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Knock-Out Suggestions

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I don't know if Amy and Devin want to poll this in any particular way, but if only to get a feel for where this is going to head. As our perceptions and listenership changes, so do our definitions of the canon. Approaching 100 episodes of this series, which picture least adheres to acceptable levels of canonocity? What films just need to be ejected from the canon?

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CLERKS please. The episode kind of talked about Slacker half as much as Clerks, and now that Slacker is in the Canon, does its not-so-good derivative really deserve it as well?

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How about a versus episode between some of the past winners March Madness style and streamline the list a little bit?

 

Alien vs. The Thing, for example? (The Thing blows Alien out of the water, BTW)

 

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Cannibal Holocaust would be the easiest to make a case against. Almost too easy, in fact.

 

I think Antichrist is a ludicrous film, even by Von Trier's standards. I'd rather have an argument against a complicated piece of art like that, instead of something low brow like Cannibal Holocaust or Re-Animator.

 

Creed is a much better film than Chi-raq, for fucks sake. Are we really going to have late period Spike Lee? I love him, but his lesser work shouldn't get a pass.

 

First Blood went up against Rocky, which is a travesty because they're both very strong films. First Blood is every bit as important as The Deer Hunter, maybe even more relevant today -- I think the John Rambo of that film is more tragic and relatable now in the wake of the massive US deployment in the Middle East, as well as Columbine and the media fascination with shooters and domestic terrorists.

 

Is there a master list of what's in and out? Polls here were adopted a little while after the transition from Wolfpop, so the forums here are missing a lot.

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My top (or bottom, I suppose) four:

 

1) The Usual Suspects

2) Re-Animator

3) They Live

4) Stand By Me

 

I like both They Live and Re-Animator but I feel like neither are at the level of canon-worthy and that the bar for horror films to get in right now is really, really low, unfortunately, especially compared to other genres where good movies on the same level have been soundly rejected.

 

Stand By Me just got in so I assume it's pretty safe.

 

The Usual Suspects is the only one out of the four, and one of the only few movies ever discussed, that I will argue is a straight up bad movie. I wasn't around here when it got voted in so I don't know how the split was but I hope in my lifetime I can see this movie get left in the dust when people remember 90s filmmaking.

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Yeah. For me, it's Working Girl, Two-Lane Blacktop, and Re-Animator. The last one is important, because I really don't think that was a fair induction.

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CLERKS please. The episode kind of talked about Slacker half as much as Clerks, and now that Slacker is in the Canon, does its not-so-good derivative really deserve it as well?

 

I think this is a good approach to take to this. Instead of looking back at which films were "mistakes" or "the least worthy", look back at which ones are just least essential given what has gone up and in since (of course, that would be leaning towards the earlier films, particularly from the first 50 episodes).

 

Cannibal Holocaust AND Blair Witch?

Slacker AND Clerks?

 

EDIT: Also, even though they came out two episodes apart, what are Se7en and Usual Suspects BOTH doing in there?

 

Then again, how do you debate the merits of Clerks vs Cannibal Holocaust?

 

The other fun thing would be to pick two randomly, "live" on the air during Episode 99. Devin and/or Amy might have to argue against a film they actually like, simply because they like the other more. Just like The Fly vs The Thing, that was a great episode full of passion and pain. Anything but just bashing on Working Girl for the umpteeth time or dredging up Kevin Smith so soon after Yoga Hosers (which, we all know, Devin would bring up no less than fourteen times). If D&A get to choose their own movies, it would just feel like re-living those episodes again. Would Amy have anything new to say about Two Lane Blacktop if she sees it again? Doubtful. So what's the point?

 

EDIT: Also, let us leave the indulgence picks out. They both got in, Devin and Amy can feel warm and fuzzy about that, they should be immune from prosecution.

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Been listening to this show since its inception and decided to finally jump on the boards and polls. Out of all the movies currently in the Canon, the inclusion of Chi-Raq is the one that I see as having the least reason for inclusion. I get that certain theme within the film are obviously incredibly relevant, but that does not make it necessarily a Canon worthy movie (Creed definitely has more Canon worthiness just for its representation as a way to make a reboot/sequel right). There's plenty more Spike Lee films that are more Canon worthy, i feel like just because it's a strong latter Spike Lee joint (had to do it) and is relevant doesn't mean it belongs.

I would nominate Clerk for excision from the Canon, but due to my intense hatred for Kevin Smith I find that my personal feelings will just get in the way of a logical discussion.

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Re-Animator and Working Girl are the only two I've seen that I would easily nominate. This thread is making me realize most of the really unpopular ones were before my time with the podcast. I'm tempted to catch myself up, but that sounds like a really awful way to spend a Saturday.

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It feels weird to nominate Pennies From Heaven & Stand By Me since they just got voted in so recently. I would say the same about Re-Animator, but that had some *ahem* extenuating circumstances (and who's to say Devin wouldn't do the same again ??)

 

Chi-Raq is interesting because it was the year-end episode vs Creed, but votes were significantly divided by write-in candidate Tangerine. But I actually voted for Chi-Raq, and I ain't gonna flip flop now (a flawed film for sure, but I still love the ambition & chutzpah, and how funny and entertaining it was). 'Best of the year' episodes are weird anyways since we're trying to guess if a super-recent movie will stand the test of time.

 

I'm more in favor of other inductees that have had a while to breathe and settle in, and now we can truly recognize the funky smell they've left behind - I second the suggestions of Cannibal Holocaust, Clerks, Animal House, Two-Lane Blacktop, & Antichrist (in order of preference).

 

...and, knowing full well I'm in the minority, quiet votes for Seven and Battle Royale.

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Easy:

- Cannibal Holocaust

- Re-Animator

 

I am still upset those made it into the Canon

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I'd probably go with:

Pennies From Heaven

Cannibal Holocaust

The Grand Budapest Hotel (honestly, too soon)

Annie Hall (that's right, I said it)

Boyz n the Hood (still laughing at Eazy E calling it an "after shool special")

 

Personally, I do not want an indulgence "vs.". I like when A&D disagree, but an indulgence "vs." argument would probably be too mean and personal and not fun.

 

That said, if Re-Animator goes and that god-awful Pennies stays...then this meaningless list of films will be rendered meaningless. Maybe if one goes then both should go? I mean a lot of people in the thread said they only voted for Pennies because "Devin's indulgence got in so...". Either that, or make the (yearly?) indulgence picks immune? I don't know, I just want to keep the podcast fun.

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Chi-Raq is my first, second, third, fourth, etc. choice for a movie to kick out of the Canon. Sure, the Re-Animator vote was a little funky, and there are some other movies (Se7en, Kiki's Delivery Service) that I don't like, but being from Chicago, the "legacy" of Spike Lee's movie is that it preaches platitudes to a city it doesn't even pretend to understand. (The thought of the North and South Sides of Chicago engaging in gang warfare is absurd.) I'm not even saying that 2015 movies shouldn't be inducted -- I would have happily voted for Sicario, Cartel Land, Carol, The Look of Silence, It Follows, etc. But the thought of Chi-Raq in our canon boils my blood more than any mid-tier boys-club genre picture ever could.

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I'm kind of against this move. There are some movies I think oughtn't be in, but I feel like this is just gonna end up being used to 'class up' The Canon and remove something that doesn't look as 'nice' or prestigious next to the film school curriculum inductees. I would much rather give some more of the old Vs losers a chance to get in.

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Gonna fight tooth and nail to keep Cannibal Holocaust in-I've seen gorier and more "shocking" films but this is one that's always stuck with me. There's an unforgettable ugliness to it that I haven't seen a lot of other films reach-it's something I'd tell people who can stomach it to see at least once.

 

Chi-Raq's probably gonna get the axe which is fair because it's not a great film, but I'm gonna go against the grain here and also suggest The Usual Suspects. The Shawshank Redemption of thrillers I swear-perfectly "fine" but in no way one of the greats.

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Expanding on my earlier post mentioning how easy it is for horror to get into the Canon: 12 horror movies have been discussed on the show so far and 9 have got in. The three that didn't (Aliens, Let Me In, The Fly) only missed out because they were in Vs. episodes against other horror movies -- funnily enough the action oriented Aliens lost to the more horror leaning Alien.

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Voting out Chi-Raq will not make those other movies magically appear in The Canon! I'm just not a fan of the "there are better/more important alternatives, so forget about this one" argument (essentially what guest Michael Lerman was saying in defense of Antichrist, if I'm remembering my episodes). I think it's great late-period Lee. But whatever, agree to disagree. Just know if it gets voted out I'll have a stern (yet lyrical) rhyming monologue of disappointment ready to go.

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