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Episode 66 — Demolition Man: LIVE!

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In terms of the visual style and the tone of this script, did this remind anyone else of the Schumacher Batman movies?

 

There was something extremely Schumacher-y about this movie. I'm glad I wasn't the only one that thought that.

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I am amazed that no one has pointed this out: the schedule shows an inmate named Scott Peterson - but Scott Peterson didn't kill his wife until 2002. So this movie predicted Scott Peterson would be a murderer 9 years in advance.

 

Also, definitely agree that cryo-jail doesn't seem like a punishment (aside from being awake the whole time, which apparently they didn't know about). I'd love to be able to freeze myself and wake up in the future without having aged.

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Not like it matters, but Rodman worked with JCVD in "Double Team". "Simon Sez" was technically a starring vehicle for Rodman alone.

 

Ah, yes, thanks. I was probably selectively forgetting that Dennis Rodman got to star in (at least?) two movies.

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I think someone already mentioned it here, but Sandra Bullock couldn't be Stallone's daughter, she was in her 20s still and Spartan's daughter had to be around 40... Too bad, it would be creepily awesome for this movie to have a Oldboy-like ending!

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perhaps this has already been mentioned and addressed but it was Sandy Bullock's character who looked up what had happened to Stallone's wife and found she had been killed in the "BIG ONE"...wouldn't she have put 2 and 2 together if that had been her mom?

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I loved this movie as a kid and never thought of Bullock being Stallone’s daughter—mind blown. But hearing that and putting it in context with all of the other bizarre and goofy crap has given me a great new way to appreciate the movie--or just made me crazy.

 

This movie isn’t bad and nonsensical, it is amazing and makes perfect sense if you realize……….the movie is taking place in John Spartan’s mind. Jason hinted at this a little bit towards the end of the episode when he was talking about people going insane in solitary confinement. So, a la Shutter Island, Dream House (don’t watch the trailer), even a little bit of Brazil or Memento the movie we are all watching is what the protagonist is seeing/creating in their mind.

 

Hear me out. In the first 5 minutes, how is it that Spartan knows the entire warehouse and is able to eliminate every guard so easily? Because he’s repeated this sequence in his mind for 37 years, like when you play a video game level over and over and know where every bad guy is. It also explains June’s issue with Spartan’s sentencing and why he says “Skip it” repeatedly. Spartan is literally trying to skip through a boring cut scene in a video game that he’s seen a bunch of times and get to the next action sequence.

 

I’m going to take this crazy idea further and posit that Spartan killed Phoenix back in 1993, but not at the warehouse/chemical factory explosion. That event happened, Phoenix captured and killed a bus full of people. Spartan’s inability to stop Phoenix broke him, both morally and mentally. After the warehouse tragedy Spartan goes on a mission to murder Phoenix. He tracked him down and executed him and for that was sentenced to “Ice Jail.” That explains why there is no beginning to the story. No origin of Simon Phoenix, which side note that movie should be called “Rise of the Phoenix” and should be made immediately. Make it straight to DVD, Snipes needs the money after all of his tax issues.

 

The movie “Demolition Man” that we are watching is the story that Spartan’s mind has created for him. It is what happens to someone who is frozen but awake for years. Spartan’s mind is stuck in an infinite loop that makes him a hero and refines the story a little every time. Maybe in the first dream/extended hallucination Huxley was his daughter as his brain was thinking he would never get to see her again, but after many years and iterations Huxley was re-written to be a love interest instead.

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I loved this movie as a kid and never thought of Bullock being Stallone’s daughter—mind blown. But hearing that and putting it in context with all of the other bizarre and goofy crap has given me a great new way to appreciate the movie--or just made me crazy.

 

This movie isn’t bad and nonsensical, it is amazing and makes perfect sense if you realize……….the movie is taking place in John Spartan’s mind. Jason hinted at this a little bit towards the end of the episode when he was talking about people going insane in solitary confinement. So, a la Shutter Island, Dream House (don’t watch the trailer), even a little bit of Brazil or Memento the movie we are all watching is what the protagonist is seeing/creating in their mind.

 

Hear me out. In the first 5 minutes, how is it that Spartan knows the entire warehouse and is able to eliminate every guard so easily? Because he’s repeated this sequence in his mind for 37 years, like when you play a video game level over and over and know where every bad guy is. It also explains June’s issue with Spartan’s sentencing and why he says “Skip it” repeatedly. Spartan is literally trying to skip through a boring cut scene in a video game that he’s seen a bunch of times and get to the next action sequence.

 

I’m going to take this crazy idea further and posit that Spartan killed Phoenix back in 1993, but not at the warehouse/chemical factory explosion. That event happened, Phoenix captured and killed a bus full of people. Spartan’s inability to stop Phoenix broke him, both morally and mentally. After the warehouse tragedy Spartan goes on a mission to murder Phoenix. He tracked him down and executed him and for that was sentenced to “Ice Jail.” That explains why there is no beginning to the story. No origin of Simon Phoenix, which side note that movie should be called “Rise of the Phoenix” and should be made immediately. Make it straight to DVD, Snipes needs the money after all of his tax issues.

 

The movie “Demolition Man” that we are watching is the story that Spartan’s mind has created for him. It is what happens to someone who is frozen but awake for years. Spartan’s mind is stuck in an infinite loop that makes him a hero and refines the story a little every time. Maybe in the first dream/extended hallucination Huxley was his daughter as his brain was thinking he would never get to see her again, but after many years and iterations Huxley was re-written to be a love interest instead.

holy dang

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Here’s my big issue with cryo-prison movies (and Demolition Man is a BIG offender)...

 

What is the point in perfectly preserving society’s most violent criminals, in the prime of their youth, for potentially hundreds of years?

 

You spend all of this technology and resources for – what? Making sure that Charles Manson will be alive and in perfect health in the next century? What’s the point of that? Even with the hypno-programming stuff – so what? Even if Manson won’t kill anyone and can knit like a fiend – do we still want him, virtually immortal, in the future where he can take advantage of all of our future medicines and hoverboards?

 

Even if being frozen was akin to being tortured – like Spartan argued – you’re still perfectly preserving the worst of society FOR WHAT PURPOSE? If you freeze Manson into a cube and never plan to parole him and thaw him out, why did you freeze him? And, in cryo-prison movie worlds, why isn’t EVERYONE taking advantage of that tech? “Hey, everyone with cancer, let’s go get frozen until they come up with a cure.” “Hey, I’m a rich moron who wants to travel to Mars, I’m gonna freeze myself until interstellar space travel is perfected.” But NO, in those movies, we only ever freeze hardened criminals and/or roughnecks with a date with a planet full of facehuggers.

 

It would make more sense if Cocteau had built the year-sucking machine from The Princess Bride – THAT would be a punishment. “Hey, asshole who killed that guy, we just took 20 years from you, don’t do that shit again.” But freezing them in perfect health, so that they can never age and one day live in a utopia, filled with yarn stores and shit-covered seashells? What’s the point?

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Holy shit I just thought of something that would be a crazier theory than Bullock being Sly's daughter. Now that the leader of San Angeles is dead and Spartan is basically the de facto leader of the city, people don't know how to handle their new society with the underground community joining them. Things seem to get stabilized at first with both groups finding a middle ground, but something like that doesn't last for long. Eventually war breaks out leading to a new nuclear arms race which culminates in most life on Earth being decimated and the remaining survivors creating giant Mega Cities to live in under the watchful eyes of Judges.

 

The Chief Justices, needing the perfect Judges, create test tube clones using DNA of the best Judges they ever had, the original survivors, including John Spartan and Edgar Friendly. Judge Dredd gets the bulk of his identity from the law abiding, but deadly Spartan while Rico gets most of his from the revolutionary Friendly. The eventual happens where Rico goes crazy fighting against the law and is sent to Aspen, where because of a deal set up with corrupt Chief Judge Griffin, he gets a specialized cell rather than what is used for criminals of his caliber, the cryo-tubes which are kept cold using the natural environment of Aspen. Rico escapes and Judge Dredd the film plays out even including Rob Schnieder's distant offspring who took to a life of crime after his ancestor's didn't know how to handle a not so "joy-joy" life.

 

So in the end, Dredd is a clone/relative of John Spartan, which explains why both movies are eerily similar to one another.

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Holy shit I just thought of something that would be a crazier theory than Bullock being Sly's daughter. Now that the leader of San Angeles is dead and Spartan is basically the de facto leader of the city, people don't know how to handle their new society with the underground community joining them. Things seem to get stabilized at first with both groups finding a middle ground, but something like that doesn't last for long. Eventually war breaks out leading to a new nuclear arms race which culminates in most life on Earth being decimated and the remaining survivors creating giant Mega Cities to live in under the watchful eyes of Judges.

 

The Chief Justices, needing the perfect Judges, create test tube clones using DNA of the best Judges they ever had, the original survivors, including John Spartan and Edgar Friendly. Judge Dredd gets the bulk of his identity from the law abiding, but deadly Spartan while Rico gets most of his from the revolutionary Friendly. The eventual happens where Rico goes crazy fighting against the law and is sent to Aspen, where because of a deal set up with corrupt Chief Judge Griffin, he gets a specialized cell rather than what is used for criminals of his caliber, the cryo-tubes which are kept cold using the natural environment of Aspen. Rico escapes and Judge Dredd the film plays out even including Rob Schnieder's distant offspring who took to a life of crime after his ancestor's didn't know how to handle a not so "joy-joy" life.

 

So in the end, Dredd is a clone/relative of John Spartan, which explains why both movies are eerily similar to one another.

 

That is literally next level bonkers

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HEY MANIAC!

 

BVksJTr.jpg

 

Wyatt killed it. He was very cool and grounded, like June. And I was so on board with June this episode, because she was asking the question I wanted to know: what is going on in the rest of the world?

 

So much in this movie that they didn't even get to the central point the film hinged on -- at least, as I understood it -- why was it necessary for Mayor Cocteau to cryo-train and then thaw out Phoenix in order to kill Edgar Friendly (Denis Leary)? Surely there was a better method? What exactly was Cocteau's 5-year plan?

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That is literally next level bonkers

 

Like Stallone wasn't think this exact same thing when he made Judge Dredd.

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HEY MANIAC!

 

Oh yeah, that reminds me, the whole "send a maniac to catch a maniac" thing had to be the inspiration for the infamous Fast 6 wolf scenario, right?

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-It's interesting that the International version changes lines about Taco Bell to lines about Pizza Hut, when they are in fact, owned by the same company (along with KFC). I actually live not far from a Taco Bell/Pizza Hut combined restaurant. You would think these restaurants would have banded together during the Franchise Wars, but perhaps this was like the Civil War, pitting franchise brother against brother?

 

There are only a handfull of Taco Bells in Europe and there were even less in the 90s. Pizza Hut is a far bigger international brand. Makes sense to change this in the international version.

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I still never quite understood why the police chief always called stallone a neanderthal. There are LITERALLY people still on the police force that worked with stallone.

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Whoa, da fuck did I just watch?

 

So Spartan flies into a burning Los Angeles in a military helicopter. He's strapped to the gills with... whatever that is on his para-military special ops uniform... bungies in solo to murder/death/kill all of anything moving.... and yet, afterwards the head of the LAPD says "Dammit Spartan, I am tired of this demolition man shit! You are not supposed to come down here. You are not supposed to attempt the arrest of Phoenix single handedly, and you are not supposed to blow anything up!"

 

I guess my explaination hope is: how the fuck did he get that helicopter to fly him over a flaming city without anyone stopping him? Did he sneak it away along with a pilot and co-pilot? Are there just Chinook's lying about in the LAPD parking lot with the keys in the ignition? Also, how was a one man kill spree the chosen method of dealing with a hostage situation?

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I can see why people get into watching this...I watched Idiocracy recently so it was fun to see how they handled the "hero out of time" here. Of course, making it a few hundred years makes sense although I guess we are to believe that the great earthquake caused some sort of mass trauma but they really had to drive it home here...It was fun to watch Snipes just be a consummate asshole psychopath on all levels - ching-chong bing bong! My favorite was how Stallone was completely baffled by this "future" while Snipes could just bang on a keyboard and (randomly?) hack into all the info. he needed. Getting those guns to work was ridonkulous...

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The unfortunate thing about this movie is that, despite the number of unnecessarily long expressions used for simple words, it failed to predict the use of "explanation hope".

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Well apparently the "Bullock being Stallone's daughter" theory is a no go as after listening to the episode again and hearing where Snipes does his ching-chong bit, a second before that the PA in the museum goes on about how the great earthquake was in 2010, so Stallones daughter would have been at least 15 by the time his wife was killed in the quake. So if that's the case then it is one of a few possible options:

 

1. Bullock is not his daughter and Stallone just decides to live his life while his daughter lives her life not realizing her dad is walking around a free man ignoring her existence.

 

2. Bullock is his daughter and has a daddy fetish and wants to reverse Oldboy him.

 

3. Bullock spent time in cryo-prison for an unknown crime, hence her young appearance, and is Stallone's daughter but doesn't realize it.

 

4. Bullock has amnesia after the earthquake and doesn't know, and casting screwed up in making her look older.

 

And amazingly, any of these options seem possible.

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I still stand by my theory that there has to be anti-aging tech that makes Bullock look 29 but be 45. I would also believe that Stallone's wife would have become bitter after her husband was imprisoned and just outright refuses to talk about him OR that Stallone's wife and Baby Bullock were seperated shortly after his imprisonment via kidnapping.

 

Also, Sandra Bullock wound up being the only cast member to get a Razzie Nod for Worst Supporting Actress, which is a travesty.

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I had to Google to see if others also felt that Sandy B must be the daughter of Spartan...

 

Apparently, according to the dvd commentary they filmed stuff with the daughter but threw it out for time.

 

This lady on the right is supposedly her...

sq0XJ.jpg

 

 

http://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/10113/who-is-the-daughter-of-john-spartan-in-demolition-man

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I COULD be wrong, but I think that the comic adaptation DID have the Bullock character being his daughter. Comic adaptations and novelizations are often based on earlier drafts of the script or incomplete versions of the film. They often contain "deleted" or alternate scenes containing dropped subplots, characters, or even important plot points that don't make it into the final film

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Also, definitely agree that cryo-jail doesn't seem like a punishment (aside from being awake the whole time, which apparently they didn't know about). I'd love to be able to freeze myself and wake up in the future without having aged.

 

I think that the idea of the sentence indicates punishment, but there are clearly rehabilitation elements to the cryo-prison

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