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A Clockwork Orange

A Clockwork Orange  

18 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Does "A Clockwork Orange" belong on the AFI list?

    • Yes. Well, don't think about it too long.
    • No! NO! Stop it! Stop it, please! I beg you! This is sin!
  2. 2. Which is the better film?

    • A Clockwork Orange
    • Taxi Driver

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  • Poll closed on 12/07/18 at 08:00 AM

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Belated comparative list post

70    46    7    235    93    8    75    35    104    8.3    80    82        nominated    French Connection

AFI (2007 | 1997): 70th | 46th

BFI Critic's poll, 2012 (ranking, US filtered ranking, votes): 235, 93, 7 votes

BFI Director's poll, 2012 (ranking, US filtered ranking, votes): 75, 35, 8 votes

IMDB (rank, rating): 104, 8.3

Metascore: 80


Oscar BP status: nominated, winner The French Connection

Including the various different lists for most Kubrick movies.  Decided to order by the They Shoot Films list since it had most of them in the top 1000 and it is an aggregate of other lists.  Spartacus being on the current AFI list seems like the the biggest outlier.  Barry Lyndon does really poorly with the AFI (and IMDB) (it's unclear if it's eligible or not, but it's not clear why it wouldn't be if ACO is).  ACO does really well Directors compared to the Critics list, and TSFDT seems to reflect what most people would identify as their cultural popularity (except Barry Lyndon which I think got a second life once DVDs became a thing and people rediscovered it as part of various Kubrick collections, but that's just my take on things.  No evidence to back that up).  IMDB overall just seems 8.x for everything really well known (I didn't bother to find the actual rankings on its top 250 list).

Kubrick                        AFI    AFI 1997    BFI Critics     BFI Directors   IMDB Rating     TSFDT
2001                             15     22               6                    2                        8.3                      3
Dr. Strangelove          39     26               117               107                    8.4                      48
Barry Lyndon              --      --                  59                 19                      8.1                      51
A Clockwork Orange  70     46               235               75                      8.3                      82
The Shining                  --     --                  154               75                      8.4                      94
Paths of Glory              --     --                  377               107                   8.4                      265
Eyes Wide Shut            --     --                  377               546                   7.4                      325
Full Metal Jacket          --     --                   --                   322                  8.3                      586
The Killing                    --     --                  894                322                  8                          598
Lolita                             --     --                  894                546                  7.6                      681
Spartacus                    81     --                 --                     --                     7.9                      683

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Love the podcast, but I'm not sure you understood the point of this film. To me, the point of the film was to show how disconnected from the consequences of his actions and how unconcerned with morality Alex was. You aren't meant to care for him or to like him, but rather you're shown his viewpoint, through narration, and not shown any concern/sympathy/or relation to his victims in order to understand how he doesn't concern himself with those things at all.  Also, he's not meant to be shown as a victim after he's made to be sickened by violence or sexuality by the government program. The film is showing you how he no longer functions in such a violent society. His friends went on to become cops. His victims go on to torture him. He was robbed not only of his free will but of his ability to survive in a society where everyone uses their position or capability for violence to force their will on other people. He's a rapist who is raped mentally by the government brainwashing program and is left shattered and unable to go back to his normal life. What happens to him is a metaphor for what he did to the women he raped and the people he crippled. It's not that he becomes a victim it's that Kubrick is showing you that the government/society does the same kind of damage but on a mass scale by controlling how we see the world and how we function in it. 


Also, it baffles me that everyone who watches this film basically says "well, he's obviously evil," because he kills and rapes people and then goes on to say that Kubrick is glorifying such acts, trying to make them comical or make light of them, or that he's trying to make Alex likable. You didn't get that impression. You clearly knew he was evil. How many of US do you think are dumb enough to not know that? Were their copycat crimes? I mean, not really. There were sick people who wanted to rape and kill people and who either got associated with this movie by the press or because they wanted an excuse for their actions or a way to paint them as rebellious or "inspired" after they got caught. We don't blame artists for people who create nothing but destruction hurting people and then invoking their name.  Does rap music create violence? Does heavy metal music? No. Do you want to know what does create violence? Indifference to the suffering of others caused by overwhelming self-centeredness developed in a latchkey childhood which turns a kid into the kind of teenager who feels that the great tragedy of their life is having their favorite composer/film franchise/ comic book character/form of entertainment ruined by adults. It's like how more people are concerned with whether or not they can listen to Micheal Jackson anymore as opposed to the kids he molested. 

Alex is a millennial playing an exaggerated version of the knockout game. a pregnancy pact, a fake campus rape allegation, the lick food challenge, revenge porn, or huffing fermented shit out of a ziplock bag.  Burgess was right.  We decided to have our own lives was more important than being involved parents and our kids became detached monsters who seem to be incapable of understanding how their actions can affect other people. 


The entire point of the film was that society will become so fucked up in the future that our youth will become vapid, morally bankrupt psychopaths who can't feel anything for anyone besides themselves and if we ever do force them to be the idealized picture of good citizens they wouldn't be able to function in a society so fucked up it made them that way in the first place. Is Alex evil? Of course, and you have to deny the "of course" part in order to make any accusations against this film. 

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