Musical Mondays Week 105 Pippin

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

If you want the adult version of The Electric Company, this is it.  We watched

[Cameron H. 23786]

Yeah, my bad. Lol

Honestly, I really like the first song and I liked a lot of the meta stuff, but mostly, this wasn’t very good. With Bob Fosse’s name attached I expected some pretty stellar choreography, but in all but a few cases, it was pretty lackluster.

Also, Pippin, or Pepin the Hunchbacked, was a real person, but also kind of a non-entity. I was really confused as to why he was chosen as the protagonist — especially when it’s pretty much completely factionalized. It literally could have been about anyone. Was that the point of them trying to coax someone up on stage? Maybe...?

All in all, I wouldn’t mind seeing a better version of this, but this version was...not great.

[grudlian. 4725]

Agreed on all accounts. The meta stuff was really interesting but took me by surprise. So, I couldn't fully appreciate it because, by the time it kicked in heavily, I felt I had missed a lot. Cinco said this was better on a second watch and I have to assume he's right.

Ben Vereen though. Amazing.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I also feel like I was oversold on the horniness of the movie.

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

55 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

With Bob Fosse’s name attached I expected some pretty stellar choreography, but in all but a few cases, it was pretty lackluster.

This was what got me. It really didn't feel artistic in any way. It felt very amateurish to me. 

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

The funny part is the composer also wrote Godspell.  It took him 30 years but he had a big hit with Wicked.

[grudlian. 4725]

55 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I also feel like I was oversold on the horniness of the movie.

That one lengthy sex scene was horny. I think a lot of the risque stuff was probably shocking at the time but pretty tame any time after the late 80s.

[Cameron H. 23786]

6 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

The funny part is the composer also wrote Godspell.  It took him 30 years but he had a big hit with Wicked.

Wasn’t this, and Godspell, a hit? I feel like I’ve seen a movie contemporary to when Pippin was on Broadway that referenced it. I want to say Annie Hall, but I don’t think that’s right...

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

19 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

Wasn’t this, and Godspell, a hit? I feel like I’ve seen a movie contemporary to when Pippin was on Broadway that referenced it. I want to say Annie Hall, but I don’t think that’s right...

Yes, they were both big hits.  I haven't seen Godspell but it's on my possibles list.  Fosse won multiple Tonys for Pippin and Ben Vereen won Best Leading Actor.  (Fun fact from Wikipedia: A later Broadway revival had a female playing Ben Vereen's role and she won a Tony for Best Leading Actress.  It's the only time there has been Best Leading Actor and Best Leading Actress wins for the same role.)

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I think this was toned way down, maybe because it was filmed for Canadian television?  This was done 9 years after the original premiered on Broadway.

[GrahamS. 803]

This was actually way more watchable than I thought it would be, perhaps because I viewed it through a WTF lens and it felt like a wacky/tacky Vegas stage musical (PARTICULARLY the song from the grandma with the HUGE mic). I did like the meta part because it at least somewhat explained why Pippin was such a douche. Ben Vereen was great. William Katt (unfortunately) seemed like a blond surfer dude. But I made it through the whole thing (with a few surreptitious fast-forwards), which was a pleasant surprise.

This is the first Bob Fosse production that I’ve ever seen (other than the rapidly edited Chicago). The choreography was...underwhelming and the stage show looked like it was shot in someone’s walk-in closet and the audience looked like mannequins.

truly random thought: Love to see a David Lynch interpretation of this.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

2 hours ago, GrahamS. said:

This was actually way more watchable than I thought it would be, perhaps because I viewed it through a WTF lens and it felt like a wacky/tacky Vegas stage musical (PARTICULARLY the song from the grandma with the HUGE mic). I did like the meta part because it at least somewhat explained why Pippin was such a douche. Ben Vereen was great. William Katt (unfortunately) seemed like a blond surfer dude. But I made it through the whole thing (with a few surreptitious fast-forwards), which was a pleasant surprise.

This is the first Bob Fosse production that I’ve ever seen (other than the rapidly edited Chicago). The choreography was...underwhelming and the stage show looked like it was shot in someone’s walk-in closet and the audience looked like mannequins.

truly random thought: Love to see a David Lynch interpretation of this.

I went to a Second City Toronto show in 1987.  One of the skits was David Cronenberg's version of Anne of Green Gables.  Anne was a space alien who could kill people with a zap from her pointed finger.  Mike Myers played Anne.

[GrahamS. 803]

6 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

Also, Pippin, or Pepin the Hunchbacked, was a real person, but also kind of a non-entity. I was really confused as to why he was chosen as the protagonist — especially when it’s pretty much completely factionalized. It literally could have been about anyone. Was that the point of them trying to coax someone up on stage? Maybe...?

Another thing I thought was really weird in the play was its references to casualties in WWI and WWII. I thought it might be building up to some sort of metaphor for Vietnam or the 60s but it never evolved into anything other than a  vague muddle of cultural stuff. Perhaps if I saw this play in 1972, I would say “Yes! This captures the counterculture perfectly! jazz hands!”

Watching it now as a time capsule from 1980, my reaction is “huh?????” Jazz hands!

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

7 minutes ago, GrahamS. said:

Another thing I thought was really weird in the play was its references to casualties in WWI and WWII. I thought it might be building up to some sort of metaphor for Vietnam or the 60s but it never evolved into anything other than a  vague muddle of cultural stuff. Perhaps if I saw this play in 1972, I would say “Yes! This captures the counterculture perfectly! jazz hands!”

Watching it now as a time capsule from 1980, my reaction is “huh?????” Jazz hands!

[Cameron H. 23786]

So, I've been trying to figure out what this movie is actually about. One theory I've had is that it's about white male mediocrity. Pippin himself bemoans his less than "extraordinary" existence and how he wants to do more, but he, by his own admission, kind of sucks at all of it. Ultimately, The Lead Player tells him that the best thing he can do is die in a spectacular fashion -- and he ends up fucking that up too. 

At least, that's what I got out of it.

Of course there was a line cut from the performance. At the end, when asked how he's feeling, Pippin is supposed to reply, "Trapped, which isn't bad for a Musical Comedy." Fosse wanted that line to be "Trapped, but happy, which isn't bad for a Musical Comedy." Honestly, I like how this performance ended as it leaves his response ambiguous. However, I also like Fosse's rewrite since, if I'm right about white male mediocrity, it ends with him dissatisfied, but accepting his limitations.   

 

[GrahamS. 803]

4 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

So, I've been trying to figure out what this movie is actually about. One theory I've had is that it's about white male mediocrity. Pippin himself bemoans his less than "extraordinary" existence and how he wants to do more, but he, by his own admission, kind of sucks at all of it. Ultimately, The Lead Player tells him that the best thing he can do is die in a spectacular fashion -- and he ends up fucking that up too. 

At least, that's what I got out of it.

Of course there was a line cut from the performance. At the end, when asked how he's feeling, Pippin is supposed to reply, "Trapped, which isn't bad for a Musical Comedy." Fosse wanted that line to be "Trapped, but happy, which isn't bad for a Musical Comedy." Honestly, I like how this performance ended as it leaves his response ambiguous. However, I also like Fosse's rewrite since, if I'm right about white male mediocrity, it ends with him dissatisfied, but excepting his limitations.   

 

This is the interpretation I had, which is an intriguing one, especially if the material were modernized and made less cheesy. I did like the ending. It seemed like it took away his final number (which I didn’t mind AT ALL).

One essential rewrite would be for the play to stop referring to itself as a comedy when it’s not that funny.

[Cam Bert 8145]

I think I was underwhelmed as well but the movie did have a certain charm and when it was done I appreciate a lot of what they did do.

I'm a sucker for movies about people making movies. There is something about that "let's put on a show" vibe that is just charming to me. This had some of that. The fact that two of the performances are labeled in the credits as "guest stars" rather than just the typical "and with" struck me as odd but then when Martha Raye came on as Berthe and was very hammy but in that "You know me, I'm just having fun" way I thought "Wow, she IS a special guest star." It's like in Oh Hello! when they'd interview different people each show I felt like they could have done that with her part and it would be like a special guest star. Also calling them a guest star seemed to fit with the feel and the humor. Speaking of the humor while inconsistent what was there worked for me. I find the meta stuff pretty funny and Charlemagne seems like a fun role. Overall I have no doubt this is something that is a lot more fun live, but I can see why this was a hit. Would I watch this again? Probably not, but would I watch a production of Pippin? Yes for sure.

[Cam Bert 8145]

13 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

So, I've been trying to figure out what this movie is actually about. One theory I've had is that it's about white male mediocrity. Pippin himself bemoans his less than "extraordinary" existence and how he wants to do more, but he, by his own admission, kind of sucks at all of it. Ultimately, The Lead Player tells him that the best thing he can do is die in a spectacular fashion -- and he ends up fucking that up too. 

At least, that's what I got out of it.

Of course there was a line cut from the performance. At the end, when asked how he's feeling, Pippin is supposed to reply, "Trapped, which isn't bad for a Musical Comedy." Fosse wanted that line to be "Trapped, but happy, which isn't bad for a Musical Comedy." Honestly, I like how this performance ended as it leaves his response ambiguous. However, I also like Fosse's rewrite since, if I'm right about white male mediocrity, it ends with him dissatisfied, but accepting his limitations.   

 

I buy this. 

What struck me though is how just unhappy and unfulfilled he was by everything. Yet he constantly had the Leading Player in his ear telling him "Hey, you know what would satisfy you? Do this." He does everything he is told to do, and yet none of it brings him fulfillment. It's when he finally rejects the Leading Player's advice and is done with him that he is finally happy. Maybe I was inspired by the hippie-ish feel of a lot of this but I took this as a slight anti-consumerism kind of stance. You are constantly being told by people and media that this will make you happy and make you complete yet a lot of those things are surface level things that don't actually do any of that. It's only once you're true to yourself that you can find happiness even if that means not being or having the best.

[tomspanks 9039]

 

On 11/16/2020 at 9:13 AM, Cameron H. said:

I also feel like I was oversold on the horniness of the movie.

Honestly it was a huge letdown.  

ETA: Also, wasn't it kind of weird how the last song was sung over a freeze screen?