LondonCallingRex

THE HOST is a good film and I'm glad I saw it. But it is by no means a Canon film. Crazy that it's even this close.

Very excited about this. This movie absolutely still holds up and the effect it had on the culture is profound. It's a philosophical and psychological textbook disguised as a fantastic sci fi action story, but throwing in readings about global warming, AI, feminism, and trans rights makes it relevant still to this day. Is there a question about whether this is Canon worthy? Feels like a shoo-in.

Like other people have been saying, this episode was kind of hard to get through. The amount of times that Amy and Heather utterly misread the situation in the film is staggering. The show really needs Devin back, because his insight would have been yugely beneficial in an episode like this. As for the film itself, it's a tough one for me. The movie is good not great but it seems destined to inspire discussion, and the fact that it is still controversial really says something. As for myself, I can say this movie absolutely taps into very real fears of mine, which are centered around these kinds of invasions into my private home life, whether by strangers or by people I know. So it definitely had me jumping and very much on edge. For that kind of reaction and my excitement to discuss it with people, I'll vote Yes. Though it's a soft Yes.

When are we getting the Best Of The Year episode (it's probably futile since we all know Moonlight will get in, but come on guys) and the 100th episode bash to remove a film that we were promised? Also if they already recorded the episode for Welcome To The Dollhouse, are we getting that at some point? They can even pretend Devin is the guest that episode. As for this one, I'm looking forward to it. Not sure it's nearly as stressful as The Fly vs The Thing but should be a good debate regardless

Can't wait to hear how Amy finds a way to shit on La La Land in this episode... Anyway, I would much prefer this as an All or Nothing vote, because that's how the books and films were made and because it makes no sense to only get part of the story in the Canon. People used that exact argument against Empire Strikes Back. But I'll live, because I love these movies. They're not perfect, especially the battle in RotK, but they're thrilling and fantastic and moving, they're impossibly difficult movies to get made considering the amount of work that went in to every aspect of the production design, and they've had a huge technical impact. Plus it gave us Andy Serkis's only job for the rest of his life. Since I'll apparently have to vote for only one, I'll likely go with Fellowship due to the wonder of being thrust into this amazing world, plus the sheer horror that mostly goes away in the other two movies, but drives so much of the plot and stakes in FotR. I need to do my annual marathon watch-through of the movies anyway, so I might as well do it now.

I watched the movie for the first time, having always heard about how inferior it is compared to SPR from other people, and I really enjoyed the film. Is it amazing? No, but it's certainly worth watching. So I was going into the episode prepared to vote No. But I think I was swayed, like Amy. My biggest argument against the film was the lack of a cultural impact, but I think it's a movie that absolutely should have an impact, and hopefully will one day if it can get inclusion in the Canon. Like they said in the episode, it's an absolute artifact of pre-9/11 films, which altogether seem to be movies without a lasting impact. One day we will move on from this terrible time we're in, and these lighthearted middle brow movies will be back in vogue. It's okay to include movies like that in the Canon. Not everything has to be game changing art, I'd go out of my mind if that were the case. Devin would absolutely be a hard No on this, correct?

By the way, why did Franklin bring Whiplash to the table if he was going to take the stance that it hasn't been around long enough to have made an impact? Why not pick a different movie from the Black List that actually *has* had an impact so that Whiplash can be saved for later? So confused by the pairing in this episode.

Why the hell are they adding a Neither option... the entire point of The Canon has always been "deal with it", and people complained and complained in literally every versus episode that there needs to be a Neither option. But now it's here to stay apparently. I miss Devin more every episode. Anyway, out of the two movies, Whiplash is my personal favorite. It's massively entertaining and incredibly well shot and acted, and as a musician myself, it's relatable in a pretty upsetting way. Juno is a moving, beautiful movie that is also incredibly well acted. It was relatable for me in high school and it's relatable from an entirely different point of view now that I'm (more of) an adult. This is how Malcolm In The Middle is for me too by the way, but that's not really relevant here. The problem with Juno though is the appallingly bad dialogue. Yes, it's mostly at the beginning, and that first scene with Rainn Wilson is basically unwatchable, but it continues throughout the movie and never really settles to sounding natural. So for my personal canon of movies, my vote goes for Whiplash all the way. But for this Canon of movies that need to be passed down and watched by future generations, there's really no question that Juno is the winner (not Neither, cowards). The movie is important to watch for high school kids, college kids, and adults, whether settled down or not. Everyone can get something different out of the movie, and I think it's important for high school kids especially to see a funny and relatable movie that deals with teen pregnancy in such a realistic way. Like they said in the episode, this movie kind of soured for me over time, but coming back to it (after about 15 minutes), I remembered why it meant so much to me and my friends 10 years ago. So my vote for The Canon is Juno all the way.

The thing is, people are saying I shouldn't like them, specifically Amy and Armond (and Devin for Stranger Things, I don't actually know his opinions on La La Land, though I wouldn't guess they're positive). Armond said La La Land can only be enjoyed by people who know nothing about the tradition of movie musicals. This show has repeatedly made the case that great movies don't necessarily have to be about more than some simple fun premise (more precisely, Devin has repeatedly made this case). So it annoys me when I'm told that La La Land will never ever ever have a place in the Canon because apparently it's so referential that it's somehow worse than Working Girl and Pennies From Heaven, two movies that are distinctly "fine" in my opinion. By the way, just to be clear, I'm not saying La La Land is my favorite movie of all time by any means. But I definitely think it's a very solid movie that is facing Avatar levels of post-release internet hatred, and I think "superior minds" are having a blast telling everyone else in the world how horrible the movie is.

I guess they did away with the original Episode 100 idea? I guess I'm happy because of how brutal that would have been, but I was still looking forward to it. Also, a Best of 2016 episode would still be welcome even though it's a little late at this point.

So tired of hearing this argument about La La Land. Even the fact that that's the first sentence of my comment annoys me. Seems like next week will be more of the same though, since it's guaranteed to come up in the discussion about Whiplash. Amy brought up in an earlier episode how annoying Stranger Things was (and how TERRIBLE it is to anyone with good taste *sigh*) because it would reference things without necessarily doing anything with it, in a winking manner. I guess she's not aware that not everyone has seen as many movies as her, and that movies and TV can be perceived as referential and fun even without the audience knowing exactly what is being referenced. Maybe she thinks that most people don't get the references like she does, so any enjoyment those people get out of it is uninformed and thus they shouldn't actually enjoy it. I despise this argument on so many levels. She's even made the point before in a couple episodes that "EVERYONE knows the story of Medea/Orpheus/etc, how could anyone miss the reference??". Ugh. I don't mean to come off like a dick, it just annoys me. /rant As for these two brilliant movies, I'm having a very hard time deciding. Sign has an unparalleled level of fun, and Sense has an unparalleled level of weird. Both movies have incredible music and incredible performances from the bands. But only one of them has the giant suit, which I was aware of (and laughing at) before ever even hearing the music by the Talking Heads so I think I have to go with that, for the cultural impact. It's strange that both Amy and Armond said Yes to both movies in the end. I think that's the only time where they haven't made a final decision on the show, though the whole point of the show has always been that there are no real rules, so whatever who cares. I'm guessing Devin would have been more committal and forced answers out of everyone and probably would have gone with Stop Making Sense? I'm still just so happy the Canon is back, regardless of my kind of pedantic complaints.

Anyone know who the guest is?

Agreed. This movie is very similar to The Goonies for me. It's a worshipped movie from before my time that I think only really appeals to the people that grew up with it. I don't hate it, I just don't get it that much. Bill Murray is one of my absolute favorites, with Stripes and Groundhog Day and Lost In Translation and all his Wes Anderson movies being some of my favorites. And yet this is way way way too much Bill Murray. I used to skip school to watch Stripes on VHS back in elementary school (yeah it's weird, I don't know), but I've never liked this one and I don't know that it has really had that significant of an impact on culture beyond the fact that everyone knows the song and the symbol. Back To The Future has that too except its actually a great movie that has stood the test of time. So it's a No vote from me. Completely agree with Amy's closing argument. I don't know if anyone has a better idea, but I assume Devin would have voted Yes on this?

Very happy to hear it's back, and I think Ghostbusters with Paul Scheer is a great restart for the podcast to get people right back into it and get the Canon back on top. I'm also really happy to hear the door is open for Devin to return. I know some people on here are against that so I hope people can forgive him for what he did, if he can come around and make amends himself. I'm a little disappointed that Welcome To The Dollhouse seems to have gotten shafted but it would also be really great if that movie was held in the back pocket for Devin's potential eventual return. We'll see. Anyway, here's to more of my favorite podcast!

Thanks for the words Amy. I truly hope The Canon continues with or without Devin, it's a fantastic concept, and I really enjoy the discussions we all have: heated, harmonious, and otherwise. Take all the time you need, we're all here ready for more whenever you are (okay maybe not all the time you need, I'm running out of episodes in my backlog. Hurry it up, wouldja??)

I won't quote the whole post, I just want to say that I agree with what you said. I was venting and many of my points were pretty far off and not great arguments. The fact is that I will sorely miss Devin and I hope he can get through this and continually improve himself, because none of us is perfect. I don't want any of this to be taken as being anti victim, I don't want to come across as defending the honor of a person I will never know personally, I just wanted to stand up for a guy whose opinions I respect and whose opinions were being denounced for something unrelated to those opinions. Cheers, and sorry for saying the word "opinions" so many times in the last sentence.

I have no idea if this is still happening but I have to say that the concept behind it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Yes, I understand the rules of The Canon are arbitrary, so it shouldn't matter. But the idea that these four movies were chosen because we have too many 80s sci-fi movies in The Canon is so strange! Does that mean we can't ever have a single other 80s sci-fi movie in The Canon in the future? Does it mean we need a proportional quota on our 80s sci-fi movies? Does it mean we have quotas on all genres from now on? Doesn't that mean that if we had just reviewed Blade Runner (my guess as the loser of this, could be wrong though) in two years or so, it would never risk removal from The Canon? It just doesn't make sense to me. If they want fewer 80s sci-fi movies, then stop having episodes with a focus on 80s sci-fi movies!! There are many other decades and many other genres. At the end of the day though, the rules are arbitrary and evil and that's how they're supposed to be.

This news bums me out so much. Devin was my favorite part of the show. Was he abrasive? Yup. Did he welcome opposing viewpoints? Nope. But that's what made it more real. When I discuss films with my friends, we insult each other and say the others are wrong, like what Devin did. The thing is, he is still a great film critic, and he's very well spoken. A highly highly regrettable event in his past (that we need to remember is not proven) doesn't change that. Unlike Trump, we're not deciding whether to vote Devin to be president. We're simply listening to his views as a film critic. I'm sure I'll get slaughtered for saying this, and I mean absolutely no disrespect to the victim. I can understand why sponsors may want to distance themselves from the situation and why Earwolf does not want to be tied with him anymore. But many of the fan responses on the forums are so troubling to me. People are talking about discounting his old opinions now and being happy he's gone, and that I just can't understand. I will miss his writing and his podcasting tremendously. Charles Manson makes some fairly good music, and he's an abhorrent human being, moreso than Devin by far. Jordan Belfort wrote a major best selling book that became a fantastic film. And people are able to look past the crimes somewhat to see the art or entertainment they create, and people publish their work regardless (maybe because of) their past. I don't know what the future holds for Devin at this point, but I truly hope he's okay and has a future in film criticism when the dust settles, and I ALSO hope the victim can find peace after what must have been a traumatizing experience. That said, I look forward to the Canon continuing and I hope they can find someone to provide a good balance with Amy, like Devin was.

No films should ever be removed from the Canon. There needs to be a certain weight behind the decision to vote Yes on something. If things can be removed, there will be more impulse Yes votes, knowing the decision could eventually be reversed. We don't all have to love every film in the Canon, they just represent films that a majority of people think deserve to live on for one reason or another.

I'd love to have this as an episode, or this vs Man On The Moon, as long as Eternal Sunshine gets its own episode so it can get in no matter what

Yeah that is definitely true, so it's not a perfect comparison, I'll admit. But this and Casino Royale both fall into that category of being semi VS episodes. Which movie of this incredibly significant franchise deserves to be in the Canon, OR does nothing from the franchise deserve to make it. Empire lost to Star Wars because Empire depends on SW, and the argument was that even though Empire is generally seen as better, Star Wars laid the groundwork and is still great. With Star Trek, the show is better than this movie in many cases, AND it laid the groundwork. So the decision seems like it should be that the show deserves Canon-ness more than Khan, thus Khan is denied entry. Khan shouldn't be let in simply to fulfill the role of having Star Trek in the Canon, like how Temple Of Doom was left out because we're all sitting around waiting for Raiders to finally get in. Just my take though, I don't mean to say the movie is garbage or anything, I just don't think it's Canon worthy personally, and there's sort of a precedent set there that involved Empire, which I yugely prefer to Star Wars, Jurassic Park, and this (but let's not get too far into Empire vs Jurassic because that was just unpleasant).

It is absurd to me that this movie is going to get into the Canon when Empire was utterly shut out with this logic: "Star Wars stands on its own, Empire depends on it". How does this NOT apply to the second Star Trek movie that follows a TV show as well..? This movie would not be a tenth as popular if it stood on its own. Period. And by the rule of precedent, it cannot be allowed in.