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Cameron H.

The Shawshank Redemption

Does The Shawshank Redemption deserve to be on the AFI list?  

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  1. 1. Does The Shawshank Redemption deserve to be on the AFI list?

    • Take me to Zihuatanejo
      11
    • There's no hope.
      5

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  • Poll closed on 08/02/18 at 03:59 AM

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6 hours ago, CameronH said:

It was the first one. I'm sure that's why Toy Story 1 is on there, too. I think they are meant to representative of the whole. Which isn't entirely fair, of course. By that rationale, there would only be one Western on the list. I think it's the same thinking that puts The Fellowship of the Ring and A New Hope on the list and not Return of the King and The Empire Strikes Back. As I brought up on the other thread, if an updated list were to include superhero movies (and they didn't automatically go with The Dark Knight), I'm guessing they would probably pick Iron Man 1 to represent the era of superheroes and shared universes, even if it isn't necessarily the "best" the genre has to offer.

Yes exactly. It's this weird thing this list seems to have with including one thing to represent all of something which we talked about before with The French Connection and Top Hat. While I understand that it still doesn't sit right with me.

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1 minute ago, Cam Bert said:

Yes exactly. It's this weird thing this list seems to have with including one thing to represent all of something which we talked about before with The French Connection and Top Hat. While I understand that it still doesn't sit right with me.

I like Snow White and I think it holds up pretty well, but I would probably replace it with Beauty and the Beast. I’m not sure about Toy Story...maybe Wall-E would be a better pick. Or Finding Nemo.

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For animated films, the original AFI 100 had both Snow White and Fantasia. On the updated list, Fantasia was out and Toy Story in.

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So I just wanted to pop my head up to say that I have had the same criticism of it as Amy, that I thought it would have taken more guts as a storyteller to tell the story of a guilty man, but made you sympathetic to his plight. Having him be innocent all along just seems like too easy of a way out.

Also, about 10 years ago there was a meme of remixing the Opera scene with Andy playing other songs for the prisoners (Phil Colins, Iron Maiden, etc,). This one is my favorite:

 

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1 minute ago, Lando said:

So I just wanted to pop my head up to say that I have had the same criticism of it as Amy, that I thought it would have taken more guts as a storyteller to tell the story of a guilty man, but made you sympathetic to his plight. Having him be innocent all along just seems like too easy of a way out.

Also, about 10 years ago there was a meme of remixing the Opera scene with Andy playing other songs for the prisoners (Phil Colins, Iron Maiden, etc,). This one is my favorite:

 

LANDO!!! I hope you've been well!

I do agree with that criticism. It's not a deal breaker for me, but it would have made the movie a bit more complex.

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1 hour ago, Lando said:

So I just wanted to pop my head up to say that I have had the same criticism of it as Amy, that I thought it would have taken more guts as a storyteller to tell the story of a guilty man, but made you sympathetic to his plight. Having him be innocent all along just seems like too easy of a way out.

I mean the movie tried a bit to play with the idea that his innocence is questionable but ultimately I think it puts too much into the innocent side to really leave it a question for the viewer to determine. Again, I think the novella keeps this a bit more ambiguous. Andy helps Tommy turn his life around and when he finally does he magically remembers this story that can prove Andy's innocence. The timing is questionable enough but in the novella the warden doesn't have him murdered rather transfers him to another prison. He may be innocent of the murder of his wife but was certainly guilty of fraud. Also he felt guilt for the murder because he felt his actions pushed her away and ultimately lead to her death.

Anyway, to me the issue of Andy's innocence or not doesn't effect the movie too much because I always viewed it as Red's story. Yes, it literally is his story as he's telling us what happened but it is more than that. While Andy does get his redemption from his guilt, it's more about how his actions and his way of thinking changed Red and the prison in general. It's not a story of one man's personal redemption but rather how his actions gave hope to others and through that many got their chance as well. He's the catalyses for change and we see that in the actions of others and ultimately through Red. To compare briefly to one of my all time favourite films and a far better prison movie, Cool Hand Luke. Luke's actions on the surface seem very self serving, but what he is doing is not for him but it's for the other inmates and gives them hope. Andy to the a lesser degree is that in Shawshank and that change he brings is not hindered or hurt by his guilt or innocence. While I agree it would make his character more complex, but making him guilty I think would go against the not so subtle "Andy suffered for their sins" religious allegory of the film.

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7 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

While I agree it would make his character more complex, but making him guilty I think would go against the not so subtle "Andy suffered for their sins" religious allegory of the film.

This is a really good point, Cam. It kind of defeats the purpose of having a Jesus figure if he's going to be guilty. 

But, for those who want Andy to be guilty, I suppose you could subscribe to the A Place in the Sun philosophy of (SPOILER ALERT for a 67-year-old movie) "He had murder in his heart so it doesn't really matter if he actually killed her or not." 

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13 hours ago, CameronH said:

I like Snow White and I think it holds up pretty well, but I would probably replace it with Beauty and the Beast. I’m not sure about Toy Story...maybe Wall-E would be a better pick. Or Finding Nemo.

Up, in my opinion, is better than Wall-E. Nemo is great but I feel like Up is an AFI kinda movie with the way you sob in the first 10 minutes.

Also I wonder if they're trying to get you to honestly watch all of the films instead of just picking the best in each franchise with Fellowship and Star Wars. If they tell you to watch only the best ones then someone who had never seen them before will be dropped in the middle of the stories, but if they tell you the first ones then you get into the best ones once you continue.

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13 hours ago, CameronH said:

For clarity’s sake, they probably should specify the type of film, but I think they just assume we know, you know? Like they’re going by Academy Rules where Best Picture doesn’t necessarily best of *all* pictures. Documentaries go over there in their own category...

Which is why it also seems like a bunch of really amazing comedies that have been around and held up for years also seem to get ignored. I still stand by the fact that Clueless is one of the best films this country has ever put out but it would never be considered for this list (hell when I found out it wasn't even on the best comedy list I about lost my shit).

But there are very rare times when we see comedians get recognized, like Melissa McCarthy getting nominated for Best Supporting Actress for Bridesmaids, but I still don't think the AFI list would ever seriously take that movie into consideration.

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1 minute ago, taylorannephoto said:

Up, in my opinion, is better than Wall-E. Nemo is great but I feel like Up is an AFI kinda movie with the way you sob in the first 10 minutes.

Also I wonder if they're trying to get you to honestly watch all of the films instead of just picking the best in each franchise with Fellowship and Star Wars. If they tell you to watch only the best ones then someone who had never seen them before will be dropped in the middle of the stories, but if they tell you the first ones then you get into the best ones once you continue.

Up probably would be better. I knew I was forgetting one.

i think that’s exactly what they’re doing with Star Wars and LotR, but that calls into the arbitrary nature of the picks. I don’t think they want to waste space on multiple movies from the same franchise if they can avoid it, but they also don’t want to suggest a sequel. I guess the only exception would be The Godfather 1 And 2, but I suppose those movies are different enough.

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1 minute ago, CameronH said:

Up probably would be better. I knew I was forgetting one.

i think that’s exactly what they’re doing with Star Wars and LotR, but that calls into the arbitrary nature of the picks. I don’t think they want to waste space on multiple movies from the same franchise if they can avoid it, but they also don’t want to suggest a sequel. I guess the only exception would be The Godfather 1 And 2, but I suppose those movies are different enough.

And I think it's because Marlon and DeNiro's portrayals of the same man is so universally beloved that I'm guessing none of the people voting could choose which one they wanted more.

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1 hour ago, taylorannephoto said:

Up, in my opinion, is better than Wall-E. Nemo is great but I feel like Up is an AFI kinda movie with the way you sob in the first 10 minutes.

Also I wonder if they're trying to get you to honestly watch all of the films instead of just picking the best in each franchise with Fellowship and Star Wars. If they tell you to watch only the best ones then someone who had never seen them before will be dropped in the middle of the stories, but if they tell you the first ones then you get into the best ones once you continue.

I think the other thing, especially in Star Wars's case, is that the first one was such an impressive visual effects feat that it is rewarding the first film that did it which would be the first in the series. 

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This episode was so frustrating to listen to I ended up turning it off 15 mins into the podcast. This is the same problem I had with The Canon podcast. It's fine if Amy doesnt like the movie or doesnt feel like it should be on the list but I feel like she does this constantly with movies she personally feels are "overhyped" where she refuses to engage on any discussion about deeper themes or things that the other host thought were done well.if I remember correctly she does this alot with Martin scorcese films also. I feel like most of her responses are in the vein of              " mehh this is just a movies about guys hanging out in prison". Maybe paul should force her to do the How Did This Get Made podcast for a few weeks so she can really see what a bad movie is. The entire episode was ruined for me because of her attitude and I'm not even a huge fan or Shawshank. I just think if you're going to be such an obvious fangirl for movies like Titanic or old Hollywood movies like Citizen Kane then you should at least engage other people when they want to discuss mo ids they like.

Ps I'm pretty sure she said that Streets of Fire was a good movie a couple of weeks ago and anyone who thinks that shouldnt be able to call another movie bad Haha . That movie is terrible 

 

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I'm super late, but I voted yes on this.  Even though I haven't watched it again since the 90s, I remembered so much about the movie.  I don't love it, but the story/plot is so engrossing I can't help but pay attention.  Something different I noticed this time around though was whenever Captain Hadley was on screen, I couldn't stop thinking "that's Mr. Krabs!"

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On 7/29/2018 at 10:46 PM, CameronH said:

LANDO!!! I hope you've been well!

I do agree with that criticism. It's not a deal breaker for me, but it would have made the movie a bit more complex.

I have been well. I went from withdrawing from forums and the like because I was miserable at my job to not having any time to participate in forums because of starting a new, much more fulfilling job at the end of 2017. I hope you've been doing well and glad to see they've put you in charge of the Unspooled discussions.

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4 minutes ago, Lando said:

I hope you've been doing well and glad to see they've put you in charge of the Unspooled discussions.

Ha! It’s nothing official. More that I get impatient to talk to you guys :)

I have been doing well, though. Thank you. That’s exciting about your new job. Congratulations!

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