EPISODE 119 - Maximum Overdrive: LIVE!

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Speaking of The Shining, King described Kubrick's Wendy as "one of the most misogynistic characters ever put on film. She's basically just there to scream and be stupid." I wish Yeardley Smith was just there to scream and be stupid, but she was so much worse. I wonder if King knew how anger-making Smith's character is. Maybe it was delibrate. Maybe King was like "See? See? That's basically Wendy from The Shining. Annoying, right?!"

 

BTW, I don't find Kubrick's Wendy a misogynistic character. Wendy's behavior is symptomatic of someone in an abusive relationship, and, at the end, symptomatic of someone being chased by an axe-wielding madman.

 

First of all, awesome segue from Maximum Overdrive's bathroom scene to talking about The Shining. That's some high-caliber forum posting right there. Bravo!

 

Also, I am in total agreement with you regarding Wendy in The Shining--gender be damned. That's how I would act in a similar situation. It kind of goes into something that I feel is a problem with Stephen King's writing--and, yes, I know he has a lot of fans out there (deservedly so).

When it comes to The Shining and Wendy's portrayal I have issues with what seemed to happen in real life. Kubrick was notoriously horrible to Shelley Duvall and even physically abused her in order to produce the kind of hysterics that he wanted her to be in. I haven't read the book (actually I've only ever read Carrie and I loved it) but maybe when he was picturing the woman he was writing he wasn't picturing a woman who was in hysterics the entire time.

 

The issue now with some men telling other men that they are being misogynistic (oh hey still looking at you Whedon) is that they aren't actually accounting for how many kinds of women there are in this world. If I was married to an alcoholic man that hit me and my child and then went bat shit crazy and tried to kill me I would be screaming and crying too. But there are women out there that would jump to action and grab their child with one hand and a knife with the other and kick the shit out of the guy! Neither is more accurate than the other.

 

I do believe that back when it was made it was much easier to put a woman on film that seemed "weaker" and unable to fight for herself which is pretty awful, but looking back on it today it's hard to say that she still isn't a real life woman who acted in a very real way.

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

 

 

Yeah right, and next you're going to tell me that someone has already brought up that the guy that gets electrocuted in the arcade is Gus from Breaking Bad...

Or that King was coked out of his mind!

[DavidThiel 5]

Amazed that no one has mentioned the one legitimately clever bit in this film: the tune played by the ice cream truck in the death montage is "King of the Road."

[Cameron H. 23786]

Or that King was coked out of his mind!

 

Y'know something, I am a bit tired of that refrain--at least as far as this movie is concerned. Look, I'm not trying to diminish that he may have had a serious drug problem in the 80's (nor am I trying to diminish drug addiction in general), but if you read Blake Harris' article, everyone seemed relatively shocked that he said he was so coked out he couldn't remember filming this movie. At worst, one of the people involved kind of said, "I guess so, but it was the eighties, everyone was doing coke..."

 

Considering the breadth and scope of artistic accomplishments people throughout history have achieved while high as fuck,* I think it's a pretty lame excuse. Isn't it more likely that the movie sucked because Stephen King is a novelist, had no real filmmaking experience, and had no business directing a major motion picture?

 

And I'm not trying to say he didn't have a problem. I'm just saying, if you're trying to protect your ego, what's a better excuse when you want to disavow a piece of work that was critically despised: "Yeah, just because I'm a successful novelist doesn't mean I had any business behind that camera" or "You know, had I not been so gosh darned high on the coke, it would have been a better movie. Gee, I don't even remember making it. Isn't that crazy?"

 

I just find the whole "coke" excuse to be highly suspect. I mean, he's been sober for how long? Why hasn't he tried again? Oh, he has no interest in that now? Oh, okay--I get you. *wink*

 

*I'm not advocating, just stating a fact.

[LeifEric 2]

long time, first time. 2 thoughts:

 

1. i really liked emilio's response to the electric knife attack. He really channeled his inner-caveman and just bashed the hell out of that thing with the kitchen hammer. Is that really the first thought you have when an electronic device short circuits? Office Space??

 

2. as an eagle scout, i'm certain there's no way that a summer camp merit badge would adequately equip that young man to frantically decipher dots and dashes into perfectly formed sentences. FYI, even if he could keep up with the speed of the flatbead murder truck, his tara ried chicken scratch should appear as a constant line of letters with no spaces.

 

i really love this show, thanks so much for everything you do!

[DavidThiel 5]

I remember that in interviews at the time Stephen King referred to this as a "moron movie." I always suspected that he made that determination after the fact.

 

Haven't seen this film in decades, but back in the day I too was annoyed with its inconsistency regarding machine sentience. I recall a scene in which characters climbed into a car without even questioning whether said vehicle might try to kill them.

 

The carving knife scene also annoyed me. I can accept that a malevolent car or lawn mower might be able to prowl around and attack people, but an electric knife has no means of locomotion. All it can do is hum menacingly.

 

I preferred the short story's lack of an explanation for the phenomenon. The moment a pseudo-scientific rationale is introduced, then all of those questions about how the trucks can see or how they know Morse code are fair game. Without one, you can always assume supernatural forces, and then it's no big deal if the carving knife launches itself across the room.

 

The original "Twilight Zone" series had an episode called "A Thing About Machines" in which various appliances ganged up on the protagonist. There was no explanation there either, but it was established that their victim had always hated machines and frequently wrecked them out of frustration. My favorite scene was when the electric razor descended the stairs, dragging its cord behind it like a cobra.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

 

First of all, awesome segue from Maximum Overdrive's bathroom scene to talking about The Shining. That's some high-caliber forum posting right there. Bravo!

 

Also, I am in total agreement with you regarding Wendy in The Shining--gender be damned. That's how I would act in a similar situation. It kind of goes into something that I feel is a problem with Stephen King's writing--and, yes, I know he has a lot of fans out there (deservedly so).

 

My problem with Stephan King has always been he has never really been all that great at writing believable or relatable characters. Sometimes it's like he's an alien trying to mimic human emotions and behavior. In some way or another, his characters have always came off to me as more rough caricatures of how he thinks "The Everyman" speaks and acts--with no basis on how people actually speak and act in real life (see: road twitch). It's a big reason why I stopped reading his books ages ago. I mean, when he's on, he's on--he tells some fantastic yarns--but oof!, when he's off, it's some next level bad.

So, I was thinking about this earlier today. I'm not really sure how to say this, so it's really going to be me more thinking "out loud" than anything else.

 

Basically, I think there are two possibilities here. Either

 

1) he struggles with dialogue as many writers do, even those who write best-selling novels that are otherwise decently written (*cough* George RR Martin *cough*)

 

Or:

 

2) he's spent so much of his time trying to hone this weirdo persona that he's forgotten how to behave like a normal person. Especially during the 80s and early 90s, most public appearances from him just seem like that kid in high school REALLY trying to be creepy but just ending up looking like they're trying to hard (for example, that "I have a heart of a young boy" line from the interview they played on this ep). I really never found him all that creepy, but I thought, like, Cameron said, he can tell good stories. I kind of wonder if he felt like that was a necessary public persona or something. If you look at him now, he certainly doesn't act like that, but he can be a creepy figure. For example, his guest spot on Sons of Anarchy was pretty awesome. Part of that might have been because he barely had any lines, but I don't know. What do you guys think?

 

Stephan King

That's the alter ego Stephen King gets from drinking Cool Juice, right? It stifles his nerd genes and turns him into someone that looks exactly like him but dresses better and doesn't wear glasses.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

That's the alter ego Stephen King gets from drinking Cool Juice, right? It stifles his nerd genes and turns him into someone that looks exactly like him but dresses better and doesn't wear glasses.

 

 

Thanks for catching that! I actually meant to write "Stefon."

 

[FisterRoboto 7499]

The original "Twilight Zone" series had an episode called "A Thing About Machines" in which various appliances ganged up on the protagonist. There was no explanation there either, but it was established that their victim had always hated machines and frequently wrecked them out of frustration. My favorite scene was when the electric razor descended the stairs, dragging its cord behind it like a cobra.

Twilight Zone did that a LOT (not trying to explain why stuff is weird or fucked up; just letting it be weird and/or fucked up), and it's part of why it was awesome.

[Auden 1809]

That's the alter ego Stephen King gets from drinking Cool Juice, right? It stifles his nerd genes and turns him into someone that looks exactly like him but dresses better and doesn't wear glasses.

 

 

 

 

 

[media='']

[/media]

 

This 5-min sketch is more gripping than the entire Maximum Overdrive.

 

ETA: God, this sketch is brilliant.

[Auden 1809]

First of all, awesome segue from Maximum Overdrive's bathroom scene to talking about The Shining. That's some high-caliber forum posting right there. Bravo!

Thank you! I couldn't have done it without your post. It's like you set up the volleyball for me to hit. Or, it's like you pushed a step stool next to a stall so that I could hop up on it and look down.

 

My problem with Stephan King has always been he has never really been all that great at writing believable or relatable characters. Sometimes it's like he's an alien trying to mimic human emotions and behavior. In some way or another, his characters have always came off to me as more rough caricatures of how he thinks "The Everyman" speaks and acts--with no basis on how people actually speak and act in real life (see: road twitch).

Dude. I was JUST thinking recently about how King doesn't write characters, he writes archetypes.

 

I've stopped reading King's books too, for the same reasons as you did. And also I find his prose workmanlike. Because of HDTGM, I bought a short story collection of King for the story Trucks (I like to read the book before I watch the movie). I've no interest in reading the rest of the collection.

 

Isn't it more likely that the movie sucked because Stephen King is a novelist, had no real filmmaking experience, and had no business directing a major motion picture?

It's not just his directing either. His screenplay isn't good. There's a reason why authors rarely adapt their own work. In the past couple of years, King wrote the screenplay for his novella, A Good Marriage. The reviews are lukewarm.

 

Guys, if you are looking for a new horror writer to read, might I suggest the screenwriter for Beetlejuice, Michael McDowell? (He also worked on The Nightmare Before Christmas before his death.) His Southern Gothic Horror is lyrical, wryly funny, and yes, scary. And filled with interesting characters. His books have been out-of-print for a while but recently the small publisher Valancourt has resurrected McDowell's books. I wish I were a movie mogul, then I could option McDowell's The Elementals. It has one of the best teenage heroines I've come across. Valancourt also reprinted Robert Marasco's Burnt Offerings. It's a great haunted house story. The movie adaptation is quite good too.

[Auden 1809]

When it comes to The Shining and Wendy's portrayal I have issues with what seemed to happen in real life. Kubrick was notoriously horrible to Shelley Duvall and even physically abused her in order to produce the kind of hysterics that he wanted her to be in.

Jesus Christ, that's awful.

 

I haven't read the book (actually I've only ever read Carrie and I loved it) but maybe when he was picturing the woman he was writing he wasn't picturing a woman who was in hysterics the entire time.

I don't remember anything about book Wendy, I only have a vague impression that she's not like movie Wendy.

 

It's worth noting that The Shining is a v. personal work for King. Jack Torrance struggled with alcoholism just like King did. Jack was a good man steadily destroyed by the disease. However, in the movie, right from the get go, Jack was unpleasant and unbalanced.

 

The issue now with some men telling other men that they are being misogynistic (oh hey still looking at you Whedon) is that they aren't actually accounting for how many kinds of women there are in this world. If I was married to an alcoholic man that hit me and my child and then went bat shit crazy and tried to kill me I would be screaming and crying too. But there are women out there that would jump to action and grab their child with one hand and a knife with the other and kick the shit out of the guy! Neither is more accurate than the other.

Agreed. The problem with designating the woman who fights back as the Strong Female Character is that it puts the onus of stopping abuse on the victim. The woman who endures isn't weak, the woman who is killed isn't weak. The only weak person is the abuser. Also these SFCs usually have paper-thin characterizations and are defined by violence and figure-hugging wardrobe. It's all very fetishistic.

 

(pic source)

[IMAHUGEHDTGMFAN 1837]

This is sorta bumb but... Did anyone noticed that the opening crawl and the first scene is in real time?

 

Because it states that Rhea-M began passing the earth at 9:47am then we get the pan down shot of the bank and before the sign starts with the "FUCK / YOU" it reads 9:48. Talk about attention to a dumb detail but disregard for pretty much everything else...

[the baa detective 64]

WARNING

This episode contains a spoiler for the Breaking Bad finale.

Skip from 1:23:00 to 1:24:00 to avoid being spoiled.

Too late...

[the baa detective 64]

I think the machines population generally saw passenger cars/ sedans as traitors, because they have a very intimate relationship with mankind, especially comparing to other vehicles. I mean, when we hear people say: "Your car defines you" or "What kind of car are you driving?" the first image pop into our head is generally not a truck.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I don't remember anything about book Wendy, I only have a vague impression that she's not like movie Wendy.

 

It's worth noting that The Shining is a v. personal work for King. Jack Torrance struggled with alcoholism just like King did. Jack was a good man steadily destroyed by the disease. However, in the movie, right from the get go, Jack was unpleasant and unbalanced.

Danny was also written in the image of his son so maybe he wrote Wendy with his wife in mind and he knew she was stronger than they portrayed her??? Idk I'm trying to find reason within it all lol.

 

Also side-note but still related... the character of Delbert Grady was actually based on my uncle's former boss from when he was a teenager. He grew up in the town that the Stanley Hotel is in and apparently Stephen King told everyone that this guy was the craziest motherfucker he had ever met. My aunt said it was so true because he was waaay too proud of being the inspiration for a character that killed his wife and children in the story. (If anyone listens to Bizarre States they read this as part of their listener stories last week but I wasn't really comfortable with them saying my name with it). But they did say the dude made the best pancakes they've ever eaten. Clearly insanity is a great cooking ingredient.

 

Agreed. The problem with designating the woman who fights back as the Strong Female Character is that it puts the onus of stopping abuse on the victim. The woman who endures isn't weak, the woman who is killed isn't weak. The only weak person is the abuser. Also these SFCs usually have paper-thin characterizations and are defined by violence and figure-hugging wardrobe. It's all very fetishistic.

 

(pic source)

Kate Beaton is my hero and I applaud the use of this image. It's all so true about the SFC archetype and men writing them. Not to totally divert back to the AoU conversation from the mini-thread but I think that line of thinking was part of Whedon's downfall with that movie tbh.

[Lando 2019]

2) he's spent so much of his time trying to hone this weirdo persona that he's forgotten how to behave like a normal person. Especially during the 80s and early 90s, most public appearances from him just seem like that kid in high school REALLY trying to be creepy but just ending up looking like they're trying to hard (for example, that "I have a heart of a young boy" line from the interview they played on this ep). I really never found him all that creepy, but I thought, like, Cameron said, he can tell good stories. I kind of wonder if he felt like that was a necessary public persona or something. If you look at him now, he certainly doesn't act like that, but he can be a creepy figure. For example, his guest spot on Sons of Anarchy was pretty awesome. Part of that might have been because he barely had any lines, but I don't know. What do you guys think?

 

Funny, going back to the Runaway episode I had very similar thoughts about Gene Simmons. For Simmons I thought that it might be what happens to a guy who was unpopular growing up and suddenly becomes very popular (but I don't really know his background since I have never really cared for KISS).

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Kate Beaton is my hero and I applaud the use of this image. It's all so true about the SFC archetype and men writing them. Not to totally divert back to the AoU conversation from the mini-thread but I think that line of thinking was part of Whedon's downfall with that movie tbh.

Beaton's Strong Female Characters and her Straw Feminists are two of my favorite things ever.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Okay does anyone remember The Mangler? Stephen King's story about the laundry machine coming to life and killing people. Also never read the story but I saw the movie years ago and it made no sense to me. I remember my mom told me she read that story though and could not believe that it just ended with the machine getting up and literally walking down the street. I need to rewatch the movie just to see if they actually put that in there.

 

[the baa detective 64]

Stephen King dedicated Gerald's Game to his wife and her sisters. Gerald's Game! Come on! It's a novel about a trophy wife who got handcuffed to a bed in a cabin alone in the middle of nowhere after a SM game had gone horribly wrong; she later was forced to give herself a degloving injury so to get out of the cuff before a serial killer could kill her! For God's sake! Can't you dedicate other novels your wife and her sisters?! Something, like, I don't know...Christine or Cujo?

 

By the way, Stephen King said in an interview he would like to director again if he could; and if he could, he would like to direct Gerald's Game

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Okay does anyone remember The Mangler? Stephen King's story about the laundry machine coming to life and killing people. Also never read the story but I saw the movie years ago and it made no sense to me. I remember my mom told me she read that story though and could not believe that it just ended with the machine getting up and literally walking down the street. I need to rewatch the movie just to see if they actually put that in there.

I do! I actually mentioned it briefly in the minisode thread because the short story was one of the first things I remember reading and thinking, "Man, this is really, really stupid"

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I do! I actually mentioned it briefly in the minisode thread because the short story was one of the first things I remember reading and thinking, "Man, this is really, really stupid"

I must have been distracted by the AoU bitching and Star Wars gifs lol.

 

Is it stupid in a HDTGM way? Basically will I be entertained by the awfulness of it if I decide to give it a read?

[Cameron H. 23786]

I had to delete a post I was going to write earlier regarding SFC's, and while my intentions were pure, I realized I was treading dangerously close to what might be construed as "mansplaining." Who the fuck am I? Matt Damon???

 

 

Suffice it to say, I agree with everything Auden and Taylor Anne have said and would happily double down on all of their points regarding Strong Female Characters.

 

 

 

Funny, going back to the Runaway episode I had very similar thoughts about Gene Simmons. For Simmons I thought that it might be what happens to a guy who was unpopular growing up and suddenly becomes very popular (but I don't really know his background since I have never really cared for KISS).

 

This is pretty much my take on Stephen King. I suspect he was an introverted, "geeky" kind of kid, but nobody wants to read stories about "geeky" people. I think that he thinks people want to read stories about people who didn't necessarily grow up on the periphery of normal human interaction. Because of this, I find most of his characters tend to be his weirdo interpretation of what "normal" people are like. And, by God, is he wrong a lot of the time.

 

 

Edited: I realized, "Who am I, Matt Damon?" came off like I was asking Matt Damon to tell me who I am. Although I'm relatively confident he'd absolutely have no problem telling me exactly who I am...

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I had to delete a post I was going to write earlier regarding SFC's, and while my intentions were pure, I realized I was treading dangerously close to what might be construed as "mansplaining." Who the fuck am I, Matt Damon???

 

Holy shit I did not hear about the Matt Damon thing and just had to google it. Wow Matt Damon... wow. If there is ever a time when he should just be his character from Team America it's now.

 

 

Anyway, Cameron I appreciate you super hard.

[Auden 1809]

Thanks for catching that! I actually meant to write "Stefon."

Stefon King is oddly apt. Stefon's clubs are nightmarish.

 

Also side-note but still related... the character of Delbert Grady was actually based on my uncle's former boss from when he was a teenager. He grew up in the town that the Stanley Hotel is in and apparently Stephen King told everyone that this guy was the craziest motherfucker he had ever met. My aunt said it was so true because he was waaay too proud of being the inspiration for a character that killed his wife and children in the story. (If anyone listens to Bizarre States they read this as part of their listener stories last week but I wasn't really comfortable with them saying my name with it). But they did say the dude made the best pancakes they've ever eaten. Clearly insanity is a great cooking ingredient.

Oh wow! What an interesting addition to The Shining lore. Thanks for sharing!

 

It's all so true about the SFC archetype and men writing them. Not to totally divert back to the AoU conversation from the mini-thread but I think that line of thinking was part of Whedon's downfall with that movie tbh.

I suspect many critics of SFCs have Whedon in mind.

 

For Simmons I thought that it might be what happens to a guy who was unpopular growing up and suddenly becomes very popular (but I don't really know his background since I have never really cared for KISS).

Something about Gene Simmons screams nerdsville to me.

 

Okay does anyone remember The Mangler? Stephen King's story about the laundry machine coming to life and killing people. Also never read the story but I saw the movie years ago and it made no sense to me. I remember my mom told me she read that story though and could not believe that it just ended with the machine getting up and literally walking down the street. I need to rewatch the movie just to see if they actually put that in there.

I bet the washing machine drives people to suicides by eating up quarters, bleaching their clothes and not completing the spin cycle. *shudders*

 

The Mangler is in the same short story collection that has Trucks--Night Shift. Oh, and it also has Children of the Corn and The Man Who Loved Flowers. I guess I'm not done with the book yet. My library has 4 copies of Night Shift in its catalogue. 3 are lost and one is library use only. I had to buy mine.