The_Triple_Lindy

Meanwhile there are a half-dozen Santa Clause movies and two Paul Blarts. This world is lame.

Fair points to both of you. I'll agree that this movie is a product of its time.

I daresay that most of this "contextualization" you advocate is implied, not just in the episode but in general. The 80s were creepy; it's a given. But I'd say it's also not entirely necessary. Forget 25 years ago? Please ... this kind of movie still exists and gets made every year. It might not be marketed to kids, but I don't think Ladybugs really is, either, despite the fact that movie may have found a younger audience. But transphobic, homophobic, racist, misogynist humor in a Hollywood movie? Sure glad those days are over ... Are you saying we can't pick on dead people? I'll be sure to get my licks in on Cosby while he's still alive. I'm not comparing Cosby's personal life to Dangerfield's, but his on-screen persona is 1000 different shades of creepy. His legend might not be as notorious as Cosby's, but I'm afraid his work will fade away due to lack of relevance. And I disagree that R-Danger is entirely blameless for this film's content. Every part of this character's personality is tailored to his comedy. His age doesn't make sense plot-wise, but Rodney's fingerprint is everywhere in this film.

Incidentally, Ladybugs made me realize how poorly R-Danger's whole schtick has held up. His stand-up routine is a bit broader in terms of content, meaning it wasn't all sex and women jokes ... he talked about his childhood/parents and his bosses and doctors and anyone else that wasn't giving him respect. But in Ladybugs, he's only slightly more lovable than Andrew Dice Clay. The gay jokes, the racist jokes, and all the goddamn sex jokes aren't a good look, man. I don't know of any scandals that might tarnish his career, but I'm afraid he might be one of those that just gets lost to time because it's so irrelevant and passe.

See, I don't think they were trying to copy The Mighty Ducks or Bad News Bears ... forgive me a moment of indulgence as I invoke the Power of Avatar and postulate that this movie is trying to copy Back to School. Aside from the impetus behind the plot (trying to get a promotion vs. trying to get the degree you never got) and the cross-dressing element, the two movies hit all the same beats, except that he does in Ladybugs what he does with college girls in B2S. But in both movies, he's a fish-out-of-water with a son-figure he's trying to impress while simultaneously tormenting him. He plots and schemes to accomplish things he ultimately realizes he has to come by honestly. There are a variety of colorful characters standing in his way (the coaches vs. the teachers). He sings weird versions of classic rock standards and ends with a shout out to his trademark punchline -- although the ham-fisted "I finally got some respect" is a total half-assed shoutout compared to rolling credits on Aretha. I daresay the only B2S has that LBs doesn't is the out-of-nowhere display of athletic prowess that some genius somewhere named The Triply Lindy ... oh, and that it's not shitty, while Ladybugs is. There's also the quality of the comedy. The comedy is B2S is adult, for sure, but it's not all sex jokes and innuendo. There's Kinnison, there's Vonnegut, there's Oingo Boingo. "Hey guys, have some pens! You know, for when you learn to write!" "Hey everyone! Shakespeares for everyone! On me!" That stuff is hilarious! Meanwhile, LBs works the sex jokes so relentlessly that by the end they're running out of ideas and just going "Hey everybody, I finish quickly during sex!" Plus, those posters, tho:

And how quickly does Martha give Chester the slip and find that gym? One second they're walking down the sidewalk talking to each other, and the next, he's giving a handspeed tutorial and Planet Fitness.

The one that always pops into my head is "Jam Tomorrow, Jam Yesterday ..." I don't even know how I did that, so no. That's the very one!

I cheated a bit to get two picks in one ... just call me The_Double_Lindy. Although, after Ladybugs, I'm thinking that I might need a new avatar. Patron St. Dangerfield took a black eye in that one. The very same! This movie is the reason I still have most of "You Are Old, Father William" memorized.

Just so everyone knows, I've been in appropriate agony about this since last week. I've been a bit of Grinch when it comes to musicals most of my life, but I have thoroughly enjoyed participating in these discussions, as you guys have turned me on to movies I wouldn't have otherwise bothered to watch. Therefore, I am woefully uninformed about musicals, yet desperately want to avoid derailing this weekly tradition by picking garbage. I've been torn by this decision. On one hand, some of my favorite movies are about bands, like Spinal Tap and Tenacious D, though they're not "musicals" in the traditional sense, but several "story of the band" or "portrait of the artist" movies have come up lately, both in Musical Mondays and HDTGM. Also, I'm entering month 3 of my DLM challenge and thought about picking something blind in order to kill two birds with one stone. But as I've pondered this, one movie kept coming to mind. This movie is one I encountered in my childhood, in the days of VHS ... somewhere in my attic, I still have a well-loved copy of this made-for-TV movie, featuring all of the original commercials, with my grandmother's handwriting on the peel-and-stick "Maxwell" labels. This is certainly not my favorite movie -- not even really my favorite musical -- but it has left an indelible mark on my memories of childhood. It's a story that everyone knows, with every role (save for the title role) being played by the most familiar faces of mid-1980s celebrity. I give you ... This is, specifically, the two-part 1985 made-for-TV version, which is available, in its full glory, . FYI, I am open to the idea of watching only the first half or the second. But the whole thing is really worth it, just to see some of the biggest and most-iconic celebrities ever wearing the silliest costumes imaginable.

I'd like to dispel a myth if I can: The scene where Matthew runs into a women's bathroom to become "Martha," while Chester waits outside and diverts a little old lady into the men's room, where she screams in terror as Chester says "She probably seeing something she never sees at home." What, exactly, is she seeing? I've been in thousands men's restrooms and have never ever really come close to seeing a dick. There are partitions, there are stalls with doors, and there are "eyes up and front" rules ... even with the infamous trough at the sports stadiums, you have to try to see junk, and you try at your own peril. This is one of those jokes that isn't based in anything in real life. Everyone in life has gone into the wrong restroom and usually can back out graceful with minimal incident. Remember, kids: NOBODY COCKFLAPS IN THE MENS ROOM!

Matthew would have had to fill out some paperwork for the soccer league in order to play as Martha, wouldn't he? Kimberly's dad owned the team, so ... maybe?

Anyone else?

There's no way this is true, right? I have to imagine this was a case of "an adult movie starring kids" kinda like a Stand By Me or Blue Lagoon or something. There's no way, even in the 80s, that someone saw Rodney Dangerfield's humor as kid-friendly. Right? By the way, don't ever Google "adult film starring kids" ... Hi, NSA!

Skittle Pox? That's kinda what I thought, too. He's a young dude who's fallen into a gig and is trying to fit in. His "my vending machine job is so hard" line is supposed to seem kinda laughable considering who he's surrounded by. But I mean, he's making music, smoking weed, flirting with prostitutes ... just tryin' to live that life, mayne.

And this ...

That hair, though ...

See, I don't have a problem with the unresolved, "downer" endings. I'm actually more stimulated by art that shoves the bleakness of existence in my face and says "DWELL IN IT AND CONFRONT YOUR OWN INSIGNIFICANCE, MUTHAFUCKA!" than I am with art that tries to put a shine on everything. (EDIT: Then again, I just watched the "No Rain" video with my daughter and started to cry when the Bee Girl found the other Bee People ... so there's that) But I get it. I've become a parent since the last time I watched H&F, and that moment definitely pinged off me differently that it did before. Takes a cold heartlessness to write-off a baby like that. Certainly not what you like to see a protagonist do. In the context of the film's plot, Lexus is the most toxic personality in Djay's life, so the movie seems to be making his eviction of her and her baby an act of heroism, an overcoming of an obstacle. That's a hard sell, for sure.

I had thought about this, but we've done a few "story of a rockstar/band/rapper" movies ... don't want to wear everybody out

Holy shit ... I have no idea what to pick. Musicals aren't really my thing ... I enjoy coming to this board in an "expand your horizons" way but I will for sure pick something stupid for lack of knowing any better.

So, for part two of my “In Defense of a Pimp” essay here, I’d like to just ask why we need Djay to be redeemable in order to sympathize with him. Yes, crafting an effectively-sympathetic antihero isn't easy, but it also isn't uncommon. Many of the best-written and most widely-revered characters of the last 25-50 years have been just ... just awful human beings -- Tony Soprano, Don Draper, Walter White, Bruce Wayne, most of the Game of Thrones pantheon, Al Swearingen, and of course Yussel Rabinowitz (ZING!! Got you, Cameron ). The reason is clear -- real people are complex and don't neatly fit into categories as broad as "good/bad," and audiences like to see such complexity reflected in their characters. But I've had debates and have born witness to others with folks who can't (or won't) root for a character like DJay but have no problem with Soprano or Don Draper, but when you tick off the list, DJay is not significantly worse than any of these listed above. Misogynist? Check. Selfish? Check. Foul? Prejudiced? Violent? Exploitative of women? Dismissive of the needs and desires of those around him? Uses others as means to get what he wants? All boxes checked, almost across the entire board. So what's the difference between Djay and these others? I think the most obvious answer is the Djay is an anti-hero who is also a person of color. But the cinematic landscape isn’t without other examples of Anti-Heroes of Color – whose heart didn’t break when Omar died in The Wire? What about Lucious and Cookie in Empire (Hi, Terrance! Hi, Taraji P!)? So that’s maybe too easy of a rationale for me. Maybe it’s because DJay is a pimp, which is kind of an extra-low level of criminal, sure, but being awful toward and exploitive of women is not a deal-breaker for an Al Swearingen or Don Draper. My gut wants to say that, maybe, it’s because he’s Southern, and so an audience’s disgust over his lifestyle is compounded by their automatic disdain for his geographic location. It’s still totally ok for film to be dismissive of Southerners as ignorant and stupid. And hey, I get that – living here is a daily test of sanity and temper. And to be fair, Djay is kinda dumb and crass. He’s rough around the edges and unrefined. Sometimes we like our anti-heroes to rise above their circumstances (Walter White taking charge of his cancer-addled destiny, for example), while Djay seems to wallow in them. But the Sopranos is 6 ½ seasons of Tony Soprano asking a therapist why things seem to be so unfair for him. Yet we root for him (even if, yes, we kinda hope he dies at the end). I don’t know … I agree that Djay is existentially contemplative in a way that separates him from just another stock character. He’s worried he’s going to die without having ever done anything for himself or gotten anywhere. Who can’t relate to that? But I don’t see the movie really advocating that anyone follow his path, since the last shot of the movie is him following his path into a cellblock. His life path took him through unsavory territory, and he has to face the consequences of that. But that means we don’t root for him? To be clear, I’m not accusing anyone here of anything … we’re just having conversations. I guess I’m just sticking up for a character who reminds me a lot of people I know.

It’s probably hard to totally root for DJay and understand his struggle if you don’t really understand where he’s coming from. Which may be the film’s biggest failure, because everyone who made the film knows exactly where DJay is coming from and they probably take for granted that their own understanding of the character’s off-screen life comes through to the audience as evidently as it does to them. Take, for example, the soundtrack: the guys who composed the Oscar-winning soundtrack for this movie are/were called Three 6 Mafia. They’re from Memphis and got their start there. Their first album came out when I was in high school. And, it was horrifying – even for what is arguably rap’s most violent decade. Biggie and Pac’s music is violent in a way that is heavily socially aware … most gangsta rap is at least valuable in the sense that it speaks truth to power about the real experience of young, inner city black youth. Triple-6 rapped about cannibalism and sacrificing people to Satan, and their music was dark and brooding, going for a horror movie soundtrack feel. But it was all theatrics – they occupied the same space as GWAR or Black Sabbath occupies in metal. Take this song for example, which is a dis track aimed at Bone Thugs n Harmony in which they talk about stripping off their skins and eating their flesh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTSK5FSYR3s Thing is, Triple 6's music is very Memphis-conscious, and I think that their over-the-top darkness is intentional in that regard. Memphis is kind of a dark place, in ways that other big cities with racial tension are not, necessarily. This is a city that has not seen much economic progress since the 70s. All the buildings and roads are old. Homelessness is rampant. It’s always one of the Top 5 Most Murdery Big Cities in the country. And … look, I don’t speak from first-hand experience, but a whole lot of second- and third-hand experience has taught me that being black in Memphis is on a separate plane than other cities. American Racism was born in the fucking South. As one of my grad school professors put it, “Memphis is a checkerboard” – there are clear lines and boundaries between where the money is and isn’t. And it’s heavy there, man. The local government is corrupt. The cops are racist. The school system is broke. It takes 2 hours every morning before school to get all the kids through the metal detectors, and parents can get jacked after dropoff before they leave the parking lot. The old South is still everywhere, too. You pass about 50 miles of cotton fields driving toward Memphis from Nashville. The city parks, until only very recently, featured giant statues of Nathan Bedford Forrest and Jefferson Davis. You can take Ida B. Wells’ A Red Record and go on a tour of spots where black men were lynched post-emancipation – some of them are right downtown, too. Even though I have love for the city, I also have stories. 5 days after I moved there, a dude stole all the shit in my car. My license plate was ripped off on two separate occasions within 6 months of each other. Homeless people slept in the hallway right outside my door. The super at my apartment complex was killed in the most gruesome murder in Tennessee history. I could go on, but all this is to say that this is the kind of environment that produced Three 6, 8-Ball and MJG, Project Pat, and whole bunch of others – including Djay. So when I, as a former citizen, see a character like Djay, I see aspects of him that resonate with the city’s rather fucked up racial relationship and class structure. I see in Djay the same kind of world-weary nihilism and hopelessness that I saw in some of my neighbors. And I think some of my neighbors felt the same way, which is why a lot of my Memphis friends loved the flick. When he delivers his “man as in mankind” speech, he’s basically lamenting a situation in which he has no control but seems to dictate everything about his life and the options available to him. He turns to the few outlets for opportunity he has … drugs, crime, and ultimately, hip hop. Everyone here is right that the movie doesn’t glorify or lionize hip hop or the kinds of people that it turns into stars. Skinny Black is a bad person. Djay is too, but he actually tries to go about things honestly at first. The fact that his honest efforts fail to bring him recognition where his use of violence succeeds is telling – this is what you have to be to make it in the world if you’re a poor black guy in a city like Memphis.

True story: One of my jobs in Memphis was a manuscript editor for a local printshop. One of the manuscripts was from a former pimp entitled "M.E.M.P.H.I.S.: Makin' Easy Money Pimpin' Hoes in Style." Despite that title, most of the manuscript recounted endless examples of this guy moving place to place, living in squalor with 5 or 6 different women he pimped, and in the end, he finds Jesus and leaves the life and becomes a local community pillar with an inspirational story of redemption. I'm 99% sure he wrote that autobiography because Hustle and Flow had come out. I met him once and told him that it was ironic that he wanted to say "pimping in style" in the title since he had such a hard life, and he told me that it was all part of the act you had to put on to make it in that kind of business ... he spent every spare dollar he had on his clothes and car, just to put out a front that he was doing better than he actually was -- said, "Most pimps you meet are totally full of shit, but they look good, so fuck it. No one cares about the pimp except the other pimps." He was a wild dude.

So, I lived in Memphis for 2 years ... I moved there the summer after this movie came out. Just a few Memphisy things of note that might not register otherwise: 1. During the credits after the cold opening, Djay drives through Memphis and you can see shots of Beale Street, Front Street, Southern Ave (where they're sitting when the john rolls up), Union Ave (where the Backyard Burger is), and Summer Ave (Coltharp's Piano World is visible. That's down the street from the utility board -- I drove that street a hundred times just to pay the power bill). Those are a few of the city's main arteries. HOWEVER, you can't actually drive by Beale Street from the view he gets ... at least, when I lived there, Beale was pedestrian only from Front St. to 4th Ave, and it looks like he's driving down 2nd Ave. 2. The movie mentions Millwood Ave (Skinny Black's story when he's getting drunk with Djay), which is a somewhat notorious neighborhood in South Memphis, near the airport and Graceland (Elvis Pressley's home). You might not know that Graceland is in one of the rougher parts of town, which is just one of the many delicious ironies about life and race in Memphis. 3. Key's wife mentions that she gets her hair done in Germantown, which is the rich, mostly white suburb on the east side. Therefore, her hairdos are an assertion of class within the context of the film (along with nearly everything else about her character). 4. Djay tells Nola that he wants to hear his music playing "in the yard at 201." He's referring to 201 Poplar, the main jail in town. The jail is downtown, a few blocks away from the tourist parts. So when he says he wants to hear the music from jail, it's not that the jail is super-cool and plays music for its inmate population -- he could probably hear it from the clubs down the street. 5. DJ Qualls' character is named "Shelby" ... Memphis is in Shelby Co. 6. I am all too familiar with the "dirt weed" that one typically finds in Memphis. I don't think I bought a bag of bud that wasn't full of seeds and stems the entire time I lived there ... but goddamn, it was cheap and got you high. EDIT to add 7. The accent is just about right-on. Sorry if I'm blissing out, taking y'all down memory lane with me ... I love that city and loved living there.

Oh my god, this is my fear whenever I talk about hip-hop.

Man, I love this movie. Not man like "a man," but man like "mankind." I lived in Memphis around the time this came out. I didn't really meet anyone who complained about the way the city was depicted -- they all seemed to think it was pretty right-on.