Cameron H.

God, I love this song - in a completely ironic way. I hope you all have or find someone in your lives that you can duet this with.

Hmmm...the only way I’ve ever done it is by uploading it to Flickr first. I’m not sure what to do if the file is too large, though. Sucks. I want to see your sign!

Are you on Flickr or anything? (Also, how are you doing today, Elektra?)

I like this one a lot, but Scrooged and Mickey’s Christmas are still tops for me.

I was so close to picking this one

Considering a certain ongoing joke, I'm not sure it's wise for me to weigh in here, but here's my take... Personally, this is one of my favorite songs and performances in the movie. I'm not going to say I was offended by it simply because I never felt like the movie was being deliberately malicious. The joke is always on Neil Diamond. He's the one we're laughing at - not the other band members and not the audience. This isn't Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Now, should it have been included in the film? I don't know. Probably not. It really wasn't essential to the plot or anything, so it probably could have/should have gone. Still, since it IS in there, I feel like it's one of those things that's okay in the context of the movie, even if it's not okay in a greater social context. To be offended by it is to reduce Bubba to being just "the Black Guy." Bubba is supposed to be Jess' best friend and he's asking him to do a favor so they don't miss out on a huge opportunity. Jess tries to say "no," but Bubba insists. How would it have looked if Jess was like, "Fuck your career, Bubba! I'm not gonna do it! I can't understand how you don't see how offensive this is to you..." I honestly think that would have been the bigger dick move. Anyway, what I find more offensive than him putting on black makeup is the club rioting when they find out he's white. To me, that's way worse. And since we're on the subject: I did kind of cringe when Gethard pointed out that "Hip Hop was happening at the time." I'm sure it wasn't his intention, but it did come off like, "Black people can't possibly like Neil Diamond; they like rap." Or...maybe people are people and can like whatever the fuck they want? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ooh, sorry, this one I can’t do. I skip it every time. After you posted it, I was trying to look up its meaning, just to confirm I wasn’t missing a super subtle metaphor or something, when I saw this comment: I love the twist ending!

So...do you guys all want to share your favorite Neil Diamond songs? They can be covers of his songs if you want. So if you’re wondering, UB40’s “Red, Red Wine” is 100% on the table. (I’m going to pick two) I mean, he has an extensive catalog (as you all know), but if you put a guy to my head I’d pick “Solitary Man” and “Brother Love’s Traveling Salvation Show.”

You are all far too kind!

Not really “one,” but I love Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem!

At one point, I was going to pick this! Love this movie!

EXT. - KROGER’S PARKING LOT - MID AFTERNOON LOUISE, 22, walks to her white, 2006 Toyota Camry. It’s the one with the dent on the hood she keeps telling herself she’s going to get fixed when she has the time. She’s carrying her two heavy grocery bags because she didn’t want to bother returning a cart to the corral. She’s struggling. Her purse keeps slipping from her shoulder as she tries to find her keys. Neil:(O.S.)Hey! Hey! Louise looks up to see a MYSTERIOUS STRANGER, 39-52, waving his arms at her like a fucking maniac. Louise looks baffled by the man in the bedazzling, sequined shirt and oddly flowing helmet hair. He’s the kind of man who somehow looks hairier than he actually is. Louise:(confused) Uh, hi...? Neil:(bounding over) Louise, right? Louise: Um...uh, yeah. Neil: I knew it! Hello again, hello. He steps uncomfortably close, and she is immediately assaulted by wave after wave of Faberge Brut, stale Pall Malls, and patchouli. He goes in to kiss her cheek. She pulls away. Louise:(defensive) Whoa, buddy! Do I know you? Neil: (encouragingly) Oh, c’mon! It’s me! Neil! Neil Diamond. He wags his hips with a strange syncopation that not only looks obscene, but painful for a man his age. Neil(cont): "Ma cherie?” Remember? Louise: Sorry, not ringing any bells... Neil:(waving it off) Never mind, never mind. How the Hell have you been? Louise: Fine, I guess. Neil continues to smile and nod his head like a buoy during a changing tide. Louise is trying to look away. Anywhere else. Partly from discomfort and partly from the blinding corona of light that seems to emit from his sparkling shirt. Louise(cont): So...did you, like, need something? Neil laughs. It’s an abrasive gutterel sound like a sea lion choking on a cheese grater. Neil: Ha! “Need something?” No, no, no. It’s not what I need, it’s what you need. Louise vomits in her throat - and not a little. He waggles his eyebrows. Somehow, her face remains implacable; her hand, however, is now searching furiously for her keys. A loaf of French Bread falls on the ground. They both ignore it. He leans in... Suddenly... Louise: (triumphantly) My keys! Ha, ha! Thank God! My keys! She waves them in his stupid, bewildered face and gets in the car - slamming the door. Neil: C’mon, Louise, it’s cold out here. I remembered your name! That used to mean something! Baby, don’t close the door.... Louise puts the car in reverse and slams on the accelerator. The car clips Neil and sends him spiraling to the ground - his shirt glittering like a disco ball in the afternoon sun. He’s lying in the middle of the road in front of her car. He groans. His hips move weakly. Neil: (groaning) Ooh! Baby, baby. C’mon baby,now... Her heart racing, Louise grips the wheel. His groaning continues. She smiles and shifts the Camry into drive. After all, what’s one more dent, really? End.

As you all probably know by now, I loved this movie and defending it is apparently the hill upon which I die. I’m okay with that. I really don’t have much to say about the movie itself. However, I would like to comment on the lyrics of one of the songs. At his first performance opening for Zany, Jess sings the raucous song “Hey Louise (Guzman)” with the following lyrics: So, according to this song, Neil/Jess has just bumped into a woman he’s met previously, but apparently their previous encounter left so little of an impression on her that she can't even recall his name. Even his fancy French-talking isn't enough to jog her memoty. Undeterred, he assures her that he “remembers [hers]” And even though all he knows about her is the absolute bare minimum any person can know about another human being, he still feels confident enough to tell her that he “knows what she needs.” Damn, bro, that’s fucking bold and brassy.

I’m following you

Thanks! I totally forgot! Although, Jammer hasn’t been signed on since Oct 25th so we might be moving down the list. Max is next, but I think he’s still getting settled in his new home. Iff the top of my head, I think Sara K would be up next...

Yeah, it's really weird. It's like they want him to hurt people and do douchey things, but keep him completely blameless at the same time. I also think, as Jason and June said, it would have been better if he had been more of a dick. It would have been far more interesting and would have made his "atonement" much more impactful. And while I didn't get the same "all these women are throwing themselves at him" vibe the gang picked up on, I do feel like Neil Diamond, not "Jess," definitely felt like - even at forty - he was at, like, Leif Garrett levels of heartthrobdom. Kind of like how the Fast and Furious actors have it written into their contracts that their characters can never lose a fight, if you were to tell me that he had it written into his contract that there always had to be some kind of reasonable-ish excuse anytime his character did something shitty (to "protect his brand"), I would not be the least bit surprised.

I literally just edited a previous post to include this I’m mean, yeah, it’s insane, but I do think that was the intention and that theory kind of bears it out.

Or the sex is, like, really, really good. (...preferably on a huge pile of money.)

I feel like Jason and June seem to be making a lot of observations that completely disregard what’s explicitly stated in the movie. I love ripping apart these movies, but I also feel like you have to be honest about what the movie is trying to convey - even if it’s not being conveyed very well. There’s usually enough to take apart without just making things up. If you misrepresent the text - willfully or not - just to make a point, then I feel like it’s kind of cheating. For example, June says that after one little “stumbling block” he disappears for a year, but I feel like that’s disingenuous and kind of trivializes what his character is going through at that point in the movie. To me, a stumbling block is catching the flu and not being able to perform at an important show or something. However, the “stumbling block” she’s referring to is his father disowning him, the recent dissolution of his marriage, a new relationship that he’s been brought up his entire life to believe is a sin, and his ongoing crisis of Faith. And it’s not like any of this is subtext. This is all explicit in the movie. Another example is when Jason says, “I imagine a world where Rivka stays in LA” and June replies, “Oh, I love that.” But, why? Why would you love it if she stayed in LA? In the scene they’re referring to, he asks her to stay. He tells her they can get away from the synagogue and have a better life, and she refuses. Not because of Molly or because she doesn’t "get" him, but because that’s not who she is. She tells him outright that she loves the synagogue and that’s the life she wants. She tells him that all she’s ever wanted was to be the wife of a Cantor. I get people don’t want Rivka to get hurt, but saying - even as a joke - “I hope she stays in LA” is fundamentally misunderstanding her character. And worse, it's projecting your own ideas of happiness upon her. Whether it’s clear or not, the whole movie is him wrestling with his cognitive dissonance. He wants to be a good and faithful Jew, but he also wants to live his own true life as a rock star. This is why things like the “ham scene” happen. Yes, it’s kind of played for laughs, but more importantly, it’s stating (in perhaps a *ham*fisted way) that even though he’s trying to achieve this new thing, he hasn’t completely abandoned his faith and beliefs. This is the central conflict of the entire film, and if you miss that - respectfully - you’re kind missing the whole point.

...and he's still fucking late. :rolleyes:/> Oh, I got the impression that she just said that to protect herself. The last she knew was that Rivka was back in town. She left before the end of the show, so she had no way of knowing that they were going to be getting a seperation. She never actually says she and Tommy are an item, she just lets Jess assume it. And if you look at Diamond's ultra-subtle acting, you can see he's just as surprised by this "Tommy" as anyone. I also wouldn't say he delivered an "ultimatum." He just decides he can't leave without telling her what the situation with Rivka is and how he feels about her. The best he can come up with is "I don't want you going to Acapulco with him." The translation being: "I've fallen in love with you." Her response is to let Tommy expose her lie and let Jess know that they're just friends going for a day trip. To Triple: I totally get where you're coming from now (I hope...). I don't think the problem is that he doesn't experience hardships, but the movie does bend over backwards to never let him be the bad guy. Every time he does something that might be construed as unsavory, there's always seems to be a line or an event that immediately precedes it that is somehow meant to absolve him. Minstrel show? - "This is literally our last chance! We know this is fucked up, but we need a guy and you're our only hope." You got us all fired? - "That's okay, Jess, because the music is what's important and Billy Idol was completely fucking the song up." You're falling in love with another woman? - "That's okay, because you never consummated it." Leaving your wife might be the only way for you to achieve your dreams? - "That's cool, because she wants to leave you." You're being an asshole in the studio? - "Well, your father just disowned you. We understand." You're leaving your pregnant wife? - "Had you known, you never would have left."

Triple, you weren't just being cute, you were being downright adorable! I can get super competitive. Sometimes when I get caught up in an argument - and I want to be clear, I was arguing not "fighting" - I can go overboard. Anyway, I realized it later and had just finished updating/editing the post just before I saw your response. lol I was never angry, but I do think I got caught up in the "passion of my prose" (such as it is). It literally was just an exercise in hearing myself speak and the need to "win" a conversation. It's a bad habit. And I'm sorry. Honestly, I super don't give a shit if people make fun of Neil Diamond. I really don't care if people liked or hated this movie. I liked it, but not, like, that much. LOL

We know Neil Diamond was in his late Thirties, but do we know for sure that's how old he was supposed to be playing in the movie? If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that he's supposed to be in his late Twenties. I know Neil can't exactly pull that off, but it's not all that uncommon in Hollywood for people to play (sometimes much) younger than they actually are. (ETA: I have know idea where the audience member got his information, but if the terrorist attack Jess’ father is talking about is indeed the attack in Israel in 1967, and at the time of the attack Jess was - as his father puts it “playing in the street,” then it does provide some evidence that Jess is probably in his Twenties. However, it also implies that - unless Jess was playing in the street at 17 or 18-years old, he’s supposed to be even younger than I previously thought.) So imagine this: you're at the end of your Twenties, you've been married to the only S.O. you've ever been with (the one your parents picked out for you) since you were probably 19-years-old. You're at a crossroads in your life, you either accept that this is what your life is or you can try - one last time - for something more. You can't be in the middle any longer. I firmly believe that you owe it to yourself to take that shot. He invited Rivka to come along with him, but she turned him down. And, again, that's fine, that's who she is, but the music is who he is. Also, you should also consider that the showcase song is "Love on the Rocks." It's not something he writes during the course of the movie, it's a song already he's already written when the action begins. Why would he write such a depressing song about love gone sour? Look at these lyrics (spoiler alert: they weren't written by a happily married person) I don't think he wrote it because he hoped that one day some Billy Idol-type star might record it. I think it's more likely that it's statement about the state of his marriage. And maybe that's why it's so important to him that it's recorded correctly. Because, for him, it's something real and personal. Regardless of whether he goes to LA or not, their relationship was already doomed. The only question was whether it was going to end in divorce or years of bitterness and recriminations.

But just because they “were right” about him not wanting to come back to his dreary, passionless, life of emotional stagnation, doesn’t make it right for them to put a guilt trip on him and try to prevent him from achieving his dreams. I also wouldn’t say she was right about Molly since nothing happens until after they separate. While they were together, he was completely faithful to Rivka. See, this is where I think people are being unfair to Jess. When I was in High School/early College, do you know what I wanted to do more than anything else in the world? Marry my girlfriend. I loved her so much it hurt, you know? I was totally dopey, stupid in love with her and she with me. Do you know what I’m super glad never happened? Getting married to her. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll always have affection for her, but it’s a fucking blessing we didn’t stay together. Because even though we were fully in love with one another, we weren’t complete people yet. We were trapped by the bonds of love. And knowing how we both ended up (her a hardcore Christian Conservative and me a Progressive, un-religious, Liberal), we would have either made each other absolutely miserable, or would have - like Jess and Rivka - had to deny our fully actualized selves. So, yes, he separates from his wife, but isn’t that better for both of them in the long run? Their life goals are completely different. Like, when people break up, why does their always have to be a bad guy? Why can’t it just be that two people have grown apart or just plain shouldn’t be together?