Episode 176 - The Jazz Singer: LIVE!

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

To Triple: I totally get where you're coming from now (I hope...). I don't think the problem is that he doesn't experience hardships, but the movie does bend over backwards to never let him be the bad guy. Every time he does something that might be construed as unsavory, there's always seems to be a line or an event that immediately precedes that's meant to absolve him.

 

Pretty much.

 

Also, you're not wrong that Jess is supposed to be an early-20-something. Everything about the character points to him being a younger man. After listening to the episode again today, it's pretty clear that I locked into their running joke that he's 40 and couldn't distance myself from that. But even when I watched the movie prior to the episode, I proved incapable of suspending my disbelief that far.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

Pretty much.

 

Also, you're not wrong that Jess is supposed to be an early-20-something. Everything about the character points to him being a younger man. After listening to the episode again today, it's pretty clear that I locked into their running joke that he's 40 and couldn't distance myself from that. But even when I watched the movie prior to the episode, I proved incapable of suspending my disbelief that far.

 

I literally just edited a previous post to include this

 

ETA: I have know idea where the audience member got his information, but if the terrorist attack Jess’ father is talking about is indeed the attack in Israel in 1967, and at the time of the attack Jess was - as his father puts it - “playing in the street,” then it does provide some evidence that Jess is probably in his Twenties. However, it also implies that - unless Jess was playing in the street at 17 or 18-years old, he’s supposed to be even younger than I previously thought.)

 

I’m mean, yeah, it’s insane, but I do think that was the intention and that theory kind of bears it out.

[PollyDarton 1807]

Every time he does something that might be construed as unsavory, there's always seems to be a line or an event that immediately precedes that's meant to absolve him.

 

Minstrel show? - "This is literally our last chance! We know this is fucked up, but we need a guy and you're our only hope."

You got us all fired? - "That's okay, Jess, because the music is what's important and Billy Idol was completely fucking the song up."

You're falling in love with another woman? - "That's okay, because you never consummated it."

Leaving your wife might be the only way for you to achieve your dreams? - "That's cool, because she wants to leave you."

You're being an asshole in the studio? - "Well, your father just disowned you. We understand."

You're leaving your pregnant wife? - "Had you known, you never would have left."

 

I was thinking this exact thing when I was writing last night... I guess Neil Diamond is such a nice guy that he couldn't stand to have his character ever do anything unsavory. That is, if he had that much to do with the writing of the movie (which I suspect he had plenty of input.)

 

A few people have asked questions like: Why didn't they just hire a younger actor to be this role? but I'm willing to bet that Diamond was the one chasing this movie instead of the other way around. It is, in some ways, a perfect role for him.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

I was thinking this exact thing when I was writing last night... I guess Neil Diamond is such a nice guy that he couldn't stand to have his character ever do anything unsavory. That is, if he had that much to do with the writing of the movie (which I suspect he had plenty of input.)

 

A few people have asked questions like: Why didn't they just hire a younger actor to be this role? but I'm willing to bet that Diamond was the one chasing this movie instead of the other way around. It is, in some ways, a perfect role for him.

 

Yeah, it's really weird. It's like they want him to hurt people and do douchey things, but keep him completely blameless at the same time. I also think, as Jason and June said, it would have been better if he had been more of a dick. It would have been far more interesting and would have made his "atonement" much more impactful.

 

And while I didn't get the same "all these women are throwing themselves at him" vibe the gang picked up on, I do feel like Neil Diamond, not "Jess," definitely felt like - even at forty - he was at, like, Leif Garrett levels of heartthrobdom. Kind of like how the Fast and Furious actors have it written into their contracts that their characters can never lose a fight, if you were to tell me that he had it written into his contract that there always had to be some kind of reasonable-ish excuse anytime his character did something shitty (to "protect his brand"), I would not be the least bit surprised.

[tomspanks 9039]

OT question. Does Neil Diamond wear sparkly shirts on stage because he has to shine bright like a...diamond?

[NaughtyByNurture 15]

An audience member asked about the song "On the Robert E. Lee" in this version of the movie. It's a reference to the song "Waiting for Robert E. Lee" from the original film.

 

This is representative of the insane choices this remake made when it comes to what to include from the original. The most obvious of these choices is the inclusion of black face. In this movie Neil Diamond is forced to don black face in order to perform in a black-owned club. One reason black face originally became a practice was because segregated theaters would not allow African Americans to perform. So, this movie's weird choice to make black face a necessity because of some deluded concept of reverse racism is a whole extra level of offensive.

 

Today, "The Jazz Singer" is discussed along with "The Birth of a Nation" and "Gone with the Wind" as an example of early cinema whose racist portrayals had lasting and negative effects on attitudes about race. But even without the benefit of hindsight, when "The Jazz Singer" came out in 1927 it was protested by the NAACP for its racist use of black face. If something is seen as racist in 1927, it's probably not a good idea to include it in 1980. Even the remake "White Christmas" had enough sense to remove the black face scene from the original "Holiday Inn" - and that movie came out in 1954.

 

This definitely falls into the "what were they thinking?" category.

[Cam Bert 8145]

I just want to add my favourite bit of Neil Diamond trivia. Neil Diamon, Burt Bacharach and his wife Carole Bayer Sager went and saw the movie E.T. Diamond so moved by the film that the three of them collaborated and came up with a song about E.T. They were not contracted or asked to do this, and in fact despite the song not mentioning and characters by name still had to pay $25,000 to MCA. They release the song "Heartlight" a reference to E.T's glowing chest at the end of the film in 1982 and it would be his last song to hit #1 on the charts and top 30 on the hot 100.

 

[tomspanks 9039]

I just want to add my favourite bit of Neil Diamond trivia. Neil Diamon, Burt Bacharach and his wife Carole Bayer Sager went and saw the movie E.T. Diamond so moved by the film that the three of them collaborated and came up with a song about E.T. They were not contracted or asked to do this, and in fact despite the song not mentioning and characters by name still had to pay $25,000 to MCA. They release the song "Heartlight" a reference to E.T's glowing chest at the end of the film in 1982 and it would be his last song to hit #1 on the charts and top 30 on the hot 100.

 

Well, that makes sense. Some consider ET the best Jewish movie ever made.

[Cameron H. 23786]

As you all probably know by now, I loved this movie and defending it is apparently the hill upon which I die. I’m okay with that. I really don’t have much to say about the movie itself. However, I would like to comment on the lyrics of one of the songs.

 

At his first performance opening for Zany, Jess sings the raucous song “Hey Louise (Guzman)” with the following lyrics:

 

Oh ma cherie, do you know my name?

I remember yours

And I know what you need

What you need my Louise

 

So, according to this song, Neil/Jess has just bumped into a woman he’s met previously, but apparently their previous encounter left so little of an impression on her that she can't even recall his name. Even his fancy French-talking isn't enough to jog her memoty. Undeterred, he assures her that he “remembers [hers]” And even though all he knows about her is the absolute bare minimum any person can know about another human being, he still feels confident enough to tell her that he “knows what she needs.” Damn, bro, that’s fucking bold and brassy.

 

[tomspanks 9039]

As you all probably know by now, I loved this movie and defending it is apparently the hill upon which I die. I’m okay with that. I really don’t have much to say about the movie itself. That being said, I would like to comment on the lyrics of one of the songs.

 

At his first performance opening for Zany, Jess sings the raucous song “Hey Louise (Guzman)” with the following lyrics:

 

The part I liked was:

 

Hey, my Louise,

If I take you home,

Will you make me plead?

 

Louise's game is on fleek.

[Geans 193]

Re: age and timelines, I don't think the terrorist attack referenced could have been the one in 1967 because they celebrate the dad being the cantor at that particular synagogue for 25 years, right (where he has the "ya ya ya ya ya ya" moment)? If, say, the movie was set in current day 1980, they'd been in NYC since at least 1955.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

The "terrorists" comment has to be a reference to the SA. They were paramilitary so terrorist would be an apt description. Lawrence Olivier was born in 1907 so a similarly aged character would have been around to witness Hitler and the rise of the Nazis.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

An audience member asked about the song "On the Robert E. Lee" in this version of the movie. It's a reference to the song "Waiting for Robert E. Lee" from the original film.

 

This is representative of the insane choices this remake made when it comes to what to include from the original. The most obvious of these choices is the inclusion of black face. In this movie Neil Diamond is forced to don black face in order to perform in a black-owned club. One reason black face originally became a practice was because segregated theaters would not allow African Americans to perform. So, this movie's weird choice to make black face a necessity because of some deluded concept of reverse racism is a whole extra level of offensive.

 

Today, "The Jazz Singer" is discussed along with "The Birth of a Nation" and "Gone with the Wind" as an example of early cinema whose racist portrayals had lasting and negative effects on attitudes about race. But even without the benefit of hindsight, when "The Jazz Singer" came out in 1927 it was protested by the NAACP for its racist use of black face. If something is seen as racist in 1927, it's probably not a good idea to include it in 1980. Even the remake "White Christmas" had enough sense to remove the black face scene from the original "Holiday Inn" - and that movie came out in 1954.

 

This definitely falls into the "what were they thinking?" category.

I didn't even know that was an existing song. I thought it was something they made up on the spot. It seems like all the "homages" are racist.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

The part I liked was:

 

Hey, my Louise,

If I take you home,

Will you make me plead?

 

EXT. - KROGER’S PARKING LOT - MID AFTERNOON

 

LOUISE, 22, walks to her white, 2006 Toyota Camry. It’s the one with the dent on the hood she keeps telling herself she’s going to get fixed when she has the time. She’s carrying her two heavy grocery bags because she didn’t want to bother returning a cart to the corral. She’s struggling. Her purse keeps slipping from her shoulder as she tries to find her keys.

 

Neil:(O.S.)Hey! Hey!

 

Louise looks up to see a MYSTERIOUS STRANGER, 39-52, waving his arms at her like a fucking maniac. Louise looks baffled by the man in the bedazzling, sequined shirt and oddly flowing helmet hair. He’s the kind of man who somehow looks hairier than he actually is.

 

Louise:(confused) Uh, hi...?

 

Neil:(bounding over) Louise, right?

 

Louise: Um...uh, yeah.

 

Neil: I knew it! Hello again, hello.

 

He steps uncomfortably close, and she is immediately assaulted by wave after wave of Faberge Brut, stale Pall Malls, and patchouli. He goes in to kiss her cheek. She pulls away.

 

Louise:(defensive) Whoa, buddy! Do I know you?

 

Neil: (encouragingly) Oh, c’mon! It’s me! Neil! Neil Diamond.

 

He wags his hips with a strange syncopation that not only looks obscene, but painful for a man his age.

 

Neil(cont): "Ma cherie?” Remember?

 

Louise: Sorry, not ringing any bells...

 

Neil:(waving it off) Never mind, never mind. How the Hell have you been?

 

Louise: Fine, I guess.

 

Neil continues to smile and nod his head like a buoy during a changing tide. Louise is trying to look away. Anywhere else. Partly from discomfort and partly from the blinding corona of light that seems to emit from his sparkling shirt.

 

Louise(cont): So...did you, like, need something?

 

Neil laughs. It’s an abrasive gutterel sound like a sea lion choking on a cheese grater.

 

Neil: Ha! “Need something?” No, no, no. It’s not what I need, it’s what you need.

 

Louise vomits in her throat - and not a little. He waggles his eyebrows. Somehow, her face remains implacable; her hand, however, is now searching furiously for her keys. A loaf of French Bread falls on the ground. They both ignore it. He leans in...

 

Suddenly...

 

Louise: (triumphantly) My keys! Ha, ha! Thank God! My keys!

 

She waves them in his stupid, bewildered face and gets in the car - slamming the door.

 

Neil: C’mon, Louise, it’s cold out here. I remembered your name! That used to mean something! Baby, don’t close the door....

 

Louise puts the car in reverse and slams on the accelerator. The car clips Neil and sends him spiraling to the ground - his shirt glittering like a disco ball in the afternoon sun.

 

He’s lying in the middle of the road in front of her car. He groans. His hips move weakly.

 

Neil: (groaning) Ooh! Baby, baby. C’mon baby,now...

 

Her heart racing, Louise grips the wheel. His groaning continues. She smiles and shifts the Camry into drive. After all, what’s one more dent, really?

 

End.

[tomspanks 9039]

^ I LOL'ed so hard

[Cameron H. 23786]

^ I LOL'ed so hard

 

[Cam Bert 8145]

As I pictured your story in my I couldn't help but see it as Will Ferrell's Neil Diamond.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

I am sorry I am late to getting to the boards. I dunno, work and other bullshit. I just want to say that I really appreciate all the lively discussion about the motivations and actions of the characters in this film (despite it being of dubious merit), and how they are represented in the film. Further, thank you, Mr. Cameron H. for taking the more sympathetic viewpoint of Jess/Yussel as your erudite posts spurned on much of this discussion. I found myself sympathizing with his character as well, seeing him as someone perpetually unhappy in New York, desperate to escape to achieve his dream. Granted, I don't know why he couldn't be a musician in New York. That in itself is bonkers. Further, I saw Rivka as being complicit in the emotional manipulation and self-delusion that was basically the foundation of their marriage and life in New York. Now, does ANY of this excuse Jess treating his band like garbage? Of leaving his pregnant girlfriend for a year? Fuuuuuuuck no. Anyway, you are all my favorite film critics.

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

^ I LOL'ed so hard

I lost it at "He waggles his eyebrows."

[tomspanks 9039]

I lost it at "He waggles his eyebrows."

 

Mine was "39-52." I was like 'oh I see where this is going.'

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

 

EXT. - KROGER’S PARKING LOT - MID AFTERNOON

 

[...]

 

... a MYSTERIOUS STRANGER, 39-52, waving his arms at her like a fucking maniac. Louise looks baffled by the man in the bedazzling, sequined shirt and oddly flowing helmet hair. He’s the kind of man who somehow looks hairier than he actually is.

 

[...]

 

Neil: I knew it! Hello again, hello.

 

He steps uncomfortably close, and she is immediately assaulted by wave after wave of Faberge Brut, stale Pall Malls, and patchouli. ...

 

[...]

 

He wags his hips with a strange syncopation that looks not only obscene, but painful for a man his age.

 

[...]

 

Neil laughs. It’s an abrasive gutterel sound like a sea lion choking on a cheese grater.

 

Neil: Ha! “Need something?” No, no, no. It’s not what I need, it’s what you need.

 

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

He steps uncomfortably close, and she is immediately assaulted by wave after wave of Faberge Brut, stale Pall Malls, and patchouli.

Oh god, you're right ... I can smell it from here.

[Cameron H. 23786]

You are all far too kind!

[Cam Bert 8145]

 

Mine was "39-52." I was like 'oh I see where this is going.'

That's the one that got me too

[PollyDarton 1807]

He steps uncomfortably close, and she is immediately assaulted by wave after wave of Faberge Brut, stale Pall Malls, and patchouli. He goes in to kiss her cheek. She pulls away.

 

Bwahahaha... I was totally thinking when re-watching that he looks like he smells terrible.