AlmostAGhost

Wait so you already made the pick and you're just not telling us now?

I'll just add that Norwegian/Scandinavian art and literature is quite often dark af -- serial killers, existential detectives, gruesome bloody scenes, etc. It's also the home of Satanic-based death metal music, even though most of the country is really quite secular. I've read a lot of Nesbo's books (including this one), but also many similar Swedish and Icelandic books. Basically what I'm saying is, this is a genre. It's not a Jo Nesbo thing. My theory is that it's about the long dark winters and maybe Nordic/Viking mythology. Anyway I haven't listened to the ep yet (nor watch the movie) but as I said in the mini-ep thread I'm quite curious because the book is very good. I'm in for a fun weekend lol

Well... Bugs Bunny is like them. They came before Bugs Bunny, and he often acted like Groucho directly. One thing that I think hasn't got too much attention in this series is boundary-pushing, and I think these two Marx Brothers movies really point that out. Duck Soup was an original. There's been a lot of insane joke-jammed movies since, but find me one that came out before 1933. It pushed the boundaries of comedy so so far. It's the Citizen Kane of comedy. Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, etc. are hilarious, but not in this anarchic way, and Duck Soup really set a level which you see in all our favorite things -- best eps of The Simpsons, Monty Python movies, Will Ferrell's absurdity, etc. Opera, on the other hand, plays more within the boundaries of what people expect a film to be. That's fine, but that's also why I don't think it has a place on the AFI list. Put more comedies on there, yes please, but put ones that help to redefine what a comedy movie is. Also, I'm not so sure taste in the Marx Brothers has to do with childhood nostalgia; it's just that comedy is subjective.. which is also why I think boundary-pushing is a good measure for comedy.

Oh for sure. There's no chance they'd actually have been nominated, but certainly all 3 are high enough quality, and have made big impacts on culture.

Rushmore, The Big Lebowski, The Truman Show were all 1998

I'm not gonna defend all the dramatics, because I also felt it wasn't a great film in that regard. Maybe pushing it to the end would have helped give Richard's story some form. But I think as it is, it had to do with Nat taking him to her house and even forcing the confrontation - remember, Richard chickened out there and wanted to leave. They were helping each other move forward. Did Richard actually move forward? Probably not, in the end. Even though Richard blurting out "I love you" and angrily insulting her family wasn't the right move, Nat did get him literally to the point where he could bury these imaginary feelings that were his big hang-up. And it does make an impact as it leads directly to him proposing to the other girl, who clearly is just a replacement obsession. (Yes, there's no real growth to Richard's arc, but it is the progression of his story. I think they're related occurrences.)

Went looking... here's an interview with Jason about his view of the character/story https://www.slashfilm.com/jason-mantzoukas-interview-long-dumb-road-john-wick-3-how-did-this-get-made/

In my personal experience, this was pretty accurate. Like if you're smitten with someone for a long time, and it won't ever happen, it's all in your head, you just need that one thing to push it behind you. Sometimes that moment is hard to get to or find, but when it comes, it goes fast. That's what I saw happening here. I didn't take it as 'whatever'. It was an actual break in his obsession of her. If he were that mercurial, he wouldn't have held on to his feelings for so long, so I don't think that's an excuse here. He makes cringey bad decisions for sure, but I don't think they're totally crazy either.

I enjoyed the ending. The stealing of Francois' car was satisfying to me. Also I took the very end as Richard didn't really change at all, he just went straight to the slots and moving his life to Vegas (where certainly his wild nature would be uninhibited). Nat continues on his journey, walking on to the train, to keep moving forward. It didn't seem all that ambiguous to me! I do agree that a little more pre-story would have been helpful in fleshing the characters/story out a little more though.

The way I usually hear it is just someone using it to say an actor did a good job. Not necessarily the best, just maybe a bit better than good. Maybe if someone is saying 'this is a historically notable performance' than it's fine. But rarely I think they mean that. I don't know, I find it a weird shorthand.

One that also never shows up here is 'Oscar-worthy'. That's just such a circular meaningless phrase, but it seems to be a go-to for most people. Maybe because just about every movie we discuss is famous for being great. Anyway, either way, yea we're better than Facebook.

Ah The Snowman had been on HBO app for like 6 months... until last week! Also I've read The Snowman book, and it's great! Curious how the film gets it so wrong

Haha yea. I think I made clear why I think it's badly manipulative, so I was half-joking. Maybe the phrase needs more elaborating though, for sure, but 'cheese' also encompasses the problem with it. I like narrowing down definitions though, because as mentioned by you guys earlier, most films are in some ways. So where is the difference? What's the line? I think the key is in the 'manipulative' part. 'Emotional' is fine. But 'emotionally manipulative'? I think that's valid criticism. Badly manipulative stories add emotion unnaturally -- either ringing untrue like grudlian's example, or just totally unnecessarily (like every other example in the movie). The fact is, this isn't a Hallmark TV movie about the people falling in love at Christmas time. It should not need to do this to be effective. It does not need to manufacture all these little moments for us in this way. It's condescending!

OK, replace any mention I made of 'manipulative' with 'pointlessly cheesy'

Right, and I think you can be manipulative without it being maudlin or cheesy or stereotypical or basic. E.T. is probably also highly manipulative, but it isn't hackneyed. Maybe there's subtle differences and we can all tolerate this to our own thresholds though. My take here is not so much that manipulation is awful in of itself, but that it severely clashes with the documentarian style and does lead to a somewhat nonsensical narrative.

This review rules

I was worried the Saving Private Ryan ep would be overly focused on minutiae of filmmaking (sound design, etc.) but am very happy with the direction the discussion did go. I pretty much agree with Paul & Amy here, but go a little further - I question this story and basically don't like it much at all. When thinking about it, I keep coming back to Vin Diesel's death scene. Instead of just being dramatically shot, Spielberg and the writer have to wrap it all in this scene with the little girl and how she reminds him of her niece and then he gets shot. To me it's like, you spend all this time on accuracy but then it's telling these emotionally manipulative scenes, which to me is the opposite of accurate. They don't fit together. Even the whole story of saving Ryan, as Paul said, it's about pleasing the mother which is a strikingly cheesy way to frame the whole thing. I'm no big fan of war movies, and the others we've seen on this list weren't my favorites either, but I'll say I vastly preferred Platoon and Apocalypse Now to this one. In fact, it's making me look at those two a little more favorably than I previously had.

Hmmm we could call Cool As Ice our musical one and Long Dumb Road can be the Classic. Me, I'm not sure I can make both days for a Rabbit but am planning to watch Long Dumb Road on my own.

Same. I've never seen a Twilight film but if we're going to discuss, I'm going to want more notice to watch the earlier ones too

hey Paul how about this movie at some point -- same subtitle and everything

Thanks I'll let you know! In my eagerness to get through the podcast a couple years back, I didn't watch all that many of the films as I was going. So I am planning to try to catch up to the Classics but I still have 10-15 to go.