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AndyPacheco-Fores

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Posts posted by AndyPacheco-Fores

  4. Posted

    Dude, I completely agree that Matty B is handling this case closed issue rather poorly, but your insistence on using the term 'butthurt' is not helping. There are so many better and less vaguely homophobic/rapey terms you can use.

    Oh damn, I never thought of butthurt having homophobic/rapey connotations, it seems so obvious now I'm embarrassed I didn't see it. I'm sorry I said it, won't be doing that again.

    • Like 1

  7. Posted · Edited by pfchangs

    Wow Matt's really butthurt about Case Closed... and so much for following the Ethicist's advice

     

    EDIT: Was just told that butthurt has homophobic/rapey connotations. I didn't know until now but looking back on it I'm pretty embarrassed I didn't realize it the first time I heard the term. I'm sorry I said it and won't be doing that again.

  8. Posted

     

    Oh, you'd be surprised how scared white people can get just at the thought of being racist. The real difference is that black people's fear is based on legitimate real-life reasons, whereas white people's fear is based on irrational paranoia.

    That's what I mean. Like, viscerally afraid. Like "Is the person saying this going to hurt/kill me?" afraid. It's a much different emotion.

  13. Posted

     

    Except clearly it wasn't clear to you from the robot, since you then typed out the longest post I've ever seen on this forum - which you clearly did want/expect him to read.

     

    Sure, it would have been nice to have a better opponent (Matt was right, he lost the whole thing with his very first point) but Case Closed means case closed.

    Oh I wanted him to read it, sure. But expect? Nah. I was just filing my dissent for the record, Ruth Bader Ginsburg style.

    • Like 3

  18. Posted

    we are regular joes giving our opinions and that leads to improv.

    This episode came out yesterday and already has over 14,000 plays on Soundcloud. Don't act like you're just regular nobodies doing comedy in a little theater, you have a huge platform that affects a lot of people and a responsibility to use it for good. That's the humon thing to do.

     

    I did love the scenes though, good stuff.

    • Like 6

  19. Posted

    So as a preface, I'll say this: Monica Lewinsky has never said she's above criticism or totally innocent or any of that shit. Almost no one is saying that or has ever said it. Every time she talks about the affair she says she deeply regrets it, acknowledges that people were hurt, and generally admits it was a huge mistake. In her speech, she only compares herself to Tyler Clementi to say that a very private part of their lives were made public online in a way that was deeply humiliating to them, and she admits to having periodically contemplated suicide in 1998 at the height of the scandal. Both of them had their sex lives exposed to the world. Monica contemplated suicide, Tyler actually did it. So your characterization of her as acting like she's the same as Tyler Clementi because she's a perfect victim who didn't do anything wrong is straight up bullshit. She's always owned her mistakes, the beef has always been that the punishment vastly outweighs the crime. Even you admit that she got a lot of terrible shit that she didn't deserve.

     

    Now to the main point: when you first brought it up on the podcast you seemed confused about the difference between cyberbullying and criticism, and later on you say Lewinsky doesn't deserve slutshaming but isn't a good spokesperson for cyberbullying. And it's true that she's not a perfect victim. She's not above reproach or totally innocent the way Tyler Clementi was. But the thing is, she is a victim of cyberbullying--slutshaming is a very common form of cyberbullying. And she actually resembles the people who are at the most risk from the worst cyberbullying, its most intense and emotionally damaging forms, much more than Tyler Clementi does.

     

    For a starting reference, Lewinsky's fourth tweet links to a Pew research project about who experiences online harassment. It finds that young women ages 18-24 are more than twice as likely as men in the same age group to be sexually harassed online, and almost four times as likely to be stalked. The study doesn't mention slutshaming but I think it's reasonable to infer that it figures heavily into those numbers. Slutshaming is just much more common than outing or gayshaming, it affects more people. And Monica Lewinsky's been getting slutshamed online for longer and at a higher volume than maybe anyone in the internet's short history.

     

    But now for the really important part: not everyone who gets cyberbullied is a perfect victim. A lot of them are very imperfect. To wit, this blog where people submit pictures and stories about military wives and girlfriends who submitters claim cheated on their partners, Make Them Famous (NSFW - here and here). Take a look at this Jezebel article about it if you can't stomach the primary source. Sometimes they even include personal information like names or where they live, which puts those women at risk for the worst end of cyberbullying--sexual harassment, physical threats, and stalking. It was originally a Facebook page but it got shut down (it's back). We all agree that cheating is wrong, especially so when your partner is overseas fighting a war. But this site is textbook cyberbullying, their stated goal is to expose and abuse these women. You admit that Lewinsky doesn't deserve slutshaming. These women don't either. But if people only associate cyberbullying with what happened to Tyler Clementi, then it's easier for them to deny that what happens to imperfect victims like Lewinsky is cyberbullying. They just think she's getting what she deserves, or she's asked for it. I've definitely been guilty of that in the past. You, Matt, are dangerously close to it with this. If it wasn't for your opening disclaimer in today's Case Closed, I'd say without a doubt that's what you're doing.

     

    Which brings me to another point. In today's Case Closed you compare the Lewinsky scandal with a hypothetical same situation but with people you know, your friends. But that's a terrible comparison--you don't know Monica Lewinsky. You, Matt, may be family friends with the Clintons, but the vast majority of people don't personally know anyone involved. More importantly, they don't know you. The abusers have all the power in that situation. We all know all these details about Lewinsky's relationship with Clinton, but she doesn't even know our names. She's accountable to us, but we're not accountable to her. With cyberbullying you often can't verify the identity of the person harassing you--even if you do know them personally, online they're just a username. It could be anyone--your coworker, your closest friend, your own mother. Can you imagine what that's like?

     

    Just a quick note on empathy: what's so difficult about having empathy for two women who were wronged in different ways? A lot of people have no trouble hating both Monica and Hillary, as you'll see later on in the primary research. No one's saying you should feel the same level of empathy for Lewinsky that you do for Hillary, even I side with Hillary much more than Lewinsky. It just seems a little petty and mean to have absolutely no empathy for Lewinsky just because you like Hillary.

     

    Ok, now for my final thing: the primary research. When you first brought it up in the IQ of a Corpse episode you asked what the difference was between bullying and criticism. To try and find some examples to show you, I went to the @replies to Lewinsky's fourth tweet, the one that linked to the Pew study, and to the YouTube comments on

    . I tried just searching her name on Twitter but there were too many reposts of the link to the speech to sift through, and the Ladies Man sketch is on Yahoo, which doesn't allow comments on its videos. Here's what I found, and you can tell me whether you think these are bullying or criticism, and try to justify why she shouldn't say she's a victim of cyberbullying or use her inescapable fame to raise awareness and speak out against it.

     

    Tweet replies:

    • @stevebaze: you misspelled "Attention seeking whore". #whore
    • @RealyRyanSipple: When Cock Suckers Complain yet brag about sucking cock and wonder why people make fun of them.
    • @firemunky: Shut your fat hole & make shitty purses where no one can hear you.
    • @akaScramz: The only reason you're famous is because you were the first fat girl who didn't swallow. Bill should've held your head down
    • @akaOV_: I can't believe that whore shows her face on Twitter. She knew he was married. Shameful.

    Twitter was extremely tame compared to the YouTube comments. Now for some perspective on these--when I went through them, there were about 650 comments on the video in total. From these, I collected 134 screenshots of negative comments. Many of these screenshots contain 2 or more comments so I estimate the actual number of negative comments was somewhere between 150 and 200, basically between a 1/4 and 1/3 of all the comments. I was pleasantly surprised by how many positive comments there were--to be honest, I expected the ratio to be a lot worse. But I think that's part of why she chose cyberbullying as her angle, it positions her so that people who care about cyberbullying might look at her in a new light and be more inclined to defend her. It certainly worked on me. As of this posting, there are now 1,201 comments on the video, with 464,729 views, 1,392 likes, and 209 dislikes.

     

     

    Anyway, here are the worst of the bunch. There were several repeat offenders, which follows a commonly observed pattern of a small but vocal group of abusers drowning out more moderate, lenient, and supportive voices. Fair warning, these have incredibly foul, sexist, graphic language and reading them is depressing as shit:

     

    EDIT: Uploading the files directly produced illegible thumbnails so I've put them all up in an imgur album here. Peruse at your peril. Below are some verbatim transcriptions of the worst ones. Emphasis mine where present.

    • This stupid cunt is still alive? I love her attempt at comedy. "Peanut M&M'/s were my Xanax". All her stupid attempts to be funny were met with silence. Someone please strangle that stupid bitch.
    • Bogies Yes she broke the law. The Constitution! And put America to shame.She ought to be hung up by her semen stained dress until she is no longer with us! But if I was married to witch HILLARY I would have banged too if i was him. But they both are trash! Vote for Hillary now you fools because that is what this is leading to. Oh yes, Bogies did I mention I hope you burn in HELL? [note: Bogies is another YouTube commenter]
    • P.S. My God you have got to be the craziest bitch on earth. yes, i hate you and now I know why! I hope God kills you soon and it is broadcast worldwide You are an embarrassment to the whole human race!
    • Because she is a lying little piece of shit. No better than Bill! She knew what she was doing and was so ARROGANT!! That's what you GOD DAMNED bleeding heart Liberal socialist pathetic ignorant shit faces do! Blame every body else for your filthiness and evil stupidity! Just die and go to HELL already!
    • Did she not realize yet that her mouth is only good for sucking and not talking.
    • Monica please realize that still the only thing you are good for would be giving head and not lectures.
    • Damn who knew sucking dick qualifies you for big forum public speaking.
    • This woman is a vain, physcotic scociopath... eat shit and die already! Home-wrecker!
    • Monica Lewinsky you cannot blame Drudge Report because you were a penis licking whore!! You are one of the dumbest and most ignorant pieces of shit that ever breathed. All of you political savages are stupid as Hell but you are more so than most. You deserve to burn in Hell for what you are doing now! You can be forgiven for what you did but you cannot be forgiven for the atrocities you are committing right now against those young people. Don't listen to this filthy whore folks. She is not patient zero. SHE IS A ZERO PERIOD! Novar 19 you are just about as big a dumb ass fool as she is! [note: Novar 19 is another YouTube commenter.]
    • Every time she opens her mouth I picture a old wrinkly dick.. Fuck I'll just put down my phone and listen!
    • GIVE ME A BLOWJOB...
    • Not so fast you stupid bitch, Bill Clinton ruined you not Drudge!!!! You cum stained Liberal whore!!!
    • Whore
    • WHOREinski
    • She should change her name to Monica Blowinsky : O
    • squirt, squirt , squirt :D
    • Waste of a good cigar
    • Shut the f up
    • ah suck a dick and STFU bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • Stupid CUnt STFU and suck my dick.
    • Shut up bitch. You were at fault and you're lucky the Blue Dress turned up or the Clinton mob would have DESTROYED YOU.
    • She apparently loves the abuse. Look at her, it is everyone else's fault. Not hers and certainly not president's. She lives in fantasy land.
    • Sucking dick must be inspirational for you.
    • Don't suck off a president and you won't be made fun of... duh.
    • Bullying? About what? Tell the truth is not bullying. Life is paying back the bill what she did. So don't be stupid.
    • So .. Monica Lewinsky is the new spearhead figure for the next big gravy train of Victimhood Feminism ? LOL
    • Hey "victim" don't put a married sitting president's joint in your mouth and your life wouldn't have been "ruined"!!
    • she blew the president and tried to black mail him for her own benefit - whatever has been said about her is obviously not enough to make her run to whatever bridge she crawled out from under.
    • She's a nice, pretty, plump one. I'd let her give me a blowie.
    • she gave the president a bj and let him stick a cigar up her pussy and is wondering why people dont like her.
    • Your own fault, shouldn't be involving yourself with a married man...!! You deserve what you get...
    • Lewinsky should pose for playboy, I don't know if they've offered. She's not extremely pretty but better looking than people give her credit for, and she was way better than the alternative, Hillary.
    • Well she deserves what she's been through
    • She deserved it, all of it. She was a slut and a moron. Definitely still a moron, probably still a slut too. She decided to do it and she payed the price.
    • The internet didn't shame her she shamed herself!
    • why do i keep picturing that mouth sucking dick?
    • No matter how you put, explain or justify it, every time you open your mouth, unfortunately, I see a president choice. So keep your mouth shut.
    • I can't believe she is still talking about this shit. How many times do we got to hear this? She is not a victim. She created this situation. She only has herself to blame.
    • No one was bullying her. Reports of her actual actions were put online - today we call that facebook.
    • Lewinsky's "Patient Zero" fantasy reveals the bullying nature of those who play victim.
    • This bitch is atrocious.
    • She's a slut because she knowing had the affair with a married man. Morals didn't stand in her way.
    • Monica you are irrelevant and a whore... off..
    • I'd do her
    • does she give good head ? if so got next
    • Go suck a dick monica.
    • Famous for being a whore. Famous for being an adulterer. She should be ashamed of her self! Disgusting pig!
    • Get over it pig. You should have to pay for your adultery. You brought it upon yourself. Sleazy liberal demons.
    • Does she has dignity? Jajajajajaja! You make me laugh! She's a Fucking bitch and slot.
    • She sounds like this is her first speech ever. Plus she is trying to claim she was the first viral cyber bullied person on social media. What a fucking bimbo slut.
    • I'd f**k
    • epitome of a hoe
    • You didn't loose your reputation Monica, you earned your reputation. Quit playing the damsel in distress and women up to the fruits of your labor.
    • Yes Monica, we do need a cultural revolution. It starts by people not having any more affairs with married people. You also could have given your audience some advice on how to avoid being called a tramp, such as not being tramp.
    • Does she still give Dome.
    • there's a few cum stains on her jacket. look closely ;)
    • Fucking bitch! She needs money. She must be making porn movies.
    • nice dsl on her. [note: DSL stands for Dick Sucking Lips.]

    ***

     

    ...and the beat goes on. There are way more where these came from. This is over 15 years after the scandal first broke. Some recurring themes:

    • "Shut the fuck up and suck my dick"
    • Whore / slut / bitch
    • It's your own fault / you deserve what you get

    So tell me Matt, bullying or criticism? Do these waters feel muddied to you? Is this what you think she's asking for?

     

     

     

     

    Case closed.

    • Like 7

  20. Posted · Edited by pfchangs

    Thomas invited everyone on this forum who had a strong opinion to join the Case Closed. I even told him to have mutiple callers on at the same time if need be. Only this guy showed up.

    Just wanna make clear that I was only given an hour's notice in the middle of a Tuesday afternoon and I couldn't just leave work to call in to a podcast. If I had known yall were just gonna go with the next guy and I wouldn't get my say then I might have faked an emergency or something. I ain't no coward of the county.

     

    I'll post a bigger response that's more or less what I wanted to say, but for here I just want to add one thing to what erudite crudite said in the IQ of a Corpse episode's forum. Basically I call bullshit on the idea that keeping the dress meant Monica Lewinsky wanted people to find out and that she's lying when she says she didn't want people to know.

     

    The only verifiable lie Monica Lewinsky told was when she committed perjury to keep the affair secret. When the investigation was in its early stages, before they knew about the dress, she lied in an affidavit and said she and Clinton didn't have a relationship. After they found out about the dress from Linda Tripp's secretly recorded conversations, she testified in exchange for immunity from prosecution for perjury, which could have landed her in jail for up to 5 years. So just to repeat, she risked going to jail to avoid revealing the affair.

     

    EDIT: 5 years is the perjury sentence I got from googling it really quickly so it might not be accurate; in her cyberbullying speech she said prosecutors threatened her with 27 years.

    • Like 3

  23. Posted

    I'm not going to continue this debate here but you are all welcome to Case Closed.

    Here are my criticisms/opinions that you can debate:

    1. ML has repeatedly tried to parlay the Clinton affair into a career for heself.

    2. I don't believe that she is a completely innocent victim who is above public criticism. She doesn't deserve slut-shaming but I believe she knowlingly slept with a married man; knowingly did something that could jeopardize the presidency; and she is a fame-monger. I also think she is a phony and a liar. (like all politicians pretty much)

    3. Using her age as an excuse isn't an excuse.

    4. She wanted to keep the blue dress to prove to the world that she had slept with Clinton.

    5. Ultimately she is a bad choice to be the spokesperson for cyberbullying.

     

    * And just because I don't want Valerie to go to bed angry...when this all went down I was angry with Clinton too. Because he cheated on his wife who I love and also I believe the incident helped usher in the Bush era. But I think Clinton has regreted the incident and tried to leave it behind whereas I believe ML loves that it all happened as much as she says the opposite.

    OK I'll do Case Closed if Erudite crudite's not up for it. Doesn't seem like we'll ever agree on her motives or what kind of person she is but the cyberbullying angle is worth talking about more. Who do I contact to set it up?

    • Like 1

  24. Posted

    Check your timeline. The moment she decided to keep that cum stained dress is the moment she decided she wanted everyone to know she had an affair with Clinton. SNL, etc. just further proved she loves the limelight. If she was so hurt then why stay in the spotlight. Dont tell me being on SNL is a big payday. It's just fame.

    How do you know she wanted everyone to know? Plenty of secret mistresses have keepsakes. I'd maybe believe that if she'd actually come forward with it herself but she didn't, Linda Tripp convinced her not to clean it and then snitched on her. What do you think her plan was? "Ok so my friend will secretly record our conversations, I'll get investigated by the government, this little website Drudge Report will become one of the most popular websites of all time and usher in a new era of internet media from covering it, it'll catch on with the national traditional press, the President will get impeached, and then I'll spend the rest of my life as a professional punchline! Brilliant." Come on.

     

    As for SNL, sure it wasn't a big payday, but it was still a payday. Again, no one will hire her for actual jobs. She hasn't had a full-time job for over 15 years. She was an intern before, you think she had money saved up to pay her legal bills and support herself?

     

    Now enough debate prep, save it for Case Closed.

    • Like 3

  25. Posted

    Actually she did ask to become a household name by going on SNL, by hosting a reality dating show, Jenny Craig. She clearly loved being famous and she had nothing to be famous for but being an adulteress and saving a cum stained dress. If she had stepped out of the public eye then she wouldn't had gotten as much "bullying". Not all criticism is bullying. She is not beyond criticism. I was never mad at her for telling on Clinton or blowing him. I never thought "That whore!" She's not a slut whore she's a fame whore.

    I'm not just an Arkansan, my family is friends with the Clintons. So where is my empathy? With Hillary.

     

    Check your timeline Matt, she didn't ask to be famous. The criticism and straight up abuse she got didn't start with her media appearances. You think when the Starr report came out she thought to herself "Oh cool, now I can be a celebrity on TV" and jumped for joy? She was only in a position to be on SNL because she was already a household name in the first place. Going on SNL or Jenny Craig or doing a line of handbags did not make her a household name or more famous than she already was, it just put a little money in her pocket. And remember that she couldn't (and still can't) get a real job, no "respectable" employer would touch her with a ten foot pole. She's been Scarlet Lettered, and that's on us. You can empathize with both Lewinsky and Hillary without contradiction, they've both been wronged by Bill, the media, and the public.

    • Like 5
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