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Episode 166 - Timecop: LIVE!

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Nick Kroll (Oh, Hello on Broadway, The House) returns to join Paul, June, and Jason to discuss the 1994 Jean-Claude Van Damme movie Timecop. Recorded live from Austin, Texas, they cover JCVD’s grief mullet, actor/activist Ron Silver’s nut work, the confusing time travel, and much more.

 

 

Check out the HDTGM Art Show over at Gallery 1988 (www.gallery1988.com).

Check out new HDTGM merch over at https://www.teepublic.com/user/howdidthisgetmade

Where to Find Jason, June & Paul:

Paul’s new comedy Drive Share is available on Go90. Paul can be seen on Veep. You can see June and Paul on NTSF:SD:SUV:: on HULU. June stars in Grace and Frankie on Netflix, as well as Lady Dynamite alongside with Jason.

 

Jason can be seen in The House, The Lego Batman Movie, How to Be Single, Sleeping with Other People, and is still indeed in The Dictator.

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The biggest issue I have with the logic of this glorious film, is that we are clearly told that we can’t travel into the future; only into the past. But if the past is effected… then technically the future has been adjusted. This would mean the future is unreachable by any timecop who effects the past.

 

For example, when JCVD goes back to October 30, 1929 to arrest his ex-partner… a major shoot out takes place in the office. No memories are erased of those innocent bystanders. In fact there are even more people who witness two individuals falling out of a window, disappear in mid-air, and then :30-:60 mins later, one returns to complete the fall and die. I mean what if someone from the McGill clan witnessed this crazy event and swears that this world is not suitable for children. So then Bruce is never born and someone else is put in charge of TEC. This new leader doesn't like JCVD... they are never friends... and JCVD is never hired to be the top timecop.

 

In the end we aren’t sure how this one event on October 30th could effect the future, but it does act like a stone being tossed into a lake. Ripples are created and thus, the future has been effected and not what it was like when we left it.

 

 

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Paul is 100% correct in that the house blowing up and Mia Sara’s death, happens before JCVD is even investigating actor/activist Ron Silver. JCVD should have a wife and child when we first meet him. Then after bringing in his ex-partner and having an awkward interaction with actor/activist Ron Silva, he wakes up the next day to an empty house. He then later finds out from Bruce McGill that he never had a kid and sadly, his wife was killed due to a unsolved gas explosion in 1994.

 

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The biggest issue I have with the logic of this glorious film, is that we are clearly told that we can’t travel into the future; only into the past. But if the past is effected… then technically the future has been adjusted. This would mean the future is unreachable by any timecop who effects the past.

Yes, someone who travels into the past is now in the past -- their "present" is the unlived future. Therefore they should not be able to return to their own time. It pretty much unravels the entire premise.

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When future JCVD decides to meddle with the past and save his wife, why does he not tell her this is the night she dies? Explain to her that there will be intruders. Maybe it'll be too tough for her to convince '94 JCVD, but at least give her a fighting chance. By lying to her before the invasion, Mia Sara could very well think she's invincible for she's been told she's alive in the future.

 

And most importantly, even if Mia Sara was not aware that she actually dies this night... she is still thrown off by meeting her future husband. And even with this knowledge, which surely messed with her head, she's still DTF with '94 JCVD. I guess there's really is no denying the power of those sweet, tight JCVD buns.

 

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As an government organization that is receiving billions of tax dollars to protect the present and future, why is there not a fail safe method in place to protect any timecops that come back from the past to a future that is quite different from how they left it?

 

Some kind of log that travels with the timecop, so that he or she can prove the present they've returned to has been altered.

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There is only one true victim in this movie. The consciousness of JCVD that raises that kid from 1994 to 2004 in the Happy Ending Timeline and then is shoved into the void when protagonist JCVD comes into the picture.

 

Regarding the plot point that the same matter can't occupy the same space at the same time. Isn't that true for any matter? I think you've got nuclear fusion in that case. But even going by the movie's definition that holding hands counts as occupying the same space but it has to be the "same matter" our bodies are constantly replacing our skin. So unless you went back in time just a few days and shook hands with your past self it isn't the same matter.

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YES! So happy to be able to listen to how this was recorded! This was by far one of the BEST shows I've ever gotten to see live and y'all made all us Texans (and those who traveled from out of state) the happiest people in the world! I'm also incredibly happy to have gotten to spend time with JammerLea, EternalSammich, and Fister! Internet friends made into real friends!!!

 

Enjoy this photo I took from the dirty balcony!

 

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(This Week in Feminism to come after I get to actually sit and listen to the episode!)

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32 minutes into the show, and no one has told Paul that it's not "Ron Silva".

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32 minutes into the show, and no one has told Paul that it's not "Ron Silva".

Wait for it

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I just sat down and started the episode... But I'm stuck at work and will post my full notes in like 10 hours or so when I get back home

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Regarding the plot point that the same matter can't occupy the same space at the same time. Isn't that true for any matter? I think you've got nuclear fusion in that case. But even going by the movie's definition that holding hands counts as occupying the same space but it has to be the "same matter" our bodies are constantly replacing our skin. So unless you went back in time just a few days and shook hands with your past self it isn't the same matter.

 

I had the same thought. Our bodies are constantly turning over cells. Skin cells (epidermis) have a lifespan of about 2-4 weeks. Then I got curious and looked up the lifespans of various cell types. Colon cells have a lifespan of only 4 days! So the lesson is, if you ever meet your future self, make sure to only touch colons.

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There is only one true victim in this movie. The consciousness of JCVD that raises that kid from 1994 to 2004 in the Happy Ending Timeline and then is shoved into the void when protagonist JCVD comes into the picture.

 

 

I had this exact thought. If anyone here has ever played "Life is Strange," the player-character can control time and her best friend knows this, so there are moments when you travel forward to the present after going to the past, and the friend say, "oh, you're really back now." And I always wondered what it must be like to be living your life and then have your consciousness replaced by an alternate self. And what about the friend who knows this can happen to you?

 

Come to think of it, shouldn't Mia Sara know that this would happen after '04 JCVD leaves '94 after saving every body? '94 Mia Sara knows about time travel, so when '04 JCVD goes back, she should know that should happen as she goes on living life with '94 JCVD. Do you think that's implied by the strange look she gives him when they kiss at the end of the movie -- "Oh, today was the day, wasn't it? You don't remember anything about your life since 1994. Well, this is your son, his name is Junior. Oh, and we rebuilt the house that blew up."

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I had the same thought. Our bodies are constantly turning over cells. Skin cells (epidermis) have a lifespan of about 2-4 weeks. Then I got curious and looked up the lifespans of various cell types. Colon cells have a lifespan of only 4 days! So the lesson is, if you ever meet your future self, make sure to only touch colons.

 

Not only that, but holding hands isn't the same as occupying the same space -- you're just really close together.

 

"It's almost as if the logic of Timecop is flawed."

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Both Nick Kroll eps I already owned the films and LEGIT LOVED Burlesque and TimeCop. I feel he's trolling me.

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I had the same thought. Our bodies are constantly turning over cells. Skin cells (epidermis) have a lifespan of about 2-4 weeks. Then I got curious and looked up the lifespans of various cell types. Colon cells have a lifespan of only 4 days! So the lesson is, if you ever meet your future self, make sure to only touch colons.

We do keep some cells more or less forever: stem cells, eggs (until ovulation), and terminally differentiated cells (some neurons, some muscle cells, the eye lens).

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Both Nick Kroll eps I already owned the films and LEGIT LOVED Burlesque and TimeCop. I feel he's trolling me.

 

Do you also own From Justin to Kelly? He did that one too.

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The JCVD episodes never disappoint. This has to be one one of the best episodes in the history of the show.

 

Maybe it's because JCVD's films are so batshit but yet so enjoyable that they are tailor made for this podcast.

 

Or maybe it's just because I was saw all of these in the theatre and I'm reliving my youth.

 

Would love for them to eventually do Sudden Death which Van Damme and Peter Hyams made immediately following this film. Another ridiculous but well crafted action film.

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We do keep some cells more or less forever: stem cells, eggs (until ovulation), and terminally differentiated cells (some neurons, some muscle cells, the eye lens).

 

I agree, but the Ron Silvas were literally not touching those things.

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Although the logic of Timecop is flawless, I had 2 questions. First, in the beginning of the movie, bobo Obama says that they recovered Confederate gold bullion dated 1863, and its age was "carbon tested" for authenticity. But as the name of the test implies, the test is done with carbon, not gold, which is a different element altogether. In addition, carbon dating is performed with radioactive carbon 14 (C-14), which is present in organic matter, like plants or animals that were once alive. The last time I checked, gold is not a living thing and therefore unable to consume C-14 from the environment. I'm sure there are tests that could determine the age of gold, but carbon dating is not it.

 

The second thing is related to the rules of time travel in this movie. Bobo Obama also told us that you can only travel BACK in time, because the future hasn't happened yet. So how do the time travel cars come back to their present time, if at the time of departure, the car's arrival back to present time hasn't happened yet? For example, if the time car leaves at 12 pm, presumably it can only come back to a time point before 12 pm, before departure, right? Well, that would create some problems, as both the past car and future car would be on the same track and you know what they say about the same matter existing in the same space...

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Ron Silver needs $50 million to buy ad time on television. When talking to his lackey in the limo, he says JCVD already cost him that much after JCVD stopped his stock scheme in 1929. He didn't. The stock was $1 per share in 1929 but was $264 1/2 in 2004. If he had 100,000 shares, he only made $26,450,000 minus the initial $100,000 investment for a total of $26,350,000. That's about half of his monetary goal.

 

I'm curious how the time cops even investigate the crimes of time travel. They mention, for example, buying Beverly Hills real estate in 1902. If Bruce McGill wasn't aware of things changing even when an actual time cop tells him he's changed things, how are they aware of someone buying real estate? Isn't that just their past at that point?

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Although the logic of Timecop is flawless, I had 2 questions. First, in the beginning of the movie, bobo Obama says that they recovered Confederate gold bullion dated 1863, and its age was "carbon tested" for authenticity. But as the name of the test implies, the test is done with carbon, not gold, which is a different element altogether. In addition, carbon dating is performed with radioactive carbon 14 (C-14), which is present in organic matter, like plants or animals that were once alive. The last time I checked, gold is not a living thing and therefore unable to consume C-14 from the environment. I'm sure there are tests that could determine the age of gold, but carbon dating is not it.

I had this exact same thought. But let’s assume that the Confederacy minted crappy gold bullion loaded with carbon impurities. To expand on what you mentioned, carbon dating operates on the principle of radioactive decay. You can therefore estimate the age of something based on the relative abundance of carbon isotopes. If that bullion was transported through a time machine, it will only appear as old as the time it took to travel through the time machine. So what are they verifying with the radiocarbon dating? That the gold is actually ~130 years old or that it appears suspiciously new? The former is basically impossible since the gold is not actually that old, while the latter would need further validation. Any idiot could mint his own fake Confederate bullion, right?

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In the end we aren’t sure how this one event on October 30th could effect the future, but it does act like a stone being tossed into a lake. Ripples are created and thus, the future has been effected and not what it was like when we left it.

 

 

This is always my problem with time travel movies -- there's no way they can truly appreciate the impact that tiny, seemingly inconsequential moments have on our lives. Forget that you just saw some people have a gun fight with future weapons and then vanish -- when '04 JCVD is walking around the '94 mall, he's bumping into and being seen by dozens of people, and each instance changes something tiny yet possibly significant in their lives. Maybe the guy that has to walk around JCVD because he is now obstructing the path by the clock store is delayed by a few seconds, which means he stops at a traffic light he didn't before, which means his whole day is thrown off by minutes, and who knows what kind of changes that would cause. Maybe JCVD touches a guy to move past him and gives him a '04 cold that knocks him out for a week, which could alter his future in myriad untold ways, which in turn would alter the lives of everyone he was supposed to interact with that week, and so on. Human interactions beget other interactions. Change one tiny thing and then people don't meet, others aren't born, decisions aren't made while others are, all of which effects the entirety of humanity. No 90-minute movie could ever capture that adequately.

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Speaking of money and the election - I have a question

 

Why is it that as soon as he ran out of money he would have to pull out of the race? I don't understand why having no money means he can't even run anymore. I understand his campaigning will probably have to halt because he can no longer travel to all the states and he would lose campaign ads and shit, but he could still actually be on the ticket right? I would even think being the "poor" candidate would make him more popular among the 99%. He could say he's now one of them and he's really trying to bring it up for the little guys. I mean not to tell Actor/Activist Ron Silva how to run for president but that seems like a much better plan than going back in time to put money into stocks.

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