Cakebug Tranch

I came inches from picking The Last Five Years this time around, but I love the stage musical so much and I have heard the film isn't as effective (full disclosure: I haven't seen it yet). I'm not convinced that the way that Jamie and Kathy grow apart over their five years matches the way that Seb and Mia do: the cathartic "I'll always love you" moment before Mia goes to Paris is one of my favorite parts. I can see the connection in terms of rising success, but Jamie's a publishing superstar and Kathy's a failed actress, so it's a tenuous connection, I'd say.

I realized as I was writing it that it was a bit of a jerk thing to say. My main point was that it's not enough to live on in addition to saving enough money to establish a successful jazz club. My wife and I make a pretty good combined living as teachers and we still only just cover our bills.

So, did anyone like this movie?

If he was paid $1000 a week (plus a cut of merch) and did that every single week up to and including the day that Mia walked into his club, that's still only $250,000, which over five years is a fairly mediocre middle class living. And that's also assuming he isn't spending money on things like rent and gas and food. How much could he really be putting away? I'd buy it that he had enough for the club if he was getting $10K a week, but $250K over five years (plus merch, less living expenses) means there's no way he has the scratch. I would be on board with John Legend partnering, though.

I did co-op/semi-pro theatre for years as I came up in my career, and never ever did I meet a producer who booked a show into a space far too big for the gig. If anything, there was less space, not more. And a one-off show? Come on, man. Why not a run of 3-4? (and yeah, I know she maybe can't afford a longer run, but why use such a big space? use a black box, co-opt a space, improvise!) A single show on a Thursday night with grandiose poster design but no publicity? And she hangs a white sign on one seat saying 'RESERVED' which will guarantee that with light spill she's going to be staring at the empty Seb seat all night. Seriously, no one's in the audience except her old flatmates but also the casting director for a giant Hollywood film. She knows no one's out there. You're not fooling anyone, Mia.

Maybe because deep in her heart of hearts she knows that Seb is the WORST (you can still love someone who's the worst, come on, we all have at one point or another) and just assumes he's being a smug snob as usual. She says right away that she hates jazz, but never says what she DOES like. I think she's a closet Anthrax fan, personally.

I took it as her seeing him at the beginning playing his synth and knowing that although it's not his kind of music, at least he's playing for a crowd, then you add John Legend singing without the band, and it's still jazz-adjacent, but as soon as you add the dancing team and the bells and whistles, she sees that he hasn't just sold out a bit, but that this is so far overboard that she knows this is going to make him miserable. I also didn't think she liked the music much (regardless of what she says later)

I took Seb's position on John Legend as seeing him as 'the worst' because he's playing the music he wants to play, and he's getting paid for it, which makes him a sellout. Clearly there's some baggage from when they were at music school/university together, and it comes down on the matter of the purity of music. It's interesting that Seb is the jazz traditionalist while JL is the innovator, so not only is he 'selling out' but he's selling out the tradition that Seb describes as part of JL's own heritage. It's interesting, though, in that in an indirect way, JL says that Seb is the worst too - essentially that his last keyboardist wasn't as talented as Seb, but Seb is a pain in the ass. Surely JL spends a little time at home with his fiancee/wife talking about how his new keyboardist is the worst too. Everyone's perception is based on their bias and worldview, and because they clash, they consider one another the worst. Seb, however, IS the worst. At that photo shoot ("bite yer lip boy") on the ONLY night of his girlfriend's one-woman show, not only does Seb not say "do you think I can skip it? there's like, 34 members of this band and we're just miming", but he doesn't look at his watch or say "dude, I was here for the wide shots, can I please go now?" or "hey, I'm double-booked, can you snap a few of me and then I'll split?" Both times I've seen it I was wishing Seb would bust out of the photo shoot and at least catch SOME OF HER SHOW. Man, the fantasy 'what if' ballet made me cry both times I've seen this movie because it's such a document of what their lives would have been like IF SEB STOPPED BEING SUCH A SHITHEAD. Everything else happens in exactly the same way - she still goes to Paris, becomes a star, they go to the club (I guess it's not called 'Seb's' now - I would like to propose it's called 'Shades's' and the drummer from the Oneders is up on the stage), and their lives are better, all if he didn't blow her off in the club, go on tour, etc etc etc. I never hated Seb until today. Damn you guys.

Oh yes: can I also mention right off the top how much I fucking love the title of this movie? It works on so many levels: the nickname for LA, the song and dance aspect (literally singing 'la la'), and the themes of delusion and denial, of a town where everyone's off in 'la la land' pursuing this unlikely dream. Which brings me to the question: why is the coffee shop manager so unsympathetic to a barista that has an audition? YOU ARE IN LA. ON THE WARNER BROS. LOT. SURELY THIS IS NOT THE ONLY ASPIRING ACTOR YOU EMPLOY. I've been an actor asking for time off for auditions before, but it's nearly always been in towns with a far less established theatre industry, so you're generally convincing someone who has never heard of theatre that what you're doing is a real thing. Or, you work in a place where the flexibility is part of the point (like a coffee shop) or a place connected to the industry (like a box office or as an usher, or, I don't know, on a major studio lot), to maximise sympathy... What's the manager's story? Is she an embittered failed actor? I liked that she wasn't the manager in the flash-forward when Mia is a big star, because that would have complicated that moment. So where is she? (Answer: she's nowhere, she's a fictional character played by an actress who was on set for three hours, dummy)

Self-congratulatory post coming up: I wasn't sure I had made the right choice in picking this film, because I figured everyone had seen it and everyone was pretty much okay with it it, and it's always nice to see something new (and/or easy to tear down). Then I watched it again and was so pleased with myself, because like we've said, there's SO much to love and SO much to question. So, I'm feeling very happy about my pick, even more so after the two excellent posts immediately above me that says we'll have plenty to talk about this week. I'm running out now so I'll dip back in later, but I just wanted to express my admiration for the debate so far. Also, in that out-take poster that Cam posted (I love how you always use the less common version), Seb and Mia don't kiss in that scene - THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THAT SCENE... "What a waste of a lovely night..." In fact, it shows Seb in his coat ("it's wool") that he has taken off by the time they dance, and Mia in her heels that she takes off before their big soft-shoe. Shenanigans!

A very good question. Does Daltrey really perform 'Fiddle About' in concert? I can't imagine how that would go over.

dot com?

Just to add to the list of anachronisms, along with the Wizard of Oz screening and the presence of Godzilla, is Sky Captain's plane of choice, which is based on a Kittyhawk P-40N. As noted on IMDb: Sky Captain flies a late-model P-40, the six gun version of the P-40N. However, his has a few "Hollywoodifications": - The rear decking behind the pilot's seat, and the fuselage fuel tank under it, were removed in order to add a second seat (for Polly). This was actually done to some real P-40s for flight instruction. - The pop-open bays for the cable launcher and magnet bombs are right in the middle of the centerline fuel tank (which fills the interior of the wing between the main wheel wells). - The small underwater engines under the horizontal stabilizers would retract right into the tail wheel gear well, and into each other. - When going into underwater mode, the ostensibly solid-metal propeller blades collapse down into the prop spinner, and into a different section of space-time. The real plane's prop spinner is a shell that goes around the collars and gearing of the prop hub assembly. - Roughly 5000 horsepower appears to have been added to the 1200hp Allison engine. Unfortunately, the P-40N, a variant on the P-40 from 1938, did not appear until 1943. So, Sky Captain's plane is four years too early if it's going to be flown on the same night that The Wizard of Oz plays at Radio City Music Hall. Incidentally, I couldn't find any evidence of Radio City screening that film in 1939: while it was a prestige first-run cinema in the 1930's and 1940's, I don't think Wizard played there. Of course, this leads us to the question about whether in this Sky Captain world whether the Second World War is actually happening at the time: as mentioned in the podcast, Sky Captain's planes would be well used in Europe, but in a pre-Pearl Harbor America, they are still neutral. But there is no mention of the difficulty of navigating around the world during wartime, no mention of Nazis, no concern about being caught up in the conflict. Polly calls the 1914-1918 conflict 'World War One', which is only possible if you have a 'World War Two' - prior to WW2 the first war was usually called 'The Great War'. So there must be a war going on. And why is Sky Captain, a British national (and arguably a hugely skilled warrior) hanging out in neutral America? Is he a draft dodger? Ultimately, Finally, are there any aerodynamics specialists around who can talk about how ridiculous the flapping enemy planes are? Why on earth would the wings need to flap if there are engines? This feels incredibly inefficient.

Wasn't exactly trying to call you out, but I checked letterboxd and was interested to see your low rating - which I thought was a good thing for discussion's sake. I respect your opinion and take on things so was keen to have a less than glowing perspective (since there were lots of 4-5 star reviews from the rest of us!). Glad the pick is landing well! Looking forward to the discussion!

Very sorry about the delay everyone - I had forgotten it was a holiday in the States so was slightly puzzled by how quiet the thread was, and then by the time I got around to thinking about posting again, both my kids were sent home from school with stomach bugs. So, that's what I have to deal with tonight. But enough of that! Time for my pick! I have been thinking a lot about my pick, and had settled on a good shortlist that could have worked in a lot of different ways. One was a couple of beloved concept albums that don't exactly fit to the structure of the discussion (more concerty than performy) and I'm happy to pass on recommendations to anyone who would like them. THEN, I moved on to consider two of my favorite movies of all time, but ultimately shied away because I couldn't quite bear to hear anyone say anything negative about them. (I'm purposely not naming these films in case others pick them in future) I also considered a relatively recent film adaptation of a small musical that I've always loved, but I haven't seen it before. Ultimately, I talked it over with my wife and laid out my candidates, and she immediately made her pick based on what she wanted to see. So, I've made my pick of a movie that we discussed way back before week 1 of Musical Mondays, a couple years ago. At the time, people were asking if we could pick movies that were still in cinemas. And then no one picked it. A few people have pretended to pick it, but then didn't. We've all seen it before, but I want to watch it again (for the first time since the cinema). According to Letterboxd, everyone liked it except Grudlian. And I don't mind this one getting nitpicked at. Guessed what it is yet? Yeah, you know it. We're watching...

Serious food for thought. I mean, a movie with a scene like this is surely worthy of some kind of consideration, right? Better than baked beans... (No, this isn't my pick yet)

I HAD my pick all lined up, but seeing that Jim Sturgess gif now has me in two minds... do I pick what I was going to pick, a crowd-pleaser that we will all have plenty to talk about, or do I go with Across the Universe again? I'll have to ponder it. Thanks for the reminder, CamB!

You saved the best for last! Excellent set of observations.

Surely based on your justification for SUPERman and BATman, then the PUNisher would be a writer for Carrot Top?

I thought Sky Captain's office was a weird addition. Why does a Sky Captain need a Ground Office? For maps and radios? Or is there a lot of paperwork that goes along with being a Sky Captain? And clearly he's there a lot, since he has his name on the door and all. Why doesn't his door say 'Captain Joseph H. Sullivan, "SKY CAPTAIN"'? For that matter, does anyone actually call him "Sky Captain" except for the beat cop on the radio at the beginning? His faithful pet Dex calls him 'Cap', while Polly calls him 'Joe' and Angelina calls him 'Joseph'. 'Sky Captain' might indeed be his superhero name, but anyone who knows him even a little bit doesn't call him that. Even the troubling racial stereotype who craves sausages and helps him in Tibet calls him Joe. With that in mind, I was struck by how little time Sky Captain actually spends in the sky. He's in his plane between the following timestamps: 11.29-16.48 29.40-38.21 41.06-43.52 58.44-1.03.10 1.06.28-1.08.47 1.08.07-1.13.25 (underwater) Out of the entire 104 minute running time, Sky Captain is in his plane or in the air for 23 minutes total. Another 3 minutes is spent underwater (I guess he's Sea Captain then). The rest of the time he's running, spying, punching women, all things that have very little to do with the Sky. How can he really be called Sky Captain when he's only in the sky for a fifth of the movie?

Totally coincidentally - I am catching up on all the eps of HDTGM that I missed over the course of this school year, and just listened to The Jazz Singer this morning. At the end of that episode, when Paul is asking the team whether they would recommend this movie, each of them come up with casting ideas for a potential future reboot. After a bunch of suggestions, Chris Gethard makes the point that the movie couldn't be the same without Laurence Olivier in the main role, to which Paul replied that they should bring Olivier back in CGI, just like in Rogue One. It's spooky how exactly specific this was to Sky Captain: A MOVIE YOU HADN'T EVEN SEEN YET PAUL. Are you some kind of seer?

Don't forget Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next series, which is about as silly and ridiculous and sublimely brilliant as anything that's been written in the last decade or so. Set in Swindon in a parallel 1985 (at least the first book is), everyone travels by zeppelin, watches major league croquet, and has genetically reengineered extinct species as pets.

I am still in several states of shock that Olivier was in this movie. Olivier was a big part of my PhD thesis (which included the chance to examine his personal annotated shooting script for 'Richard III' which is held at the Folger Shakespeare Library in DC) and along with Branagh, I've become very sentimentally attached to him over the years. As such, it was a real surprise to see his likeness in this awful movie: which makes me wonder what on earth his estate was doing giving permission for it. Olivier was well known to be a curmudgeonly old bastard, and famously played Zeus in 'Clash of the Titans' entirely for the paycheck, with no real interest in the product (a lot like another of the Theatrical Knights around the same time, Alec Guinness, who slummed it to play Obi-Wan Kenobi and was vocal about what he thought of the content he was asked to say). I know that Olivier is reputed to have sold the portrait Salvador Dali made of him as Richard III to pay for his grandchildrens' schooling, and I know that Joan Plowright, Larry's widow, played a teacher in 'The Last Action Hero', showing the 'Now Might I Do It Pat' scene to a class full of kids, introducing him as "the man from the Mr Coffee commercials", so he's no stranger to selling out. But THIS? This is mind-boggling to me. They can't have possibly paid enough for his likeness for THIS to be his final film role, could they? ETA: it seems they were pretty up-beat about it at the time: https://www.eonline.com/news/47917/olivier-resurrected-in-sky-captain

I had a FEELING that I'd missed something there: by that point I'm 100% certain I was doing something else so missed all the nuance and detail of that climactic moment. Ah well. But now who deals with thousands of pods of traumatised parachuted animals in non-native environments? I'm glad for the animals' sake that they weren't cooked in the explosion. Yes, the shrinking animals thing was something that was underutilized: did anyone else think of Spy Kids 2?

I'd also like to point out that Totenkopf's name literally translates to KILL HEAD, the most unfortunate villain naming in a long time. I believe it's supposed to properly translate to 'Death's Head', which explains the skull motifs on all of the robots, but I think we can all agree that it's a lot more amusing to have a villain named KILL HEAD. With a name like that, I guess we shouldn't be surprised about the nefarious plan, but was I the only one who felt like the "and also then the earth will be incinerated" plot point was tacked on at the last minute? I feel like if the plan is to take off with animals and jizz vials to travel to NO ONE KNOWS WHERE - essentially Totenkopf is planning to recreate the flashback scene from 'Wall-E' - then no one on earth is harmed aside from having had their stuff stolen and shot into space. The only way to raise the stakes for everyone is to ADR in some dialogue which says "also by the way he's going to kill us too". But there's nothing stated about HOW we are going to all be incinerated: there's no Star-Killer base warming up and getting ready to kill the planet, and there's no countdown in KILL HEAD'S lair that will detonate. We just take it for granted that oh yeah by the way I think he'll kill us all too. How will he incinerate the earth? And why? You're leaving, you're going to the World of Tomorrow (with no humans to populate it, of course: what about THAT?), just wave goodbye and enjoy your retirement, KILL HEAD!