryyyy specific people, and it shows! Also I still stand by my statement that Winter Soldier is actually the first deserving Marvel movie to be nominated for an Oscar. Dark Knight should've also been recognized more than just Heath's stellar performance.

I usually see eye to eye on everything with Amy, but I have to say we're going to always disagree about superhero movies. Personally, it kinda chaps my ass when people say things like it's depressing or embarrassing for these films to dominate the box office, and the conversations about movies. Like Paul mentioned, there have always been trends in cinema and this is just the wave that we're currently riding, but just because someone doesn't personally like those films, that should not then make it depressing or embarrassing for the rest of the world to like those films. Marvel films are good. They are objectively good movies. Are all of them good? No, absolutely not (literally Avengers: Age of Ultron is one of the worst things I've ever had to sit through), but there are 5 I can name off the top of my head that are great movies regardless of what genre they are in. I've been seeing this so much lately that it just kind of sparks rage in me that people can be so elitist (not saying Amy is but there are hints) that they completely write off anything in a certain genre just because they themselves don't like that genre. I loved Black Panther. It wasn't my favorite of the year, but it definitely was higher than every movie listed in today's episode. It was a good fucking movie and if this hadn't been about a comic book character but rather just a dude from African royalty fighting with his Americanized cousin who is justifiably angry about the oppression of black people, then it wouldn't even be a question about the seriousness of this movie. I think the same thing about Winter Soldier, and I was so happy that Paul thought the same that it's a beautiful 70s style political thriller that changed the way these Marvel movies are made. Suddenly it didn't have to just be a copy and paste story, but now we can revolve around a certain topic and change the genre to fit that. The same way Thor: Ragnarok revitalized the story of Thor, because Taika Waititi took this story and made one of his comedies in this world. I do believe that Amy is right in that Dark Knight should probably be the one to represent the comic book movies, because that is still one of my favorite movies of all time, but if we're going to talk about the importance of these films then I don't think it's fair to have this conversation with so many qualifiers like this is just a depressing time. It's not for a lot of us. A lot of us are delighted to see the things we grew up on being properly placed on screen. Also to the point that she wishes that these weren't the ways that feminism and black & asian representation were taken seriously, we have to really look at the world we're living in currently. People talk about feminism and black lives matter all the time and they never get taken seriously, they never ever get looked at in a way where these conversations go anywhere. But the fact that Black Panther and Infinity War and Star Wars and Spider-Man are the top grossing movies in the world, then putting these things out in that fashion normalizes it in a way we could never possibly hope for. There are already a plethora of movies that I'm sure Amy has watched that beautifully touch on feminism, and black lives, and LGBTQA people, but they aren't getting shown to middle America. Black Panther is. Crazy Rich Asians is. Wonder Woman is. Until we have a government that takes all of this seriously, and until we can get smaller independent features shown to the whitest of the white parts of this country, the only way to show that hey guess what a woman doesn't need a man and black people are people too is by these blockbusters. I know I'm preaching to the choir, and I'm pretty sure Amy knows all of this anyway, but I don't like having to consistently be told that my taste in movies is lesser than just because of what genre it is. I love me a superhero flick, and I love me a gritty independent drama. I find them both to be equal in my mind.