Cameron H.

Yeah, I think I made a “HDTGM Classics” group or something and it worked fine.

When I hosted I Know Who Killed Me, I think it said that they don’t do private rooms anymore. I think you just have your room and send the link out for that. So, it’s private in the sense that it’s only people you invite, but it doesn’t necessarily prevent people from wandering in. I feel like Rabbit’s gotten real glitchy since they’ve changed everything up, too. I never used to have an issue with lag and now I get it all the time. Still, it’s the best way to do this.

I don’t have any particular objections. If we’re going to stray from the mandate, it would certainly be nice if it’s in support our hosts’ other endeavors.

I love Simon & Garfunkel too! Do you have a favorite song? I love “Leaves that are Green” And “Richard Cory”

I wanted to say the same thing. I hadn’t seen it in a long time and I actually raised my rating of it. At least a part of that was due to its present day relevance. I also agree that I noticed the movie being more critical of Benjamin, and that’s something I responded to as well. What I also liked was it made its point while still being entertaining. It never felt preachy or pedantic and left plenty of room for interpretation.

What I thought was interesting about the stage was that it was a perfect box which was basically how he described the office building at the beginning. I wondered if he was drawing a parallel between the two, but I ran out of time on my rental and couldn’t rewatch the scene to really compares.

We watched that two Halloweens ago. It might have been before your time

I agree that we’re just not going to see eye to eye on this and that’s fine. Sometimes that’s just how it goes. However, if I may, I guess my thing with “consensual” sex is that if either partner ever has any doubts, no matter what the reason, then it’s not 100% consensual. He can be attracted to her and enjoy having sex with and still not want to have sex with her. In fact, that’s a very common problem - especially among young people who are trying to figure their shit out. So if he says, “I don’t want to do this,” then that should be it. But it’s not. She uses his indecision and doubt to manipulate him.

I don’t see her as “villainous” exactly. Certainly not at that point in the movie. I think she’s a sad woman. And I think Ben is sad. The only reason I’ve been discussing any of this is because, as Grudlian stated, it wasn’t brought up in the podcast, and I agree with him that that is unfortunate as it’s definitely an angle worth being explored - especially as it relates to our contemporary context. There are layers and nuance going on in this movie, and painting any one character as either all good or all bad is pretty myopic. I’m just pointing out that her actions in the film do come off as predatory. As far as his fundamental beliefs and whatever, when he says “no,” that should be it. When he delivers the famous “You’re trying to seduce me line” she turns it back on him and embarrasses him, even though she knows that’s exactly what she’s doing - effectively taking control of the situation. Like, I’d have no issue if Mrs R went up to Ben and was like, “Yo! You DTF?” and he was like, “Yuppers.” But that’s not how it’s presented in the movie. I have an issue with trying to say the relationship is 100% consensual and no big deal when that’s not what the movie shows us. In fact, much of the first part of the movie is him debating whether what they’re doing is “right.”

And my point is, just because a person makes the call themselves at a later point, doesn’t mean they aren’t still being manipulated. It’s kind of like how the best conmen trick you into thinking that whatever they want you to do is your idea. She knows the state of mind he’s in and she knows what to do and what to say to get her desired result. No, she doesn’t rape him, but she definitely manipulates him into thinking something that he believes to be fundamentally wrong - something he has already said “no” to multiple times and even calls “gross” - might be okay. That’s not what he has always thought; it’s what she’s made him think. And when he starts to doubt it, she uses other tactics to keep him in line.

But what if I were to say, “Yes, her 40-year-old family friend locked her in a bedroom and exposed himself to her, but she’s 20! She knew what she was doing...” Him being 20 just makes it not statutory rape, and just because he calls Mrs. R doesn’t mean he’s not still being manipulated. That’s why she’s okay with letting him go the first time. She knows that he’ll call her. She’s counting on it. Also, I don’t think Ben necessarily is “of sound mind.” I’m not saying he’s crazy, but he is very much adrift and vulnerable. As far as power dynamics, no she isn’t threatening to not hire him for a job or anything, but she knows he’s a low frame of mind and knows that his family, and later Elaine, would be upset if they ever find out what’s going on. She uses his fear of discovery and their disapproval against him to get what she wants. And when he tries to assert control by telling Elaine what happened, she says he raped her.

Ding ding ding! 100%!!! She’s being forced BY HER PARENTS to marry the “make out king” to keep her away from Ben. The movie flat out states this. She doesn’t love Ben at all. She runs away with Ben to reassert control over her own life.

I would say that the movie is about how conforming to societal pressure and expectations often leads to unhappiness, but just because you rebel against conformity, doesn’t guarantee happiness either. We see this in the pressure Ben is under regarding school, career, and wife. Mrs. Robinson represents the decay of happiness by succumbing to this pressure (she got married because she got pregnant) and what Ben’s future might hold if he doesn’t take control.

Also, “Embrace the moments” isn’t exactly what I said. You had argued that because the movie dealt with marriage it wasn’t “aromantic,” and I replied: “Regarding marriage: As presented in the movie, I would say marriage is pretty aromantic. The Robinson’s marriage is a good example. Marriage is presented, not as an expression of love, but as an expectation and a responsibility. Elaine isn’t getting married to “the make out king” because she loves him, but because he’s pre-med and it’s a “good match.” She isn’t really in love with Ben either. She’s interested in him because he’s forbidden and it’s her taking control. And that’s where we leave them. With this kind of, “That was cool. Very fairy tale. But, um, I’m not sure, but I think we may have just fucked up.” It’s clear that when the movie ends that the drama is far from over. The bus won’t take them that far and there will still be repercussions. Like, she’ll have to get her marriage annulled. This could potentially go on for years - going back and forth. So, I guess you could say the movie is telling us to embrace those rare moments of control as they are fleeting.”

The scuba scene is another good example of Ben being coerced into a situation that he repeatedly says he has no interest in. I agree that the movie is absolutely aware of what it’s doing and what it’s trying to say.

I feel like your twisting my words around here. I’m definitely not suggesting you should embrace moments of sexual predation - and I think you know that. That’s ludicrous. He’s not necessarily literally called out by the characters, but the movie makes it clear that what he’s doing isn’t right. When he tells his parents that he’s going to marry Elaine, they’re excited...until he tells them he hasn’t even asked her. The movie also doesn’t show her welcoming him to Berkeley with open arms and the landlord straight up tells him “you’re weird and I don’t like you.” If the movie thinks he’s “right” then it wouldn’t keep calling attention to the fact that the other characters view his actions as strange.

I agree with everything you said, but to this point specifically, I liked how the movie opens with him on the airport people mover and ends with a long shot of him running to the church. Essentially, it shows the development of a directionless character being shuffled along to a character with purpose and making (literal) strides to achieve his goals. That doesn’t mean that what he’s doing is right, or that if he achieves his goal it will be lasting, just that through the course of the movie he gains focus.

But the way that comes across to me is: “But he’s so boring, why not sexually assault someone more exciting, nice, dynamic, and...wet?” I’m not even sure if we’re supposed to “get” why Mrs. R is into him. To try and justify the type a person a victim should be, or should be more like, feels strangely exploitive. I definitely see it as a predatory situation though. She sees a vulnerable person and takes advantage of that. She literally locks herself in a room with him, naked, after he’s told her -repeatedly- he’s not interested. I mean, do we really have to ask what that looks like with a gender reversal? And just because he goes back to her, doesn’t justify her actions. If anything, it just confirms that she has successfully manipulated a naive and clearly vulnerable person. Even after the fact, once he has the courage to say that what they are doing is wrong and gross, she passive-aggressively twists his words as if they were an attack on her personally. So much so that he actually ends up staying and apologizing to HER! That’s classic abuser/victim shit right there. And that all started because he had the nerve to try and talk to her and make it a real relationship. And, no, I don’t agree with the Elaine stuff either, but I also don’t view the movie as a romance. And I don’t believe the movie is making that case as it is constantly calling him out for doing the wrong thing. No one is in the right here, and it’s definitely not a happy ending.

Congrats on the new job! No worries! We’ll miss you, but hope you can make it next month. And never worry about not being around. You’re our friend! We’re just glad for the times you can be here

Thank you! I was about to ask for the context of “Why him?” I read that and I was thinking, “So only certain people get sexually assaulted?” I think the movie is very relevant from a #metoo perspective. A person of power takes advantage of someone and then spreads lies to discredit their accuser. His gender really doesn’t/shouldn’t matter.

You’ve never heard of Guac and Roll?

It will last, like, fornever.

I think that’s what makes me most hesitant about buying it. I just don’t think it’s going to be a fun watch. And, from a forum perspective, I think it’s going to be a lot of bad acting and visuals, which aren’t especially easy to comment on here. It’s further complicated by the fact that it’s a “true story.” Anything weird, continuity or logic-wise, that we’d usually speculate or comment on is going to be easily answered with a quick Google search. (“Did that happen? Oh, it did and here’s the context? Oh, okay. Cool ) Like, I think it’s going to be a fun episode to listen to, because they can get into the visual and acting stuff better than we can, but I suspect the forums are going to be pretty much tumbleweeds next week. Maybe not, but that’s my guess.

The crew returns to Chronos in an attempt to find fuel for their ship, but they quickly discover that Blake, and the Hodie, are harboring a dangerous secret. Will our intrepid adventurers get their Chromium? Will Elsa fist more aliens? Find out in the next installment of Voyage to the Stars!