Episode 187 - Beautiful Creatures

[Cameron H. 23786]

I’m not sure how much “magic” Amma was. She could speak with the dead, but is that magic or a natural gift she was born with? She was a keeper as well, but it seemed like that position came with only the key to the library?

 

I would be fine with Futurama references in all your posts for no raisin.

 

I agree, I don’t think she was really magic. She was just kind of paranormal adjacent.

 

(I quote that “no raisin” line far too often”)

[tomspanks 9039]

Some other differences:

 

• Macon was an Incubus - a creature that feeds off the dreams of Mortals. His alignment is only vaguely Dark, but it’s enough that if Lena chooses the light, he will die.

 

So, I read too many caster wiki articles today and Link and Ridley get their own spinoff books. Spoiler tags just in case LOL.

 

 

Link gets BITTEN by an incubus and becomes part incubus; he calls himself Linkubus. His body gets more swole and Ridley becomes more smitten with him? Ridley is in NYC hanging out with the caster scene there and then Link follows her and tries to make it as a musician.

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

 

So, I read too many caster wiki articles today and Link and Ridley get their own spinoff books. Spoiler tags just in case LOL.

 

 

Link gets BITTEN by an incubus and becomes part incubus; he calls himself Linkubus. His body gets more swole and Ridley becomes more smitten with him? Ridley is in NYC hanging out with the caster scene there and then Link follows her and tries to make it as a musician.

 

 

I’m starting to think I shouldn’t have given up reading these so quickly...

[tomspanks 9039]

This is all true. I just wanted to clarify, (I think you meant to, Tom) this only applies to *Duchannes* women. All other female Casters are allowed to choose Light or Dark at will.

 

Oh, I totally missed that part. I thought it was all female casters who couldn’t choose/flip flop like the male casters. I thought the Duchannes curse was that all the females in that line will go dark no matter what. Never mind!

[Cameron H. 23786]

Oh, I totally missed that part. I thought it was all female casters who couldn’t choose/flip flop like the male casters. I thought the Duchannes curse was that all the females in that line will go dark no matter what. Never mind!

 

Honestly, it’s a bit confusing. In the movie, Lena says: “When a female Caster turns 16, we face what they call the Claiming. My powers will be claimed for either the Light or the Dark....depending on my true nature. Whatever I'm destined to be....They say that a female Caster's true nature chooses for her. I don't know why.”

 

Which definitely sounds like *all* female Casters.

 

However, later, Macon consoles her when she asks him if she will definitely go Dark, “No, not necessarily. I know your true nature, it's strong.”

 

In order to resolve this seeming contradiction, I went to the Genevieve Duchannes Wiki Page. It says:

 

Genevieve cast a forbidden spell from The Book of Moons. Not only did she fail, she cursed herself and her descendants, meaning that they would not be able to choose whether they turn Dark or Light on their Sixteenth Moon.

 

So I guess that answers that.

 

Point of interest - the Wikipedia also says:

 

[Lena] also tries to find ways to be with Ethan, her true love, since it is discovered that Casters and Mortals cannot be together sexually or physically without the mortal getting killed.

 

So I guess that also answers the question as to whether they had sex or not...yikes.

[tomspanks 9039]

No, Macon tells her - in effort to console her - that she's inherently good and she shouldn't worry (I'll find the quote tomorrow. Something about true nature and how the Light will win out) Her fear is that, in her mind, she thought Ridley (her best friend) was inherently good. She's afraid that maybe she's not as good as she thinks she is or needs to be.

 

I remember that too, but I assumed he was just trying to comfort her.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

What was everyone's favorite needless literary reference in the movie? Mine was William Carlos Williams

 

This Is Just To Say

 

I have eaten

the plums

that were in

the icebox

 

and which

you were probably

saving

for breakfast

 

Forgive me

they were delicious

so sweet

and so cold

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

 

I remember that too, but I assumed he was just trying to comfort her.

 

Ha! I edited that entire post!

[taylor anne photo 11311]

 

I’m just saying, traditionally, that’s not the case. I’m sure there is one, but I can’t think of a single instance of a paranormal romance that is told from the perspective of the paranormal creature trying to be with a normal person. And if there is one, I’m not surprised I’ve never heard of it. We relate to the “Muggle” while we long for the extraordinary. If we see the movie from her POV, and still include the romance aspect, then it’s her learning about a boring human and her describing his reactions of her powers - which would dilute their impact.

 

For example:

 

Ethan’s POV: All at once, the sun went dark. I could taste lightning in the air. The hairs on the back of my arm stood on end. My tongue felt dry and heavy. Her eyes flashed. There was a crackle of thunder. Then the sky opened up and I was drenched.

 

Lena’s POV: Ethan kept telling me I could break the curse, but what did he know? He didn’t know what it’s like to be a Caster: to be a Duchannes. How could he? To shut him up, I cast a spell to make it rain on him. He looked annoyed.

I understand what you are saying, and as I said I agree with you on how that is an interesting point of view, but what I am saying is that female YA readers want the world of what it's like to be a witch finding out what her own powers are just as much as they want to read about finding out about magic as a human.

 

My example is a series I'm currently reading: The Raven Boys. This book not only gives you the perspective of the boy longing to find magic but doesn't have any himself, but also gives you the perspective of a psychic girl and a boy that can walk through dreams and bring things into reality. The multiple points of views not only give you the excitement of finding out about this world, but also the excitement of already living with these powers.

 

You know how the book was written, whether broken up between Lena and Ethan's POV or just solely Ethan, but the movie definitely breaks them up. And in my honest opinion, I was way more interested in Lena's internal struggle between light and dark than I was about Ethan's bewilderment to being introduced to Lena's magical world. I believe that I mentioned in the recommendations thread that I honestly can't figure out why he was really there for 90% of the movie. It seemed like in one moment Lena is trying to hide everything from him and in the next she's telling him about her entire family history and he just is like oh cool let's go meet them and I'll spill my guts under a spell.

[Cam Bert 8145]

Let's talk alligators y'all.

 

When Ridley and Link are making out on the Tom Sawyer raft in the swamp lands of South Carolina we see they are surrounded by alligators. Whoa, bad ass right? Wrong! See this scene is in late December, and even though alligators are cold blooded they still do not like winter time. In fact in the winter time they enter a state of brumation. What's brumation? It's basically hibernation but for reptiles. When does this occur? When the temperature starts to dip below 70 degrees (21 Celsius). While Gatlin is made up know it is the low country or the coastal area because of the alligators and in these areas of South Caroline the mean December temperature is around the 48 to 50 degree mark (9 to 10 Celsius)! So those alligators in Beautiful Creatures would be sleeping and not swimming around. Unless of course Ridley's powers extend to alligators in which case she probably killed them.

[achoohorsey16 34]

This movie was bizarre to me, in that I started out absolutely hating it (especially the main character and how he talked in -isms) and by the end I think I kind of liked it?

 

Also, I haven't listened to the episode yet but hot damn those kids in the movie had crazy chemistry and I was shocked when they didn't just starting fucking in the middle of the street at some point.

[achoohorsey16 34]

What was the deal with Uncle Macon's love of Google? I get that he excuses away the crazy unnatural lightning phenomena by saying "Oh, weird things like that happen all the time ... just Google it." That seems to imply that casters have some sort of manipulative control over Google search results. That would be impressive power, but I wonder why whatever ancient force that lies behind their centuries-old powers would account for controlling a digital medium that's only been around for 30 years. I guess they can do anything because magic? Or maybe there's casters in Silicon Valley ... I bet Gilfoyle's a siren.

 

 

I feel like they were trying to show his character attempt to connect with "the youths" by referencing Google, which any grandpa knows about.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

Let's talk alligators y'all.

 

When Ridley and Link are making out on the Tom Sawyer raft in the swamp lands of South Carolina we see they are surrounded by alligators. Whoa, bad ass right? Wrong! See this scene is in late December, and even though alligators are cold blooded they still do not like winter time. In fact in the winter time they enter a state of brumation. What's brumation? It's basically hibernation but for reptiles. When does this occur? When the temperature starts to dip below 70 degrees (21 Celsius). While Gatlin is made up know it is the low country or the coastal area because of the alligators and in these areas of South Caroline the mean December temperature is around the 48 to 50 degree mark (9 to 10 Celsius)! So those alligators in Beautiful Creatures would be sleeping and not swimming around. Unless of course Ridley's powers extend to alligators in which case she probably killed them.

 

Yes, the movie definitely seemed to treat winter in South Carolina as though it were Florida or something. My understanding was that SC is far enough north to be fairly cold in wintertime.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

Yes, the movie definitely seemed to treat winter in South Carolina as though it were Florida or something. My understanding was that SC is far enough north to be fairly cold in wintertime.

 

It’s all relative. The Gulf Stream’s effect on the coast can keep Winters pretty mild. Per NCBeaches’ website, “Locally, particularly off the coast of North Carolina, the Gulf Stream can affect water temperatures, providing warmer ocean waters and balmy days, even in the height of fall and winter.”

 

As someone currently living in the South (not too far from South Carolina), I can totally buy that their Winter’s are pretty moderate. Last year I never put on a jacket once, while this year it’s snowed three times. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Snow is still pretty rare, though.

 

Also, as a former Floridian, Florida can be surprisingly cold. I had relatives from Canada come visit me one winter and even they commented on how much colder it *felt* in Florida than it did in Toronto. It’s not really a temperature thing, so much as a humidity thing. The extra moisture in the air makes it so your clothes are less effective at keeping you warm. As a result, it can get bitingly cold. That being said, because of the Gulf Stream, those types of chilly days usually don’t last for more than a day or two.

 

[hotironskillet 137]

Also on a side note, I kept getting this movie mixed up with Nocturnal Animals all week. I can't explain it. The titles aren't that similar but for whatever reason that's the movie I kept looking for.

 

I kept getting this movie mixed up with that Neve Campbell movie, Wild Things, and I have no idea why.

[hotironskillet 137]

I feel like this is at least the 2nd time the topic of Hogwarts houses sorting has come up on the podcast and yet I don't think Jason has actually told us where he got sorted. I'm starting to think he's secretly a Hufflepuff and is ashamed of it.

[Cameron H. 23786]

You know how the book was written, whether broken up between Lena and Ethan's POV or just solely Ethan, but the movie definitely breaks them up. And in my honest opinion, I was way more interested in Lena's internal struggle between light and dark than I was about Ethan's bewilderment to being introduced to Lena's magical world. I believe that I mentioned in the recommendations thread that I honestly can't figure out why he was really there for 90% of the movie. It seemed like in one moment Lena is trying to hide everything from him and in the next she's telling him about her entire family history and he just is like oh cool let's go meet them and I'll spill my guts under a spell.

Well, honestly, I think we're getting into a bit of personal preference territory here. If you're more interested in her magical world more than his - comparatively - boring life, that makes complete sense. Her life as a Caster is one of the main reasons for the story to exist, but it's not the only reason. He's there because this isn't just a paranormal movie - it's a paranormal romance and he's there as the romantic lead. Now, whether or not he works for you in that role, really comes down to a matter of taste. For me personally, he works. I find him charming and their relationship believable.

What's important to me is what each of the characters needs to become whole. For Ethan, he's looking for an open mind in a small town. He's looking for affection and adventure. He's looking for someone who appreciates literature on his level and doesn't view it as something that will send him "straight to Hell." He wants something that will shake up his humdrum existence. Lena provides all these things for him.

 

As for what Lena needs, and what he can give her, he offers her acceptance and a sense of normalcy, as well as unconditional support and empathy. When Macon bespells him to "spill his guts," he could easily have run away (most rational people probably would), but instead he comes back - which proves his loyalty and bravery. And finally, from strictly a storytelling perspective, Ethan gives her something to fight for and something to lose.

So while I can't speak for anybody else, I think that's a pretty good balance and more than justifies his role in the movie - not only as the POV character, but as Lena's romantic equal. Especially so when you compare it to Twilight - which I only bring up as it is often held up as the gold standard and the catalyst for the entire YA paranormal romance movement. When you hold the two together, there's really no contest.

In Twilight, Edward, unlike Lena, doesn't need anything. He walks onto the scene fully formed: eternally young, rich, beautiful, and intelligent. All of his needs are met. He's well-adjusted and isn't in any danger - immediate or otherwise. And Bella, unlike Ethan, offers less than nothing. Her presence in Edward's life is more of an obstacle than anything. She literally can't give him anything beyond fawning adoration. In fact, we're told that the only reason he's interested in her at all is because she smells so good he wants to murder her and her empty mind gives him respite from his telepathic powers. In Beautiful Creatures, the plot touches on themes of alienation, conformity, bullying, destiny, female empowerment, free will, family dysfunction, death, loss, and the concept of Original Sin. In Twilight, the central conflict is, "How can I, an emotionless void, get this surly God-Monster to be my boyfriend (and possibly turn me into a vampire at a later date)?"

So, all that being said, I'd say that Beautiful Creatures offers better, more well-rounded characters (at least in terms of their leads) as well as a more emotionally satisfying story. Is it a good movie? Not really. I like it, but I'm not, like, in love with it or anything. I'm not crazy. But as representative of the genre, I think it's one of the better offerings.

 

Also, while I'm on the topic of Twilight, I wonder if Paul or Jason ever went back and watched the first three movies? When they said Twilight was better than this, I wondered if they are comparing Beautiful Creatures with Breaking Dawn Part 2 - the climatic culmination of the four earlier films. If so, that hardly seems fair.

[tomspanks 9039]

How did Macon know how to break the curse? Did Amma tell him?

[Cameron H. 23786]

They mentioned in the episode that Alice Englert wrote the song "Needle and Thread" for the movie.

 

 

...which sounds an awful like one of the

songs Robert Pattinson wrote for the first Twilight movie!

 

 

Do you think the filmmakers were like, "Alice, you've gotta write us a song! R-Patts did it in Twilight! All the YA movies are doing it. Just make sure it's full of lethargic acoustic guitar playing and the kind of vocal vibrato that sounds like someone is pulling your intestines out of your rectum."

[Cam Bert 8145]

 

...which sounds an awful like one of the

songs Robert Pattinson wrote for the first Twilight movie!

 

I had to look this up and this is from his wiki

 

The songs were included in the film after director Catherine Hardwicke added Pattinson's recordings into an early cut without his knowledge, and he agreed that "one of them specifically, it really made the scene better. It was like it was supposed to be there." The soundtrack for the film How to Be features three original songs performed by Pattinson and written by composer Joe Hastings. Pattinson has said, "I've never really recorded anything – I just played in pubs and stuff", and when asked about a professional music career, he said, "Music is my back-up plan if acting fails." In 2010, Pattinson was awarded the "Hollywood's Most Influential Top Unexpected Musicians" award.

In March 2017 interview Pattinson confirmed about contributing to the music of his upcoming film Damsel. Talking about it, he said that "I don’t play that much any more, though I am doing music for [‘Damsel’]. I used to differentiate between music and acting but the more I don’t play music, the more I push that area of my brain into acting. I improvise like I would when I play music.

 

They just can't stop putting his music in his movies!

[tomspanks 9039]

They mentioned in the episode that Alice Englert wrote the song "Needle and Thread" for the movie.

 

...which sounds an awful like one of the

songs Robert Pattinson wrote for the first Twilight movie!

 

Do you think the filmmakers were like, "Alice, you've gotta write us a song! R-Patts did it in Twilight! All the YA movies are doing it. Just make sure it's full of lethargic acoustic guitar playing and the kind of vocal vibrato that sounds like someone is pulling your intestines out of your rectum."

 

You know what, the RPats song isn’t bad if you speed it up 1.5x.

[Cameron H. 23786]

You know what, the RPats song isn’t bad if you speed it up 1.5x.

 

I should hope so. Each of his songs has a solid minute of intro before any singing begins. That's crazy. The song I'm embedding below is only two minutes long! How does it have a 1 minute intro? ETA: There are some very strage vocalizations at the 46 second mark though.

 

(This is the same video I was linking to above. The forums don't allow you to embed more than two videos in a single post)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ysizd52-rE

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

Was anyone else stunned that there was an extended discussion casting relatively unknown Alden Ehrenreich as young Han Solo and not one mention of Hayden Christiansen?

 

Well, maybe stunned is too strong of a word. Mildly surprised?

[Cam Bert 8145]

What is the best original song (musicals don't count) in a movie to be sung by one of the stars of the movie?

[grudlian. 4725]

What is the best original song (musicals don't count) in a movie to be sung by one of the stars of the movie?

I might be influenced by young Han Solo being in both but I really did love the song Rules Don't Apply from the very unenjoyable Rules Don't Apply. I was very annoyed the song didn't get nominated for an Oscar.