Musical Mondays - Week 25 - Bride & Prejudice

[tomspanks 9039]

They never show him and Lalita kissing either.

There was that moment where it shows their silhouettes on the beach and it looks like they're going to kiss. But they continue hugging.

 

This for sure was a nod and a wink to Bollywood films. It wasn't illegal to show kissing in movies, but there were very few kissing scenes for a long time, IIRC. I watched a few classics with Indian and Pakistani friends and there were always scenes of the protagonists nearly kissing - they draw closer and then at the pivotal point they both turn away, LOL. Anyway, there was an interesting article about it.

 

There is no legal prohibition on kissing in Indian cinema but it largely vanished from the 1940s until it reappeared in several films in the 1990s, perhaps the most famous being Aamir Khan and Karisma's long smooch in Raja Hindustani (dir. Dharmesh Darshan 1996).

 

ETA: Forgot to mention that my friends taught me it was "screw in the lightbulb and bounce the ball." Thought that was funny compared with the film, where they say "screw in the lightbulb and pet the dog"

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I agree. I know I mentioned earlier that I also was digging the first half quite a bit (minus bland Darcy). And the beginning was when it was more "Bollywood". The song/dance numbers in the beginning I liked a lot (especially the ones with Naveen dancing, lol). It wasn't even that the dancing was that great or complicated. But what I liked about the more "Bollywood" song/dance numbers was that they all looked like they were having fun, which made it fun to watch.

 

When they moved away from those it became less fun to watch because it caused me to pay more attention to how lame this Darcy is.

This Darcy was so fucking boring and like wore his "love" for her all over his face. Like you're supposed to think that he fucking hates her until she stays with them and the little cracks shine through and he's like "oh shit" but this dude was like from moment ONE in love with her and it was so obvious.

 

I'm sorry I'm such a story purist when it comes to this lol.

 

Also can someone more knowledgeable about Bollywood musicals tell me are their dance moves supposed to be super literal? It was kinda driving me crazy watching their hands act out every word they sang lol.

[tomspanks 9039]

According to IMDB that might have been Aishwarya's choice.

 

Oh, and then a year after B&P, she starred in Dhoom 2 where she had to do a kissing scene!

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Oh, and then a year after B&P, she starred in Dhoom 2 where she had to do a kissing scene!

I really hope she wasn't forced to do it against her will...

[tomspanks 9039]

I really hope she wasn't forced to do it against her will...

 

She said she agreed to it in the few articles I saw, but even in print she sounds she was reluctant.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

She said she agreed to it in the few articles I saw, but even in print she sounds she was reluctant.

Ugh Hollywood is such a fucking bummer

[kateacola 2440]

 

This for sure was a nod and a wink to Bollywood films. It wasn't illegal to show kissing in movies, but there were very few kissing scenes for a long time, IIRC. I watched a few classics with Indian and Pakistani friends and there were always scenes of the protagonists nearly kissing - they draw closer and then at the pivotal point they both turn away, LOL. Anyway, there was an interesting article about it.

 

 

 

ETA: Forgot to mention that my friends taught me it was "screw in the lightbulb and bounce the ball." Thought that was funny compared with the film, where they say "screw in the lightbulb and pet the dog"

Interesting! I was wondering if it was a Bollywood thing or actors choice. Maybe both in this case.

 

This Darcy was so fucking boring and like wore his "love" for her all over his face. Like you're supposed to think that he fucking hates her until she stays with them and the little cracks shine through and he's like "oh shit" but this dude was like from moment ONE in love with her and it was so obvious.

 

I'm sorry I'm such a story purist when it comes to this lol.

Same though.

Darcy is soooo important and it has to be done right, so I really don't understand how he got cast in the first place.

Feel like maybe they should've switched the actor playing Wickham with the dude playing Darcy. Not that I think the actor playing Wickham could totally pull it off, but think he could've been less bland.

 

But on IMDB's B&P page it says:

 

Johnny Depp and Joaquin Phoenix were considered for the role of Darcy.

I am not sure if I would've liked that either. I don't think Depp could do Darcy justice, Joaquin maybe I guess could've pulled off some Darcy brooding. But still don't know if I'd be fully on board.

I'm too picky though when it comes to Darcy, lol.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I am not sure if I would've liked that either. I don't think Depp could do Darcy justice, Joaquin maybe I guess could've pulled off some Darcy brooding. But still don't know if I'd be fully on board.

I'm too picky though when it comes to Darcy, lol.

I don't want Depp near anything I love. I'm already having a hard time with him in Fantastic Beasts.

 

ETA: Forgot to mention that my friends taught me it was "screw in the lightbulb and bounce the ball." Thought that was funny compared with the film, where they say "screw in the lightbulb and pet the dog"

Omg when he said it the way he did he made it sound sooooo racist I was cringing lmao

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Also can someone more knowledgeable about Bollywood musicals tell me are their dance moves supposed to be super literal? It was kinda driving me crazy watching their hands act out every word they sang lol.

I'm not sure about acting out every word but they do seem to emphasize every beat. Here's the title song from the one movie I've seen. (It's the Bollywood adaptation of While You Were Sleeping.) They definitely choreograph to the beat.

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[taylor anne photo 11311]

I'm not sure about acting out every word but they do seem to emphasize every beat. Here's the title song from the one movie I've seen. (It's the Bollywood adaptation of While You Were Sleeping.) They definitely choreograph to the beat.

Yeah I don't mean choreograph to the beat but specifically when they are in the market singing about their friend getting married and they act like they are putting rings on their finger when they actually sing about putting a ring on that finger.

[tomspanks 9039]

At the wedding, Darcy tells his sister:

 

 

Is it an insult to call someone a coconut? Or is this another nod/wink to Bollywood? What does it mean?

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

Yeah I don't mean choreograph to the beat but specifically when they are in the market singing about their friend getting married and they act like they are putting rings on their finger when they actually sing about putting a ring on that finger.

That I don't think they do. Most numbers I've seen are way too wordy to mime every described action.

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[/media]

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

At the wedding, Darcy tells his sister:

 

 

Is it an insult to call someone a coconut? Or is this another nod/wink to Bollywood? What does it mean?

He's telling her to be who she is and stop trying to "fit in".

 

From Wikipedia:

Coconut Named after the coconut, the nut from the coconut palm; in the American sense, it derives from the fact that a coconut is brown on the outside and white on the inside (see also "Oreo" below). (US) a person of Hispanic descent who is accused of acting "white".^[80] (US/SA) a black person who is accused of "trying to be white".^[81] (UK) a brown person of South Asian descent who has assimilated into Western culture.^[82][83][84] (New Zealand/Australia) a Pacific Islander.^[85]

 

Also, this movie was SUCH a waste of Indira Varma! What was the point of her character?

[tomspanks 9039]

^ That's Aishwarya Rai's first husband, FYI.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

^ That's Aishwarya Rai's first husband, FYI.

Oooooh IMDB only has her current husband listed is there a scandal?!

 

Also, this movie was SUCH a waste of Indira Varma! What was the point of her character?

This is another thing that disappoints me because Indira is our "Caroline Bingley" who was a mega bitch in the story. In my opinion she's the main source of all Lizzie's hesitations about the Bingley family because she's so gd snotty to them for being so low class. In fact, it's Caroline more so than Darcy that convinces Bingley to leave Jane. In this movie she's just a vain high society girl that wants to just sit by the pool?

 

Another opportunity missed - In the book while Elizabeth and Jane are staying at the home of the Bingleys, Caroline asks Lizzie to walk about the room with her for a bit of exercise (??? sure why not regency era). I can't quite remember the quotes exactly so just bare with me from this point on lol. So Caroline makes a comment about how Darcy should join them and Darcy says "but why would you want that when my view of you is much better from my current position? isn't that the point of walking about the room?" Caroline of course jokes that Darcy is being cheeky and asks Elizabeth what they should do and she just responds, "Laugh at him."

 

I think that moment by the pool would have been much more effective if Indira's character had made Lalita walk around the pool with her trying to "show off their bodies" and then they could have had that exact talk about colonialism (because that's actually the best dialogue in the movie).

[tomspanks 9039]

Oooooh IMDB only has her current husband listed is there a scandal?!

 

Oops, my bad! I thought they were a married couple, but Wikipedia says they only dated.

[kateacola 2440]

Oooooh IMDB only has her current husband listed is there a scandal?!

 

 

This is another thing that disappoints me because Indira is our "Caroline Bingley" who was a mega bitch in the story. In my opinion she's the main source of all Lizzie's hesitations about the Bingley family because she's so gd snotty to them for being so low class. In fact, it's Caroline more so than Darcy that convinces Bingley to leave Jane. In this movie she's just a vain high society girl that wants to just sit by the pool?

 

Another opportunity missed - In the book while Elizabeth and Jane are staying at the home of the Bingleys, Caroline asks Lizzie to walk about the room with her for a bit of exercise (??? sure why not regency era). I can't quite remember the quotes exactly so just bare with me from this point on lol. So Caroline makes a comment about how Darcy should join them and Darcy says "but why would you want that when my view of you is much better from my current position? isn't that the point of walking about the room?" Caroline of course jokes that Darcy is being cheeky and asks Elizabeth what they should do and she just responds, "Laugh at him."

 

I think that moment by the pool would have been much more effective if Indira's character had made Lalita walk around the pool with her trying to "show off their bodies" and then they could have had that exact talk about colonialism (because that's actually the best dialogue in the movie).

I always thought there was a hint of jealousy with Caroline being so nasty towards Elizabeth and her sister/family.

Did she kind of want to get with Darcy herself? I always got that vibe but wasn't sure and can't remember if it was more explicit in the book. But the P&P miniseries I felt like Caroline was kind of into Darcy herself.

 

(In the miniseries at least) it felt like she probably knew Darcy did not want to marry Lady Catherine's daughter, so she assumed she had a chance since she was his "equal". But then Elizabeth steps in the picture and she sees her chance slipping away.

So she talks as much shit as she can about Elizabeth and her family to Darcy / Bingley to remind them that Jane and Elizabeth (& rest of Bennets) are not their equals (in society, wealth, etc) and it would be somewhat scandalous if Bingley or Darcy married one of them.

 

EDIT: I also agree that Indira's Caroline character was not utilized properly

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I always thought there was a hint of jealousy with Caroline being so nasty towards Elizabeth and her sister/family.

Did she kind of want to get with Darcy herself? I always got that vibe but wasn't sure and can't remember if it was more explicit in the book. But the P&P miniseries I felt like Caroline was kind of into Darcy herself.

That's exactly it. She takes every opportunity to agree with and fawn over Darcy, especially early in the book when he is looking down his nose at the Bennet family, which only spurns Caroline to look down her nose even more, especially at Elizabeth. Of course, we find out later that Darcy's icy exterior and stiff demeanor is a defense mechanism, for himself and against potential predators like Wickham, but Caroline is 100% smug narcissist.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

but Caroline is 100% smug narcissist.

Crap, I gotta "um, actually" my own post...

Um, actually Caroline is, by definition, not a narcissist because she is so preoccupied with what other people, especially Dacry, think of her. The result is this very poisonous combination of insecurity and vanity that is endemic to societies with a rigid, tiered class structure, leading to things like social ostracization over trivial breaches in etiquette and a lack of class mobility.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I think my biggest issue with this movie - aside from Darcy - is that I think I’m P&P’d out. Like a lot of the responses here, I felt like I was comparing it to other versions rather than judging it on its own merits. The Bollywood style was wonderful, but rather than be engrossed in the narrative, I was in my own head thinking “How are they going to portray Wickham?” or “This is when [such and such] happens...”

 

So while I think it definitely tried to bring something fresh to the table, it never transcended above just rehashing the same story I’ve seen (done better) before.

 

While I know I’m in the minority in liking it, even “& Zombies” managed to squeeze in a “some zombies are sentient and can pass for human” subplot that allowed for a modicum of suspense as to how it might end.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

Crap, I gotta "um, actually" my own post...

Um, actually Caroline is, by definition, not a narcissist because she is so preoccupied with what other people, especially Dacry, think of her. The result is this very poisonous combination of insecurity and vanity that is endemic to societies with a rigid, tiered class structure, leading to things like social ostracization over trivial breaches in etiquette and a lack of class mobility.

 

Um, actually I think you’re 100% right

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I think my biggest issue with this movie - aside from Darcy - is that I think I’m P&P’d out. Like a lot of the responses here, I felt like I was comparing it to other versions rather than judging it on its own merits. The Bollywood style was wonderful, but rather than be engrossed in the narrative, I was in my own head thinking “How are they going to portray Wickham?” or “This is when [such and such] happens...”

 

So while I think it definitely tried to bring something fresh to the table, it never transcended above just rehashing the same story I’ve seen (done better) before.

 

While I know I’m in the minority in liking it, even “& Zombies” managed to squeeze in a “some zombies are sentient and can pass for human” subplot that allowed for a modicum of suspense as to how it might end.

I completely agree with you, and I think starting off immediately going along with the book and saying, "Mother thinks that any single man with big bucks is shopping for a wife," really forces you into that mindset.

 

Like if they were going to do a modern Bollywood version of this story here's a few things I wish they had done -

1. Make it as damn modern as you possibly can. There are a lot of times where this is done beautifully but I still think some things like proposing after knowing each other for 2 months is severely outdated. Movies like Clueless and 10 Things are adaptations from this era (don't um actually me I know Taming of the Shrew is Elizabethan and not Regency I'm trying to make a point here) and are expertly crafted to the point where they can even directly quote the source material and it fucking FITS.

2. Don't cast a white dude as Darcy in a fucking Bollywood film. None of us needed that and I HONESTLY think I wouldn't be so focused on the story if Darcy had been well casted. There's a ton of fuckin classism in India between actual Indians so there's literally 0.00 reason for them to bring in an American.

3. Go full Bollywood. Like I said in a different post I just don't think this was really Bollywood, especially based on a lot of the videos posted today. It felt subdued and Americanized so that us dumbos here would be into it, but it actually made me like it less. Tons of times it felt like it wanted to go back and forth between Bollywood musical and Rom Com and I was definitely not impressed by the Rom Com side.

4. Don't introduce important characters that get disposed 2 scenes later. No explanation needed.

 

EDIT: Oh and to add to the Bollywood bullet point - If you are trying to make a Bollywood film, having characters IN THE MOVIE not like what's happening is going to make your audience not like what's happening. I understand that Darcy and Kiran are supposed to be looking down on things but you don't need to go in that direction where it just comes off racist, rude, and really fucking awkward.

[kateacola 2440]

I think I’m P&P’d out.

 

 

 

Lol. I don't know that I'm P&P'd out, but I firmly know what my favorite adaptation is. So I'm mostly in the same boat where I also can't help but compare or anticipate how they will handle certain characters, plot points, etc.

 

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

EDIT: Oh and to add to the Bollywood bullet point - If you are trying to make a Bollywood film, having characters IN THE MOVIE not like what's happening is going to make your audience not like what's happening. I understand that Darcy and Kiran are supposed to be looking down on things but you don't need to go in that direction where it just comes off racist, rude, and really fucking awkward.

I think this is one of the first big missteps in the movie. It IS important that the Pride and Prejudice Darcy be having zero fun at the ball where he first meets Elizabeth. He is a Zero Fun Fellow at that point in the story and he only interacts with the Bingelys. The whole ball recognizes him as the "proudest" most standoffish person they've ever seen, which is kind of why Elizabeth is willing to approach him in the first place. When the world swings one way, she swings the other. But this Bride's Darcy just comes off as a turd and the jokes the movie makes are at the expense of the dancing, not Darcy, who should be the absurd one in this very pivotal scene. The result is uncomfortable colonialist attitudes bordering on racism.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I also think a lot of these flaws I am focused on (and others have pointed out before me) is precisely the miscasting of Darcy. Sorry for beating this dead horse of Caucasian Blandness, but the Darcy characters work in the BBC and Joe Wright versions because Colin Firth and Matthew Macfayden are able to imbue the character with something unseen and enthralling, that Smouldering Under the Surface quality that makes us, as viewers, want to see them again, even if they do infuriate our beloved Elizabeth Bennet. They are able to infuriate us, and by extension, Elizabeth, in a very specific way; we are angered and frustrated by them, but in a way that sticks in our minds. We obsess over every look and gesture because they are so fascinating in their impenetrable pride. What is under that stiff collar? Turns out, it's an adorable sexy puppy dog that wants to kiss us in the rain.

 

But Bride's Darcy? We don't give him a second thought the moment he is off screen. We even dread his re-appearance, which is NOT what you want from a love interest.