JosephDaley

I feel like I'm in the insurgent minority among the listenership of the show who proudly and adamantly advocates for more diverse types of films being considered for Canonization, at least when I'm not puffing up my chest and being an all around blowhard over the acceptance of genre filmmaking, and in general I do tend to be overly impassioned when defending the things that I love. But, many listeners in the recent battle and discussion of/for the prospective induction and Canonization of Stuart Gordon's 'Re-Animator' (Proudly and declaratively still a YES) has helped me to see that we have a lot of ground yet to cover with The Canon, and one of those areas that has yet to really be trudged through is World Cinema. A moment ago I put forward and suggested a battle royale between two perennial classics from Chinese auteur Wong Kar-wai, and now I'd like to submit another suggestion: Krzysztof Kieslowski and his crowning cinematic achievement, 'Three Colors'. I feel like I'm apart of an even slimmer minority of folks who've taken the journey through the cinema of Kieslowski, and I find that to be a downright shame. Like Wong Kar-wai, Kieslowski is one of the finest filmmakers in film history, and he deserves to be Canonized. No better way to do that than to take a look at his finest cinematic achievement.

I love this movie, but I agree. Has to be a Vs. If we're putting Bogie up, we gotta make it hurt. Casablanca vs. Sabrina. Bring on the pain.

Also... Blind Chance.... Such an unnerving experience right at first, but I do really love that movie too. Also also... Kurosawa episode is a must, I don't think that would be a slam dunk though. If it were Seven Samurai, I think it would be by reputation alone, but I've noticed that a lot of my friends who love movies and the group that I manage out here in the Midwest, which is at something like a 107 members, with like 36-42 continually active members, really haven't explored Kurosawa beyond Seven Samurai or The Hidden Fortress. I just feel like Devin and Amy won't get to Seven Samurai until after they do an episode with one of Kurosawa's non-Jidaigekis. Or am I crazy?! Also, Kenji Mizuguchi episode would be lovely. I know everyone would love to put forward Ugetsu, but I'd love to hear them spar it out over one of his lesser known films like Utamaro and His Five Women

I have to admit.... It would turn into Red versus Blue, but White is the film I return to more and more. It's the fun one, and Red is the one that feels the most lush and sexual. Blue just leaves me so devastated, but it is probably the slam dunk if there ever was one. I've seen the Short Film expansions but not every episode of the series proper. I adore Short Film About Love. Killing, I'm less warm too, but I still greatly respect it. Perhaps a single episode for Kieslowski with just one film to talk about would be better for people who aren't familiar... Perhaps like the Satyajit Ray episode? Which movie if you did only one? To mirror the Apu Trilogy, we could do Blue? That would be a slam dunk, personally I want all Three. I would never let in just Fellowship of the Ring, for instance.

I voted for 'There Will Be Blood', and I would like to preface this vote by saying that I hated casting it. Like Devin, 'Boogie Nights' was a formative experience for me... and it's in my own personal Canon, and I want it in this Canon. 'Boogie Nights' was the first movie my friend Natalie and I watched together, before we dated and fell in love... and eventually broke up of course. But it was a magical experience in a unruly period of my life. Suffice it to say, it has remained an integral part of my identity as a filmgoer and cinephile, and while I agree with Amy, that Magnolia is probably my favorite of his early period, 'There Will Be Blood' is his 'Citizen Kane', his 'Ugetsu', or his 'Bicycle Thieves'. He was trying to make a Herculean masterpiece that would go on to be taught in film classes, and his ambition did not exceed his grasp. There is no 'Boogie Nights' without 'Hard Eight/Sydney' and Martin Scorsese, but 'There Will Be Blood' is a different beast entirely. It's him whole cloth (so is 'Boogie Nights', but he smuggled the techniques from other filmmakers more liberally to essentially make a Altman/Scorsese pastiche that expands upon the cinematic vernacular he toyed with in his other Scorsese picture, the aforementioned 'Hard Eight/Sydney'). My brain is overriding my heart on this one, and 'There Will Be Blood' deserves that vote.

This isn't even fair.

What would be more painful than having to choose between the two greatest films from one of China's greatest auteurs? Perhaps a little background concerning the two films in question might be necessary to preamble this suggestion: Wong Kar-wai's 'Chungking Express' is by and large a watershed film of the 1990's and it established WKW as a seminal voice in World Cinema, and Sight & Sound listed 'In The Mood for Love' as the 24th Greatest Film ever made during their 2012 industry poll (making 'In the Mood for Love' the highest ranked film since 1980 and the sixth highest from a living director)- 'Chungking Express' is a much looser and much more ethereal tone poem about missed connections, breathed to life by effortless cool and canned pineapple, whereas 'In the Mood for Love' is an emotionally savage and heartbreaking car crash of a love story that unmoors the RomCom tropes that act as it's place setting. Both are sumptuous examples of the woefully underrepresented genre, Romance, and both are deserving of Canonization and being immortalized by The Canon Eternal... So let's pit these two colossal films of Asian Cinema against one another and see who gets Canonized! Right off the bat, I'd just like to suggest that The Canon continue to branch out into World Cinema, and I personally believe in the large and inclusive Canon that doesn't cowtail to downloads or hits as a metric for determining which movies get brought forward for consideration. I know that sounds like a not-so-subtle dig at Devin's oft-stated reasoning that usually goes into a planning an episode and choosing a film... and to some degree I suppose it is... But at this point in The Canon, I have to believe that the show has garnered enough cache with our fellow listeners to warrant breaking into Chinese or Japanese cinema, we've discussed and represented the South Korean New Wave with Park Chan-wook's 'Oldboy', but perhaps it's time to consider widening that representation to include filmmaking all across Asia? Wong Kar-wai is perhaps one of the greatest filmmakers in the world alive today, period. His work in these two films alone apotheosizes the breadth of his entire career and represents the very best that he's capable of, and in my unwarranted opinion, no Canon can be considered representative of the greatest films in film history without at least having a discussion of Wong Kar-wai at some point. If anyone has a better WKW suggestion, I'd love to hear it?! 'Days of Being Wild' and the Chinese cut for 'The Grandmaster both seem like really good contenders for Canonization as well, though I still stand by original suggestions!

I wasn't going to write a reply, and then I began to peruse through the thread to just get a lay of the land, and where everyone seems to be coming from, and it's by and large anchored by this ignorantly overstuffed idea that we have enough genre fare like 'Re-Animator' in The Canon, and let's be very clear: F-U-C-K/T-H-A-T/N-O-I-S-E. Only genre film is treated so disdainfully, and so belligerently when we're talking about Canonization... and yet speaking as someone who holds films like 'Re-Animator' and 'Videodrome' to the same standard as films like 'The Last Temptation of Christ' or 'Taxi Driver', or 'Seven Samurai', or '8 1/2', I'm supposed to just be all like: "Well, We got the prerequisite horror slot filled y'all... We'll just have to settle for that." instead of approaching each film separate and on its own terms? Who gives a shit if 'Evil Dead II' made it in the Canon already? This isn't a damn Vs. episode where that's even a legitimate consideration, instead it's an excuse to say: "sorry, but 'Re-Animator', you're belong to the unwashed and we don't like you here." 'Evil Dead II' is in the Canon because it's one of the greatest films of all time, and 'Re-Animator' is every bit as deserving of that same consideration and seeing as how they're vastly different films thematically and both equalling deserving to discuss in the context and framework of Canonization, how about you use a real and substantive argument against it? Amy essentially made the comparison that Devin was making a Trump vote with this movie, but than her own position was as vapid and illegitimate of consideration as any bring that has stumbled out of Trump's ignorant mouth in the last 14 months. What's going to happen when we get to 'Eyes Without a Face' or 'Dead Ringers'? What's going to happen when we get to filmmaker's like Nagisa Oshima? I guess we're just never going to consider a film like 'In the Realm of the Senses' or 'Empire of Passion' for Canonization because they're basically Erotica, which is just for the unwashed #AmyNicholstiltskin

As far as I'm aware, and honestly I haven't looked into it for like 6-7 years, but he did legitimately purchase the rights to Perfect Blue specifically for the bathtub shot for Requiem for a Dream, and that's been a very well established and discussed point of contention against Black Swan, which he denies any influence from but acknowledges in the same breath- for now almost a decade. And I don't think that's a fair assessment at all, Cannibal Holocaust is a puerile and disgusting movie, and yet that is somehow more suitable for the Canon? I don't think so.

I've given it incredible consideration, and there's absolutely a ton of movies I'd personally like to qualify, so I've compiled a list of features I'd love to see considered, in the order of the year of release so as not to betray my preference ;)/> -Black Swan -The Social Network -A Prophet -Drive -13 Assassins -Bullhead -Hugo -Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives -The Master -Holy Motors -Pieta -Kill List -Upstream Color -Pacific Rim -The Hunt -Sightseers -The Babadook -Started Up -Snowpiercer -The Tale of Princess Kaguya -The Duke of Burgundy -A Most Violent Year -Felt -Ex Machina

I say yes, explicitly to get as many John Carpenter movies in this damn Canon as possible, of course... I'm not being serious. I actually just truly believe this is a foundational movie for any genre fan, and it's so lovable and deserving of consideration. It's not exactly related, but has anyone listened to The Next Picture Show series of podcasts where they talked about Assault on Precinct 13 and Green Room? Another John Carpenter film that deserves to be in The Canon.

Ffffuuuuug. I knew Disney had that streaming deal, but that deal doesn't actually go in effect until late this year/early next year doesn't it?

How has nobody commented and supported this suggestion? Easily Aronofsky at his most visionary. This movie meant so much to me while one of my Guardians was in a chemically induced coma and was fading. When she passed, I rewatched it over and over again for an entire summer. Multiple times a day sometimes (although Luke Greenfield's The Girl Next Door also was in heavy rotation... Puberty and all) but my love for this movie has only endured. It's such a brilliant piece of cinema. Although I made a post earlier this evening concerning Perfect Blue, highlighting how Aronofsky basically strip mined Satoshi Kon's work to help define his two most readily seen movies, Requiem for a Dream and Black Swan, in the process... I love Aronofksy and believe he should and will be in The Canon, and The Fountain is perhaps for me the most true Canon "submission" from him.

I'd be remiss if I didn't openly admit that I want Seven Samurai in The Canon first and foremost, but Kurasowa needs to be in The Canon period, and Ikiru is not a lesser film. I'd also highly recommend Drunken Angel and The Bad Sleep Well. Also, let's get Ran in there as well? Maybe do a XXL Canon episode and do a big three way vs. between three of his Samurai films? PS Am I the only one who'd openly vote for something like Hanzo the Razor, or The Sword of Doom?!? PSS The Sword of Doom is pretty much a Canon movie. Let's just get that in the Canon already?!

Please no. If we're going to get John C. Reilly into The Canon Eternal, Could we start with Hard Eight/Sydney?

*Also I know. His death was so tragic. It came completely out of nowhere for me. And he was in the middle of working on The Dreaming Machine, which I've lost faith in ever seeing completed honestly. **PPS I think you're absolutely right. But what directors aren't influenced by Hitchcock and Kubrick? I feel like that's such a foundational level of film study for any cinephile, let alone filmmaker. For me it's obviously more noticeable that Nolan's ambition is steeped in attempting to emulate those filmmakers, and doing his own thing and allowing his vision to come through filtered by their techniques... But Kubrick and Hitchcock have been adored and talked about to death. By all of us, and I think Satoshi Kon's contribution to what ultimately became both Black Swan and Inception is incredibly large and important enough to discuss his influence just as much theirs? Idk if that came across the way I intend it to?!

To the first point, Aronofsky did purchase the adaptation rights (from what I remember) to Perfect Blue, specifically because he wanted to use actual shots from the film in Requiem for a Dream, but then he later basically remade Perfect Blue as Black Swan, and lifted many of the shots he had previously already used for Requiem again in that film, not even talking about the storytelling similarities (though that's really too general of a criticism) so I definitely concede that it isn't really an issue since he openly acknowledges the influence that Kon's films specifically have had on him as a storyteller. But Nolan is the one that I find actually egregious. I don't think I've ever listened to him talk about Satoshi Kon, and yet most of the principal and iconic visuals from Inception are shot for shot lifts cribbed from Paprika. I agree that Paprika isn't a perfect film narratively, but I think it's easily worthy of Canon discussion considering the movie that was spawned from it was one of the first movies discussed for Canonicity. I also freely admit to a personal bias, or crusade or what have you... I cannot stand Devin's attitude towards anime in general. I absolutely believe that Perfect Blue deserves to be in The Canon Eternal, and that Paprika could easily be in as well. I also think that Akira is absolutely a slam dunk for The Canon. Although I also really want to see something from Ralph Bakshi go up too... Ughh.

I know this is last minute, but has anyone attempted to look on CrunchyRoll? It's an Anime specific streaming platform

Here's a radical notion--- can we induct a jidaigeki into The Canon already? And why not start with one of the most radical and counter-populist samurai pictures ever?! The Sword of Doom is one of the bleakest and most badass Samurai dramas ever made- period. It belongs in The Canon Eternal, and I think it would be D-O-P-E to usher in some more foreign masterworks into The Canon

Can we put forward Black Swan *just* to hear Devin begrudgingly acknowledge how much Aronofsky lifted from Satoshi Kon (and obviously The Archers & Hitchcock) for Black Swan? It would make my year just to hear Devin acknowledge that while he doesn't particularly like anime or consider anime canon worthy (he's just as wrong about anime as Amy is about Se7en btw) two of the greatest contemporary filmmakers alive stole from Satoshi Kon explicitly (the other of course being Nolan- who literally lifted all of his visual ideas for Inception from Kon's Paprika)

Dear Amy, You are wrong, and 'Se7en' is one of the greatest films of the contemporary era, and I would wager it stands just as well and just as tall as any of Hitchcock's greats. I will listen to and support your wrong opinions from here to MovieFights--- but sometimes I just can't help but be flabbergasted beyond measure when you so bravely go full Armond White on a movie, and while I appreciate your reticence to sample Fincher's world and join the collective nod... this is really and truly that one time when you really should. Loyal listener from Rockford, IL-- PS I still love your opinions. I just couldn't have found myself farther from your take on this one.