jeffullrich

For old times sake I sat in on this recording. It was glorious. Only topped by sitting in on the first anniversary show and witnessing Bob Ducca's List of Ailments live. Traci was killing me. So proud of Scott for 5 years!

Not sure, sorry I don't know more. May or may not happen.

Hi Everyone, I wanted to share my thoughts on the General Snus ads that ran on The Fogelnest Files and Kevin Pollak's Chat Show last week. I wouldn't say the ads caused a listener backlash - or you would have heard from me sooner - but there have been a few tweets, a few emails and a few general internet comments. I've been thinking about making a statement for a while and have finally decided it is a good idea. I probably should have done it sooner. In case you don't know, General Snus is a smokeless tobacco product. For those of you who were offended by the ads, I share your sentiment and regret that they ran. We canceled the remainder of the campaign, will not be charging General Snus for the ads that did run and have credited each of the shows with the value of the ads that did run on their shows. This is a very important and complicated topic. I'd like to start a conversation about it here. History Since the very first time I sold ads for our shows, I have been a big believer in showing our listeners and hosts respect by working with brands that provide value to a decent sub-set of our listeners and who respect our need to have the ads in the voice of the hosts. An example of how this works well in practice is Bonobos. Bonobos is an online men's clothing line. Their clothes are on the nicer and therefore pricier side. They started advertising on Sklarbro Country and had success. They are a cool brand with a great sense of humor about themselves. They were very willing to work with Randy and Jason on how the spots were delivered. Were half of the show's listeners in the market to buy a $90 pair of pants online? No. But enough were and the people who weren't interested could understand how other members of their tribe, fellow listeners, would be interested. Those kind of ads work and feel good. It doesn't have to be for everyone, but everyone has to feel good about the ad being on the show. That describes most every ad we run. For years we said no to advertisers that I found shady, not even bringing their offers to the hosts. I felt good about that. I hope you as listeners noticed that we weren't running all the ads you heard on other podcasts, only the one's that fit the criteria outlined above. We walked the walk. What's Changed? As some of you know, about a year ago, I started a company called Midroll. It's a company that sells ads for all kinds of podcasts, not just Earwolf. My experience selling ads for Earwolf is what allowed me to start Midroll. Earwolf and Midroll are both owned by a holding company, Midroll Media. In starting Midroll, a few things had to change. For one, I couldn't only accept shows that I myself would listen to. Well I could, but that wasn't the business that I wanted to build. So while there were a few shows that made me say, "Should we really sell ads here?", I ultimately settled on "yes". Earwolf would be where I could exercise my taste, but Midroll was built to support professional podcasters of all kinds, not only the one's that had shows I listened to personally. That was a distinction I made about 6 months ago and I'm happy with my decision. (Side note: I came to that decision while listening to a show that wanted to join Midroll and I was like, "I don't get this. How is this compelling entertainment?" only to realize that many people feel the same way about some Earwolf shows! They are wrong, of course, but they feel that way. It was then I knew that Midroll wasn't supposed to be a curator, that was Earwolf's job.) The second thing that changed was that I needed to add staff to help me run the company. While Earwolf was my baby for a long time and I could be the CEO and do a lot of other jobs, Midroll was a business that would grow very quickly, require technology, money, etc. I needed help. So I brought in some great people. These great people forced my hand (in a good way) as far as the third change... How Was It Decided to Run The General Snus Ads? The third change was that I couldn't treat all the Midroll hosts the way I treated Earwolf hosts. It wasn't my business to play god. They weren't my brands and weren't my shows. The job of Midroll was to present ad opportunities to our podcasters. Period. That meant not saying no on behalf of a podcaster. (Another side note: ALL Midroll (and thus Earwolf) podcasters have 100% veto rights on every single ad. That is a key value we hold. In order to keep podcasting podcasting, and not turn it into radio or other things, the host has to be in charge of how many ads are on the show, what the ads say (generally) and who they are for - they are personal endorsements. I believe as strongly as possible in that and will never violate that belief. Where it went wrong with Jake and Kevin was that they thought we wanted them to do the ads and were surprised and disappointed but felt obligated to go along, while we felt obligated to offer the campaign but were surprised and disappointed they said yes. All that was missing was Mr. Furley. Collectively we have since sorted it out and won't let it happen again.) So when General Snus inquired and I balked, my team pushed back. We discussed the topic for over an hour during an offsite meeting. Their arguments were compelling, logical and correct for our business. The upshot - we should give the podcasters the choice. Here is where I made my big mistake - I should have said, "Ok, we'll give Midroll podcasters the choice. That is our obligation. But I am saying, as CEO of Earwolf, that Earwolf is not interested.". But I didn't say that. Here is why I didn't say that - when you really start to get into this, you can't win. There are plenty of people offended by tobacco ads (myself included), but some people aren't. I used to smoke and I hate promoting it. But is it about me? What about beer? Some people don't like alcohol. Maybe they are an alcoholic (or love one). Should we not do any beer ads? Should I say no to those ads because I don't drink (I also happen to be a recovering alcoholic!)? What about soda ads? Some people blame obesity on soda. Is that as dangerous as General Snus? Are we making money off of the obese with soda ads? What about HBO's Louis CK special? What if it's not funny? How many collective hours of our listeners lives would we be responsible for wasting by watching an unfunny one-hour stand-up special? Could they have had a better life with that hour back? Of course, suggesting that Louis CK could have a bad comedy special is as ridiculous as saying that watching it should be compared to consuming a tobacco product. My point is simply that it gets confusing pretty fast and it's hard to know where to draw the line. During that offsite discussion I made a one big decision - we would bring most offers, including General Snus, to all hosts and let them decide for themselves. But we would NOT bring every offer. We would draw the line with things like lending companies. What's the difference? We assume that everyone knows the risks of tobacco products (and even in the ads we did run, we said we did not endorse their use) but they can chose if they want to do something that puts them at risk. That's on them. But if we tell you about a financial product that turns out to be predatory and you only got involved with it because your favorite and most trusted host told you to, that is on us. We can't expect all of our listeners to understand things like predatory peer to peer lending. It's our job to protect them there. Where Does This Leave Us? I hope you can forgive me. I made a mistake. I should have stood up for Earwolf listeners during that final debate. I won't let it happen again. But I also think that Midroll is right to let podcasters decide. Different strokes. Myself, Scott, the crew and all of our hosts have spent 4 years building trust with our growing group of listeners and I hope this instance of poor judgement doesn't erode that trust. What do you think? I want to hear from you on this important topic. Please share your thoughts below. Thanks for reading.

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the support and you taking the time to share your thoughts. I'm glad that we were able to get in front of this move away from something that didn't feel very good.

No clue. It's just something on the table, no real thought has been put into it or decision made. What are your thoughts?

This was a truly special series and live event. Makes you realize why you do what you do. Big congrats to Andy and Matt for all the hard work and accolades, they deserve them.

They were kind to go easy on me. Fun times.

About to listen. Here goes...

This is a very good point Dan. We used to decide WHO to bring to the hosts and then let them decide. Now we bring them anyone who offers and let them decide. They say yes more than I did.

One of the most exciting things to ever happen.

Well done Seth.

Bruce, you are the best. Thank you for all your support!

Hi All - the forums are a big place and it's hard to always answer all the questions that are basically for me. So I'm starting this one thread that I can stay on top of consistently and make sure I explain what we are doing and why. I love this stuff so don't be shy and I look forward to interacting with everyone. Who's got the first question?

I responded on the other post, here: http://forum.earwolf.com/topic/13813-earwolf-needs-to-stop-giving-up-on-their-podcasts/page__pid__77986

Hi Tim - Let me clarify, at length. Mike Detective - I would love more Mike Detective. Scott (Aukerman) and Neil Campbell are the writers and have been pre-occupied with writing 30 episodes of CBB TV. We all want more Mike Detective but aren't going to get it and thems the breaks. We certainly didn't drop the show. The Reality Show Show - Sean and Hayes came to us and asked if they could do a different show. We said, "You are brilliant, yes, please do." So they now do Hollywood Handbook (not a spinoff, a new show). Again, not dropped. And to say that the new show "will probably get dropped" isn't true. Owen & TJ Read the News - Still a show. It comes out very infrequently. Something to do with Adam McKay working on Anchorman 2. We wish it came out weekly. Again, not dropped. The Wolf Den - I was the host. I have stopped doing the show. I didn't drop my own show, I got too busy to do it regularly. So I stopped. Not dropped. Love, Dad - Dave Koechner came to me (as the other host) and said, "I'm sorry but I'm too busy and about to leave for 4 months to shoot Anchorman 2 (blame Adam McKay) and can't continue to do the show." Once again, I didn't drop my own show, it was the talent not able to continue. Shortwave - Grant said the show just took too much time to do it well and he didn't want to do it poorly. We agreed and parted as friends. We did not drop the show. Affirmation Nation - Seth did the show Monday through Friday. Then, Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Then, he couldn't do it anymore. I've asked several times and each time he politely says he doesn't have time. I miss that show so much. So much. We did not drop it. Gelmania - Brett called me and said they wanted to do something different and independently. I said of course and wished him and Cyrus the best of luck. We are still friends. Glitter in the Garbage - We did the show for one year. It never really developed an audience and the listenership started small and decreased from there. We felt like one year was a good enough time to give the show and I just saw Drew on Thursday. He is lovely and we're still friends. Shots Fired - Again, we did the show for a year. We put a ton of effort and resources into that show. Unfortunately, as good as it is, we just couldn't find it an audience. It's not a typical Earwolf show in that regard. I like Jeff and James and their show so much I may have found it a new home (we'll see). That's the best we can do. And Jeff and James and I are on very, very good terms. Cyber Thug Radio - We couldn't agree on contract terms which happens all over the world every day. No hard feelings. They even came back to do a third episode where they tore me a new one - and it was my idea! We had fun. Totally Laime - I have no idea what you are talking about. After the year was up, I met with Elizabeth and said we'd love to continue putting the show out. And we are. They are welcome for as long as it's valuable to them. Fogelnest Files - Why would you think we are "dropping" it? That's just crazy talk. We just had the episode with Fallon featured on iTunes a few months ago, why would we use up such a valuable promotional tool on a show we are going to stop doing? My point here is that by and large, we don't "drop" shows. Occasionally, yes. It's necessary and sucks. But if you compare us to any other producer, our track record is pretty phenomenal. Unfortunately, it's often the artists who aren't able to continue doing their shows. We will stop doing shows in the future, I'm not saying we won't, but please at least be fair with your accusations. We care very much about each of our shows and never want a single one to end, for any reason.

Hello astute and loyal listeners - you are correct, Gelmania is no longer listed on Earwolf. I wish I could report some sort of sordid drama that resulted in this happening, but that's just not the case. The truth is that Brett and Cyrus have largely operated independently for almost the entire run of the show. They hit it off with each other immediately and because the show was so production heavy and collaborative between them, they did a lot of the work outside of Earwolf. I remember bitching to Cyrus at the time, "We can't afford to spend 20 hours a week on one show!" and him saying, "I'll do most of it on my own time at home." And thank god he did. As time went on, that became more and more the case until Cyrus was just sending us files. Which was totally fine, but we were all a little less connected than at the start. A little while back, I got a call from Brett and he let me know that they were going to start doing something new with Gelmania, hard to even call it a podcast and thought it would be best to do it as it's own thing, that it wouldn't make as much sense for us or them as it used to. I agreed and said we'd help in whatever way we could. We had a good chat and I felt (and still do) good about our role in helping get those two creative geniuses together, but it was time to let them morph into something amazing that I couldn't even fathom. So it's bittersweet that effective today, Earwolf.com is Gelmania-free. It's been a part of us for a long time and I'm sad to see it go. But at the same time, there is great comedy on the internet in places that aren't Earwolf and that's a good thing for everyone. These guys are going to make world changing content and I look forward to watching the ®evolution and supporting however I can. Thank you Brett and Cyrus for giving us a chance to work with you and be associated with some of the most thoughtful, gritty and well produced comedy in podcasting, you'll be missed!

Just catching this now. Will be rectified soon. Epic fail on our part.

I'm taking some time off and started a blog. jeffullrich.com. Check it out and let me know what you think!

A lot of people put a lot of effort into this (you know who you are, thank you!) and I sat in on the session and was laughing the whole time. Big fans of WTF will love this. I'm proud of this work.

I am so proud of everyone - Shariq, Shannon, Gabe, Ele, Lauren, Paul, June and even Jason. Great work! And don't worry, we have ideas for more great features (but give us time)!

That sounds about right. And it is weird how some are excluded entirely and others are listed as guests every ep. Not sure how to fix that.

Thanks. I totally understand. We will have a new website sometime in 2013. I hope it brings you back.

Thank you!

Yeah, Kickpuncher is right. That is what we'd do. It seems too complex to worry about right now. Maybe someday. For the most part, people are good with the ads. The MOST we ever sell is 3 minutes/hour. Compare that to radio which is what, 20 minutes/hour? More? And you'll realize it's not that much. Or think about watching a 30 second ad on a 2 minute video. However you slice and dice it, our content to ad ratio is very high. BUT - You often will hear much more than 3 minutes of ads, even if that is what we sell. Why? Because the hosts want to put the ads in their own words/voice to maintain their integrity and make them interesting to listen do, which makes them longer than the advertiser requires. Which I think is worth it, for the listeners especially.

Hi Bob! You can email ele@earwolf.com and she can help you. Thanks!