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Episode #245 - Money Plane

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This was like a knock off DVD of an episode of Leverage and honestly I loved every stupid second. 

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Most underrated best plane movie excuetive decision your not going make it. You wil 

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3 hours ago, CNU2007 said:

The Ringer did an oral history on Money Plane: https://www.theringer.com/movies/2020/7/14/21320061/money-plane-oral-history-kelsey-grammer

Asked 9 questions about it: https://www.theringer.com/movies/2020/7/10/21319193/money-plane-questions-kelsey-grammer-the-edge-vod

And did an exit survey on it: https://www.theringer.com/movies/2020/7/13/21322693/money-plane-review-exit-survey-kelsey-grammer-edge

Seems like this movie is getting recognition for all the wrong reasons! Good choice for the podcast.

The best part of that exit survey is the information that Thomas Jane bought that pipe at a flea market the day before and insisted it be a part of his character in the movie.

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A few things:

1. Kelsey Grammar's nickname was "The Rumble;" as in the sound of thunder. Why would he name himself after the sound your tummy makes when you're hungry? "Rumpel" is also wrong, but slightly more plausible because that's the German word for "Rumble." 

2. Zero mentions of the best line of the movie: "It's Rumble Time!" "Rumble Time" should have been the new GEOSTOOOOOOOORM!  RUMBLE TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME!!!!

3. Rumble Theory: Grouch was actually a wannabe gangster looking to move up the criminal food chain. He spent years doing small-time gigs and figured he was a big fish in a small pond. So, his motivation to take down the Money Plane was to prove that he could run with the Big Dawgs. This is why The Rumble kept saying his own nickname and checking in on ManBun (and also why he didn't have an entire gallery of brain-spattered Jackson Pollocks). If he were a competent Crime Boss, he wouldn't need to hedge his bets by double crossing or getting multiple progress reports from ManBun. Unfortunately for The Rumble, the Crime Boss Peter Principle involves your ass getting murdered. 

4. "Bald Pipe" is what Jason calls his penis after he manscapes.

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So much wonderfully wrong with this movie.

- When they're playing Russian Roulette they offer odds of 20/1. For a world-renowned bad guy airplane casino they really don't have much of a grasp of probability!

- So eh... HOW do you bet on a man fucking an alligator? Is it like the dude versus the snake - you wager on how long he'll last?

- Why is Mcgillicuddy doing a cartoon sneak when he's moving around the plane? Definitely won't attract suspicion that way.

- When the plane gets knocked about during the cockpit fight why does NOBODY GO TO CHECK WHAT'S HAPPENING? They assure passengers that everything is fine but don't bother going up to make sure the pilots haven't y'know, died or been beaten up or something?

- WHY IS THERE NO SECURITY ON THIS PLANE EXCEPT FOR THE TWO DUDES RUNNING THE SHOW?

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When it comes to the premise of the Money Plane as a flying casino in international airspace, there is, surprise, surprise, a fatal flaw.  Every aircraft flying internationally is required to be registered to a particular country.  If that aircraft is in a nation's airspace, the nation it is flying over has jurisdiction, but if it is over international waters the nation the plane is registered to has jurisdiction.  Of course, none of that matters since the major criminals boarding the plane would all be rounded up in the airport since Money Plane apparently has it's own gate at a commercial airport.

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Hang on - I ALWAYS peel the entire banana. How else are you going to examine it for gross, bruisy, mushy bits before you eat it? You're just taking bites of your banana BLIND?!? WOW you people live on the edge.

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Worst heist crew ever.  Manbun is as inept at being a father as he is a criminal.  He keeps his loaded gun in an unlocked bedside drawer that is about 16 inches from the floor.  Perfect height for, I don't know, a 10 year old girl to stumble across.  Did not see any trigger lock on that bad boy either.

Regarding the criminal ineptitude of the team in general, Grouch and Manbun agree that "Taking down the house" on the Money Plane is a near impossible task that will require perfect planning and execution.  Then Manbun meets with his team to discuss the heist plan for the better part of 3 minutes!  During the heist, the guy who bitches and moans about being ground support shows up with what looks like a bunch of old junk he hasn't used in years and a rat's nest of tangled cords.  And their final plan to "Manually distribute" the cash to people who need it is to throw it all out of the plane, including one wrapped block of bills that must weigh 30 pounds, all of which will either land in the ocean or likely kill someone on the ground.

Speaking of...In spite of their general goofiness, they are pretty quick to violently murder people in the way as part of their MO.  Makes me wonder about their other capers, robbing museums and such.  Do they brutally kill the poor security guards who are just doing their jobs.  Maybe they deserve a seat at the table on the MONEY PLANE!!! (Sequel Idea)

Also have to call out the $14 dollar lava lamp on the bar of the most exclusive high-rollers room in the entire world.

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For me, this movie really highlighted the importance of good editing. Not in a grammatical sense or ensuring that superfluous scenes end up on the cutting room floor, but in how the order of a scene is so important in making them feel necessary.

For example, there's a scene where Katrina Norman is attacked. Afterwards, she reveals that the safe she's supposed to crack, but realizes that the specs for the safe are different than what they prepared for. Man-Bun asks her if she can do it. She says, yes, but it will take time -- which he says they don't have. It cuts back to her, she takes the goon's finger, places it on the keypad, and bing! it immediately opens. Not only is that all super boring, but it makes the previous line about the safe being nigh impenetrable absolutely pointless.

It would have made far more engaging for her to uncover the uncrackable safe first, call Man-Bun and say, "Hey, bro, we have a problem. The safe is going to take more time than we thought. Plus, it requires thumb print identification." He could then say that they don't have that kind of time, and maybe even give her a ticking clock. (i.e. "If we don't open that safe in the next three minutes we're toast!") THEN, while focused on cracking the safe, she gets caught off guard. So now we have her in a situation where if she doesn't win this fight, she's going to be exposed or killed. At the same time, the fight is also costing precious seconds that they don't have, threatening to blow the entire operation. She could then defeat the guard, maybe give a comedic nod to the fact that there's no way some random guard would have the thumbprint required that will open it, tries it anyway, and boom, it works!

My version includes all the elements that made it into the final film, but in reordering them, it increases the the stakes considerably. There's absolutely no point in introducing a problem just for your character to resolve it immediately. Good drama means continually ratcheting the tension by constantly stacking the decks against the heroes.

 

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9 hours ago, PilotHaz said:

It was always 'The Rumble' not Grouch or Grumple....

I love Jason's hated of 'The guy on the ground' who is Andrew Lawrence the actor, director and screenplay writer of this movie.  When I first saw him on the screen I was intrigued  - then seeing he added both his brothers in supporting roles was just classic.   

Matt Lawrence being 'The Cowboy' was great and I actually didn't recognize him at the start.  I thought it was some Johnny Knoxville look alike.  

In the 3rd act where they are jumping off the plane I don't understand why they didn't have a larger wind machine for breaking the seal/pressure of the plane.  Money doesn't flow out at an alarming speed which it would.  As they jump it just seems the are popping off onto a mat below.

That there was no burst of air when they opened the door on the plane I was almost furious because that means they really weren't giving a shit by that point, or the plane was basically flying a hundred feet in the air over wherever they are.

1 hour ago, PokemonCreationist said:

A few things:bas

 

3. Rumble Theory: Grouch was actually a wannabe gangster looking to move up the criminal food chain. He spent years doing small-time gigs and figured he was a big fish in a small pond. So, his motivation to take down the Money Plane was to prove that he could run with the Big Dawgs. This is why The Rumble kept saying his own nickname and checking in on ManBun (and also why he didn't have an entire gallery of brain-spattered Jackson Pollocks). If he were a competent Crime Boss, he wouldn't need to hedge his bets by double crossing or getting multiple progress reports from ManBun. Unfortunately for The Rumble, the Crime Boss Peter Principle involves your ass getting murdered.

 

This was what I was thinking with how he was talking and having an underling named P-Roach, that or Grammer saw Vince Vaughn as a wannabe gangster in Be Cool and thought he could do it better, including listening to club rap/trap music whenever he calls someone. The only thing missing was him spraying Crystal on everyone he talked to.

As I was watching this, it was clear Andy Lawrence basically pulled/stole ideas from the movies he enjoys watching because this was filled with so many tropes from the thief in heavy debt going for one last job, the previously thought impenetrable big money mark is hit by a crack team of specialists, to the inevitable double cross by the client, among other things. It is also clear that the Lawrence brothers learned not much from their decades of acting experience in regards to making a movie because this was all so cheap and old looking. Like when Edge was going over that basic as hell plan of how they were going to rip off the plane, I was assuming that nothing was going to be according to plan and they'd have to improvise to complete the heist, sort of like A is For Amateur from The ABCs of Death 2 where the imagining is nothing like the reality. Also what is more telling about how low budget this is, this was not released under the WWE Films banner, which is par for the course any time a contracted wrestler, which Edge was at the time of this filming. They could not even get a bit of promotion or funding from there and they have produced some truly shitty movies

Lastly, in regards to a dude putting his bare feet up in a casino and Thomas Jane's kookyness, he apparently loves going barefoot at public events as watching a show on youtube, one of the hosts talked about going to a red carpet premier for one of the Walking Dead season premiers and Thomas Jane was near him, and he walked the red carpet barefoot and then proceeded to talk through the episode as if he'd never actually seen a TV show of any kind before let alone one about a zombie apocalypse. Also, whenever I hear of someone being barefoot in a casino this is the scene that instantly comes to mind because of how disgusting it just looks and what seems like the proper response to it.

 

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I honestly still can't believe that we are supposed to buy Man-Bun as some kind of gentlemen thief. The dude is conspicuous as all Hell! Isn't the idea for thieves (and spies) to be sort of nondescript? I mean, if you're already an uncommonly large man, and your objective is to blend, why on Earth would you voluntarily saddle yourself with so many additional easily identifiable features? You'd get caught in a fucking heartbeat. 

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The cowboy name is jr crockett. Jr is the best announcer and crockett is the wrestling territory ted turner turned into wcw 

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Regarding Iggy, I too found his role absolutely baffling. He is set up as the getaway driver, but then is immediately relegated to ground support. Why not just make him their all around vehicle proficiency guy? That way, instead of our main character having to pilot the Money Plane himself, essentially making him narratively useless for a good third of the film, you could have Iggy in the cockpit.

From a writing standpoint, this would put Man-Bun front and center on the casino floor where he belongs, while simultaneously adding a bit more drama to the film by forcing him to confront his gambling addiction head on. Honestly, why not add the dimension where he has to be the man on the floor because he's the only one with the gambling skills to survive the Money Plane, but in so doing, risks getting sucked back into the world of illicit gambling and potentially putting the entire mission at risk? And on a story level, having Iggy in the cockpit would also solve the issue of McGillicuddy continually having to "make an appearance" (as he puts it) on the casino floor so he doesn't arouse suspicion. I mean, why the Hell would you assign the job of "front-facing schmoozer" to the person who needs to be able surreptitiously slip away in order to do his job?

If the movie really felt the need for a guy on the ground, Thomas Jane was right freaking there!   

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I realize it’s a cliché, but this movie really needed an over-the-top Nick Cage-level performance from the lead. Edge plays it as if he’s taking this role seriously, which is completely wrong for this flick. Rest his soul, but imagine Roddy Piper in this role. It would make this movie transcendent. 

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Oh my god...IMDB has this listed as a sequel to Money Train!  Let's hear how these movies are connected

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Maybe the strangest thing about the Russian roulette scene was that Paul didn't shout out the Unspooled podcast and the most famous scene of The Deer Hunter. 

Or maybe not so strange, as, like much of the movie, the scene was trying to be both "serious" and kooky at the same time, and just ended up being eyeroll-inducing. 

I have too many questions. First of all, why they would be firing a gun in what should be a very sealed, pressured, contained enviornment in the first place? Second, what was the emotional trauma of the Cowboy to not just call for the game but also to participate in it? And what are the odds of 20:1 supposed to be for, anyway? Is it just for who wins/loses? Because the odds of survival for the participants do not match in any way the odds of winning the bet. Unless there's a point spread and odds are to place, which still doesn't make sense.  

Why bother getting into an argument over who should go first? The odds are exactly the same. If there's one bullet in the chamber, it's a 1 in 6 chance of firing, that's over an 80% chance of survival. Intuitively, it would make sense to want to go first. What about going second? Obviously, we didn't get to see that far in the movie, as the Cowbody got unlucky on his first try. But if we assume they don't spin the chamber, counterintuitively, it's the same odds every try. There's two factors of chance at play-- the chance that the other person dies on his turn will affect the probability of whether you have to play at all. These two factors in essense balance each other out. leaving that same 1 in 6 chance every time. Now, if they do spin the chamber, there's always going to be a 1 in 6 chance, but with the compounded probabilitiy of whether you have to play at all, that does give you a slightly better chance of winning, but only in the latter rounds of play, and I doubt McGillicuddy or the Cowboy were trying to play the "long game" in this scenario. 

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A couple things.

 

1.  My friend noticed that if you look at the eyes of one of the extras storming "The Rumble'sS place at the end, it's clearly Joey Laurence, because obv Andrew needed some extras but didn't want to hire any.

2.  They forgot to mention how when the girl was entering the plane, she walked through a metal detector, it went off, and she pulled a gun out of her... let's say... "dress," which is crazy enough.  But then she just kind of shrugged like "you got me" and gave it to the people on the plane who were like "oh you."  If you try to sneak a gun on a plane, they don't just throw it out like it's a water bottle.  I mean I guess it's a criminal plane but still... they had no questions for her?

3.  It made me laugh that in the first scene, Jack wore glasses to the art museum to look "smart."

4.  And finally, this is the second time Paul has told his Melissa Joan Hart story.  He's also told the story about trying to tongue kiss his mom twice.  But in both cases, June and Jason have forgotten these stories.  How many weird ass stories from childhood must this guy have that they barely flinch over these two?!  If my friend told me he had met MJH and kissed his mom on the mouth I'd never be able to forget those things!  Paul's got some dark stories that out weigh those ones by a mile and I want to know what they are!  (PS love you Paul.  I believe your ghost story)

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18 hours ago, Smigg. said:

Fun fact about Edge, he has held the most titles in WWE history, holding 31 championships throughout his career.

4-time WWE Champion
7-Time World Heavyweight Champion
5-Time Intercontinental Champion
United States Champion
2-Time WWE Tag Team Champion
12-Time World Tag Team Champion

On top of that, he has won a Royal Rumble, a King of the Ring, and Money in the Bank.

I can't think of anyone better to rob a plane.

And he cheated with lita and he blocked me for pointing that out alot

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38 minutes ago, BoBoBlonkers said:

He won the royal rumble?  Obviously he was able to beat the regular rumble!

 

He's not even in the top 5 in the Hierarchy of Rumbles.

1 - Royal Rumble
2 - Anthony "Rumble" Johnson
3 - Michael Buffer's "Let's Get Ready To Rumble" catchphrase.
4 - The song "Let's Get Ready to Rumble" by PJ & Duncan
5 - The Rumble in the Jungle, between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman.

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10 hours ago, AdrianFlynn said:

And he cheated with lita and he blocked me for pointing that out alot

Edge is a weird one in that respect.

He was married to Val Venis' sister, and cheated on her with his second wife.  Then he cheated on his second wife, with Lita.  So, when he cheated with Lita, who was engaged to Matt Hardy at the time, and Edge was the one who came out looking the best of everyone.  Hell, Matt Hardy, the one who got cheated on came out of it looking the worst because of his reaction, and ended up getting fired because of it.

I'll tell you this though, if he cheats on his current wife, Beth Phoenix, there's a pretty good chance that she'd whoop his ass.

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Whoa this movie is batshit crazy. Any feel a opportunity was missed with Kelsey Grammer’s character?  When he is first introduced he as a henchman pulls up a blank canvas behind Manbun, and soon after makes a threat to make a new painting with his brains.  How much more threatening  would it have been if we saw few of these paintings as Manbun walked in? 
 

Side-note, I’m only twenty minutes in but this reminds me of a worse version of Confidence, which hasn’t held up well overtime, but still has its charm. 

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Question:

Did anyone else get the feeling that Andy Lawrence was going to betray the team out of anger for being relegated to tech support on the mission? They really linger on him being pissed about it and then have Edge make Tom Jane his backup plan "man on the ground." With how flippant the character was acting on the ground I was waiting for there to be some kind of turn where he's either taken the crypto or informed the House about what was going on in the flight.

Another thing I remembered watching this was how unrecognizable upon first sight Joey Lawrence is without his trademark hairstyle from Blossom or even the more cropped look on Brotherly Love. I took me a solid 90 seconds to recognize it was him in this movie with whatever the hell that hairdo was that he had and in another movie he did, Rest Stop, he was completely bald and I didn't know he was in it until I saw his name in the credits.

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Matthew Lawrence was a charm! Made me forget it was a bad movie with horrible set design, color scheme, and dialog that was written by someone that doesn’t fully understand how humans talk or interact. 

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