HDTGM Classics Vol. 11 Crank: High Voltage (7/6 9PM EST)

[taylor anne photo 11311]

So, yeah, I can see why Crank might have been appealing to people in 2009, but I really question people who still love it in 2018.

This is basically why I asked the question, because Paul and Amy both recorded that episode (I'm guessing) within the last month or so. Why they would still say they love those movies in 2018 is mind boggling to me, and is why I came back and asked if there was anyone that could give an insight.

 

I think grudlian is hitting the nail on the head in that neither one of them has probably revisited them in the last couple of years, and if they have... then I need to legitimately hear why they still say they love them because I can't figure it out.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

It just occurred to me that Jason and Paul loved Gamer. I couldn’t even get through that movie. I hated it for the same exact same reasons that I hate the Crank movies.

 

So that kind of throws my “What we were like ten years ago” theory. I have no idea why they would still like it.

I'm really glad I skipped Gamer then too...

[grudlian. 4725]

This is basically why I asked the question, because Paul and Amy both recorded that episode (I'm guessing) within the last month or so. Why they would still say they love those movies in 2018 is mind boggling to me, and is why I came back and asked if there was anyone that could give an insight.

 

I think grudlian is hitting the nail on the head in that neither one of them has probably revisited them in the last couple of years, and if they have... then I need to legitimately hear why they still say they love them because I can't figure it out.

Maybe this is saying a bit too much about myself but honestly, the biggest change in enjoyment between 2009 and 2018 for Crank was the energy. There really isn't a movie, except maybe Gamer, that feels like these movies. The very loose grip on reality, the insane concept, the everything really. Neveldine and Taylor are singular auteurs of a sort (good auteurs is another discussion).

 

And, that's what made me not enjoy Crank this time. Being racist, misogynist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. didn't bother me. It does bother me but that's not why I didn't enjoy this movie this time. It wasn't fun. It didn't feel energetic, or crazy. It was boring. Maybe part of that is the offensiveness but I don't think it was all of it. I'm not even sure why that wasn't my main problem with Crank 2.

 

Maybe it's an unwillingness to let go of liking it? Some kind of Goonies conundrum thing? I don't know.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Maybe this is saying a bit too much about myself but honestly, the biggest change in enjoyment between 2009 and 2018 for Crank was the energy. There really isn't a movie, except maybe Gamer, that feels like these movies. The very loose grip on reality, the insane concept, the everything really. Neveldine and Taylor are singular auteurs of a sort (good auteurs is another discussion).

 

And, that's what made me not enjoy Crank this time. Being racist, misogynist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. didn't bother me. It does bother me but that's not why I didn't enjoy this movie this time. It wasn't fun. It didn't feel energetic, or crazy. It was boring. Maybe part of that is the offensiveness but I don't think it was all of it. I'm not even sure why that wasn't my main problem with Crank 2.

 

Maybe it's an unwillingness to let go of liking it? Some kind of Goonies conundrum thing? I don't know.

Yeah I've been trying to think of movies that do portray some pretty shitty stuff that I still say I enjoy because yeah those things made me cringe a lot, but I'm positive there are still examples of movies that are good and still can be racist and homophobic in their portrayals.

 

I haven't thought of anything yet but I'm still at work and trying to act like I'm getting stuff done lololol

[Cameron H. 23786]

I think Grudlian’s right in it being a Goonies Conundrum thing. I think it matters when you were presented the material. For example, no one will ever tell me that Bill and Ted aren’t amazing, but they still call each other “f*gs” when they hug.

 

I think a part of your brain has to be willing to view a movie in its original context, but I also can’t blame people being introduced to B&T for the first time for thinking that it’s terrible and homophobic.

 

I mean, this debate is older than Shakespeare. I don’t know if there will ever be an easy answer.

[grudlian. 4725]

Yeah I've been trying to think of movies that do portray some pretty shitty stuff that I still say I enjoy because yeah those things made me cringe a lot, but I'm positive there are still examples of movies that are good and still can be racist and homophobic in their portrayals.

 

I haven't thought of anything yet but I'm still at work and trying to act like I'm getting stuff done lololol

I guess if you like any movie before the past couple years, you almost certainly like a movie that has some problematic stuff in it. I guess you can like them in spite of being offensive. But I'm trying to figure out why I don't like this and the main reason isn't it's offensiveness.

 

I've just figured out how to pretend I'm working...or no one expects anything from me. Either way.

[grudlian. 4725]

I think Grudlian’s right in it being a Goonies Conundrum thing. I think it matters when you were presented the material. For example, no one will ever tell me that Bill and Ted aren’t amazing, but they still call each other “f*gs” when they hug.

 

I think a part of your brain has to be willing to view a movie in its original context, but I also can’t blame people being introduced to B&T for the first time for thinking that it’s terrible and homophobic.

 

I mean, this debate is older than Shakespeare. I don’t know if there will ever be an easy answer.

I agree with this to a point.

 

Bill and Ted was made when using homophobic slurs was deemed acceptable though. I take that kind of stuff with a grain of salt. It's easy to let things slide that way even if maybe we shouldn't.

 

Crank 2 isn't even a decade old. Things have changed a lot in the last 10 years but this was offensive then. Maybe not as offensive but still definitely offensive. And I definitely knew better for some of this stuff. And that isn't even the reason I disliked it this time. I don't know.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

I agree with this to a point.

 

Bill and Ted was made when using homophobic slurs was deemed acceptable though. I take that kind of stuff with a grain of salt. It's easy to let things slide that way even if maybe we shouldn't.

 

Crank 2 isn't even a decade old. Things have changed a lot in the last 10 years but this was offensive then. Maybe not as offensive but still definitely offensive. And I definitely knew better for some of this stuff. And that isn't even the reason I disliked it this time. I don't know.

 

In terms of pacing it could be a result of you seeing so many movies since then. What seemed groundbreaking then seems sort of pedestrian now. It could be the result of the Flynn Effect.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Here's why I think Bill & Ted's and the Crank movies are different... Bill & Ted's is still good even with the homophobic slurs. Cameron, I think you mentioned in the Blues Brothers thread that there are some things where one bad joke can ruin the whole thing for you, right? Well for me, even though we all know that slur is used in really poor taste, we also know they weren't trying to be homophobic (or at least like they weren't trying to say they hate gay people or anything) and there was no malice really intended. I think Crank 2 intended to be as vile as it could be for the shock value, which takes me out of it completely. But even if you take out all of the racism, homophobia, & misogyny, this is not a good movie. So that's why I'm trying really hard to figure out what it is that people like about it.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Here's why I think Bill & Ted's and the Crank movies are different... Bill & Ted's is still good even with the homophobic slurs. Cameron, I think you mentioned in the Blues Brothers thread that there are some things where one bad joke can ruin the whole thing for you, right? Well for me, even though we all know that slur is used in really poor taste, we also know they weren't trying to be homophobic (or at least like they weren't trying to say they hate gay people or anything) and there was no malice really intended. I think Crank 2 intended to be as vile as it could be for the shock value, which takes me out of it completely. But even if you take out all of the racism, homophobia, & misogyny, this is not a good movie. So that's why I'm trying really hard to figure out what it is that people like about it.

 

I wasn't in anyway trying to say that B&T = Crank. Obviously, B&T is a better movie. I was just saying that what was acceptable at one point often becomes unacceptable over time. We can make excuses for B&T and say that they weren't being intentionally homophobic, but I could make the same argument and say that Swing Time wasn't trying to be maliciously racist. Yet, that scene in Swing Time soured the whole thing for me. It's at the bottom of my AFI list specifically for that reason. For some people watching B&T now for the first time, their use of a homophobic slurs is going to be just as offensive. They aren't wrong to feel that way and we aren't right for giving it a bit of a pass. It is offensive, but the movie is still good. The funny thing is, as turned off as I was by the racism in Swing Time, I'll probably be more forgiving of the racism in Gone With the Wind simply because of my own personal context for that movie.

 

How this is applies to Crank is, yes, it was deliberately trying to be offensive, but even just 10 years ago, a lot of people were still kind of looking the other way. Watching Crank for the first time now is like watching it in a completely different world. What was offensive then has become *really* offensive now.

 

As far as taking everything out of it and it still being a bad movie? Absolutely. It's fucking trash. It's the type of movie that makes me simultaneously sick and angry while I watch it.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

 

I wasn't in anyway trying to say that B&T = Crank. Obviously, B&T is a better movie. I was just saying that what was acceptable at one point often becomes unacceptable over time. We can make excuses for B&T and say that they weren't being intentionally homophobic, but I could make the same argument and say that Swing Time wasn't trying to be maliciously racist. Yet, that scene in Swing Time soured the whole thing for me. It's at the bottom of my AFI list specifically for that reason. For some people watching B&T now for the first time, their use of a homophobic slurs is going to be just as offensive. They aren't wrong to feel that way and we aren't right for giving it a bit of a pass. It is offensive, but the movie is still good. The funny thing is, as turned off as I was by the racism in Swing Time, I'll probably be more forgiving of the racism in Gone With the Wind simply because of my own personal context for that movie.

 

How this is applies to Crank is, yes, it was deliberately trying to be offensive, but even just 10 years ago, a lot of people were still kind of looking the other way. Watching Crank for the first time now is like watching it in a completely different world. What was offensive then has become *really* offensive now.

 

As far as taking everything out of it and it still being a bad movie? Absolutely. It's fucking trash. It's the type of movie that makes me simultaneously sick and angry while I watch it.

Oh I should have reworded that first line then cause that wasn't what I meant by "here's how they're different." And I wasn't trying to say that's what you said either. I was merely commenting on the kind of camp of "well this movie did this offensive thing and then this other movie did this offensive thing," ya know? Because I so think that "unknowingly" vs "knowingly" can be a big difference in my book.

 

You bring up a very good point with Swing Time and then Gone with the Wind, although I still think even back then they knew exactly what they were doing in terms of black face because I've read since that particular thread from some historians much smarter than me that black face was only ever intended to do harm and was introduced to mock black people. So it's very hard for me to see Fred Astaire do that and ever think he was intending to "honor" a friend. Anyway, even between Swing Time and Gone with the Wind it's kinda that same thing for me. Yes, GwtW is problematic but you take out those problems and it's a solid fuckin' movie. I'm not giving it a pass, nor B&T, or ignoring the problems, but I can recognize these are problems and then still continue to enjoy the films because they are still good. But you're very right in that if I were seeing these for the first time it may completely ruin the whole experience for me.

 

I'm still trying to think of recent examples where I saw something for the first time or if something came out recently that was problematic but still good. I'll get back to y'all on that when I get home lol.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Quick look through in my Letterboxd and I didn't find anything blatantly problematic that I had liked recently.

 

So basically let's throw out all my theories and just go back to I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHY PEOPLE WOULD STILL LIKE THIS!

[grudlian. 4725]

So basically let's throw out all my theories and just go back to I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHY PEOPLE WOULD STILL LIKE THIS!

some people aren't millennial snowflakes

[EvRobert 1684]

I haven't visited Crank or Crank 2 since probably 2011. I bought those movies on blu-ray having only ever seen them once and laughing continuously through it and got a really weird Crank 2 blu-ray where everything was the size of like a postage stamp (this was a Black Friday wal-mart deal). went and ORDERED a second blu ray from Amazon, same problem. I decided that I wasn't supposed to watch those movies again and I haven't.

 

I think at the time, I laughed at Crank for the same reason I laughed at Machete. I hadn't ever seen anything like it before. It was so over the top it was like Loony Toons with blood and sex and cursing. however that doesn't translate well into rewatchability unless the writing is really good. I think it's a case of style over substance.