Cameron H.

I suddenly feel compelled to say...

Alright, alright--I may just have to withdraw the point. You're all probably right, but it's certainly not how the scene is acted. She says "Hey, cheerleaders" before she even sees Louise. I'm just saying, if I were writing the scene (and God willing, I'll get the chance to do so one day), I would have had her enter the room, put down the boombox, and then pointedly look at Louise while delivering the line to underscore their exclusion of her. Regardless, I will say that those girls look they are having a hoot and a holler. It's just what I imagined the girl's locker room to be like. Pulling the sleeves of that girl's sweatshirt? Comedy. Gold. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNc7EPGpaRQ

Oh! I guess so... I thought it was just gym class, otherwise, why the Hell was Louise in there? Just to lurk? Also, the gang brought up the taking off of shoes in the Murder House, but I'd also like to point out, a number of girls in that locker room during the "I Like Boys" sing along weren't wearing any kind of foot protection either. Enjoy your athlete's foot and planter warts, ladies!

But you left out the best part of that quote. She comes in and says, "HEY CHEERLEADERS--I have a new cheer!" What kind of non-robot talks like that? It's like, "Hey, footballers--I have a new play!" or "Hey, lawyers--we've got another case!" Even this movie could do better. I used to be pro-Duckie, but I've recently come around on the whole debate. You both make excellent points, but I'd like to add, if she doesn't end up with Blane (BLANE?!?), what do we even take away from the movie? Poor folk and Rich folk should stay with their own kind? Furthermore, Ringwald shouldn't be Duckie's reward for being nice and liking her. I hate that whole, "Nice guys finish last" bullshit. You shouldn't expect to be "rewarded" a boyfriend/girlfriend for "just being nice." Being nice should be baseline. What else are you bringing to the table? Other than "nice," are you even remotely interesting? I mean, sure, Blane makes mistakes, but he's not a bad guy. Plus, he's stuck in the same social high school caste system as Ringwald. It is too his credit that he breaks free from that at the end of the movie. It's like if Romeo & Juliet ended happily.

Taylor Anne:

To be fair, Taylor Anne made that claim. I was arguing that homosexuality is a myth and Taylor Anne should stop kidding herself

How about this one? Louise, president of the Latin club, is mumbling Latin in the locker room. Polly: "What are you doing?" Louise: :"Oh, it's this new U2 song--it's an import." Wouldn't the better lie be, "Oh, I was just practicing some Latin pronunciations..?" Christ! This movie is dumb!

Obviously, there were a lot of lines in this movie that just don't make any sense, but personally, my two favorites (which I'll write to the best of my memory) are: 1) The drama teacher to Lousie: "I'm going on sabbatical--don't tell anyone!" Um...you can't just take a sabbatical and not tell anyone. What you're talking about is job abandonment. 2) Louise to Brad outside the first dance: "Did you know the closest star is four light years away? That means, if you were to wish on it, it would take eight years for it to come true." Is this movie saying that wishes obey the laws of physics? So, just in case anyone was wondering: wishes are real, measurable, and apparently, travel at the speed of light.

Thank you, Joel! I really do like to be able to provide evidence for my assertions.

Two things regarding her outfit to the first dance. First of all--I have to say--washed out, puke green is nobody’s favorite color. And secondly, if she was just going to change into her crazy tutu and novelty sunglasses at the dance, why even bother complaining to her father about her clothes? She’s nothing but a goddamn drama queen! AAAAAAND!!! Oh! Oh! Oh! At the play, she tells the lead actress to “break a leg,” crazy magic ensues, and the poor girl prompty breaks her leg—allowing Louise to take the lead. Correct me if I’m wrong, but couldn’t she have just gone over to the girl and said, “No, I think your leg’s just fine?” At the very least she could have dumped a glass of water on the poor girl. God! Luis Guzman is a real piece of shit!

I think you're missing the point of the movie. It is more important that the girls find boyfriends, no matter how douchey they are, then to resolve their silly friendship issues. This is evidenced by the fact Polly tells Louise, in reference to her rapist date at the first dance, "Be grateful--I had to come alone." That's right, movie; it's better to be with a sexual predator than to ever be caught alone at a dance. Also, while I'm talking about Polly, how come the popularity whammy doesn't affect her? Furthermore, am I to understand that the magic ingredient for popularity is a trip to the mall and some styling mousse? It seems to me like that would have been a much easier solution than dabbling in the Dark Arts.

I mentioned this in the mini-episode discussion, but....Where are the chairs? It's not like there's one right by the door! Or that her father looks directly at it... Oh...

Bless your heart, Taylor Anne...everyone knows "gay" wasn't invented until 1990.

While I was watching the movie, and they were trying out for the play, I picked up the line where Hatz says something to the effect of "You're not Louise right now; you're Ondine." I'm relatively well-read, so I was curious as to what play they were performing and who exactly this "Ondine" was, so I scheduled a quick consult with Dr. Wikipedia, and was pretty surprised by what I learned. Apparently, Ondine was a play by Jean Giraudoux and has more than a little in common with Teen Witch. In the play, knight-errant Hans (football player, Brad) is on a quest where he meets, and immediately falls in love with, a magical water-sprite named Ondine (Luis Guzman). The problem is that he is already betrothed to his "dark angel" Bertha (girlfriend Randa). Hans jilts his betrothed in favor of Ondine despite them coming from two different worlds (popular vs. unpopular). Eventually, after a period of time with Ondine, Hans deceives her in favor of his original betrothed (Brad's constant vacillating between Randa and Luis). Ondine vanishes (Luis declines Brad's invite to the dance), but later they meet up again where it becomes clear that Hans still loves Ondine (the final dance). It is important to note though, that in the play, the condition by which they are allowed to be together is contingent on Hans not deceiving Ondine. If he ever left her, it would mean his death. This is significant because, in Teen Witch, Brad does end up going to the dance with Randa. At the end of the play, Ondine, as a "creature from another world" is sentenced to death, and because he was not faithful to her, Hans is to die as well. As she is being led off to be executed, she is granted a magical boon. Since she ultimately used her powers for good, a spell is cast upon Ondine that at the moment of Hans' death she will forget him entirely, thus alleviating some of the pain of losing her Love. However, this also means that they will not be able to reunite in the After Life. They share a kiss and he dies. As the play ends, Ondine looks at the body of Hans at her feet and says, "What a pity! How I should have loved him!" It's simply tragic that this movie borrowed so heavily from the play Ondine, but failed to have the balls to follow it all the way through to the end. How epic would this movie have been if after the dance, as Luis is being led away to be burned at the stake, she sees the corpse of Brad on the floor and says, "He's so hot! I wish a guy like that would ask me to a dance?" At least then this movie could have a message other than, "being a shallow douche is cool."

I thought this exact same thing! Especially knowing that it was inspired by Teen Wolf, it all makes sense. Since it is implied that her powers is due to ancestry, I thought that it would follow, since they share the same bloodline, that her mother had the same powers. I definitely thought this is where the movie was going, especially when her father shows her a picture of her mother as an awkward teen--which I found to be a...questionable parenting technique. I thought her mother was going to represent a more balanced view of witchcraft as opposed to Serena's "gimmie-gimmie" attitude. I totally agree with you with the water, but it is actually (sort of) addressed, at least through Serena's implication. Basically, while her powers are weak and new, water will reverse it, but as she grows in her power, water will no longer have an affect on her spells. It took me a while to get that line, and I can't find a script online to confirm it, but I do believe it is in there. Until I caught that line though, I was very concerned for her teacher's trip to Aruba... I think it is also confirmed in this scene that the weird, rapey nerd she banishes to the Hell dimension will return--although, in my opinion, he probably deserves to stay there..

YAY!!!! The one that was soooooooo close to getting a smackdown from me recently was in The Apple thread, where it seemed a ton of people (maybe 2 or 3) couldn't wait to point out that the car in the movie looked like the one Homer made in The Simpsons. I was reading those like, "Someone said that ON THE EPISODE!!!" It's one thing to not read every post and just be redundant, but I find it a whole other kettle of fish altogether when people post without (evidently) even listening to the episode! Yeah, I'm not really a fan of that either. It's just not a great argument against, "Hey, people have already said that." Personally, I read everything everyone writes, and while I may scratch my head or disagree, I still try to show everyone the courtesy that is their right.

FIGHT!!!!!! But seriously, if I may arbitrate, I think we should all go easy on BertramCooper. He was only making a parenthetical aside to his greater comment that Louise was being played by an age appropriate actress. I don't think he was trying to claim her kinship to Blake Lively as some kind of monumental discovery of his own. It wasn't even really the point (I don't think) of Ellen's post--just an anecdote. I just don't feel that this is the same sort of breach of forum etiquette we've encountered vis-a-vis "the maxi-pad in the glove compartment/Jim Steinman wrote the songs/"that was the dude from Breaking Bad." It wasn't like he linked the same Buzzfeed article as Ellen M., and if you take his parenthetical out, he's still making a valid (totally separate) point. Let's all just be cool and save our ire for those who truly deserve it--"single digit posters" who complain about Live Episode sound quality and people who only post on the Main Episode thread with the same trivial fact as a bunch of other "single digit posters" thinking that they're the only ones who were smart enough to figure such-and-such out. So, in response to both posts: thank you Ellen for the link to the Buzzfeed article; and, yes, Bertram, that is pretty unusual to have a teenager actual play a teenager in a movie or show. And yes, her relationship with the lead male was all kinds of icky. This is one of the reasons I prefer not talking about the movie in the minisode thread. You all end up having great insights that I think would be better presented after the episode. I love you all! Kisses!

Hey gang, I need your help. Tomorrow morning, should I re-watch Teen Witch in preparation for the episode or should I watch Creed for the first time? I honestly can't make a decision.

My favorite part of that scene is that there's clearly a chair right in front of the door (as you walk in) covered in her clothes. I honestly couldn't tell if that was part of the joke or not.

Meant to edit and ended up double posting...oops.

All excellent points. I especially agree with your second point, which I guess was my "problem" (DISCLAIMER: not a real "problem"). If he was actually embarrassed by it, just don't answer that question; but if you do like it, say so. There's nothing wrong with that--certainly enough people agree with him. But when a person admits to liking something in a begrudging kind of way, you're tacitly giving less-enlightened people the ammunition to make fun of that thing. Which, in a way, makes the group that likes that thing "other" or "outside the norm." To use your example, if you like a Nickleback (or Ace of Base...) song, say so, don't hide it under a bushel. Rejoice in the things that make you feel good. There's no need to have a long conversation about it. If they give you shit, tell them it's a matter of opinion and move on. If they still just won't let it go, they're obviously dealing with much deeper issues and that relationship may need to be reevaluated. And to be fair, and with all due respect to Mr. Scheer, my gripe isn't actually with him or aimed at him, but more with the attitude of "closeting" people's interests. Day to day, there's just too much negativity and shittiness all around us. There are so many awesome things in the world to be absorbed and enjoyed. If I say confidently, "Hamilton is awesome!" there's maybe a remote chance it just might make someone who's never been into musicals take a minute to check it out. Maybe they like it, maybe they don't; but at least it's broadening their worldview in some small way. Best case scenario: maybe they see it and it inspires them to learn more about Hamilton or Washington (which could lead them on to other areas of interest), or better yet, maybe they are driven to write a musical of their own. There's nothing but positive gain, for everyone, from that. But if I say, "I can't believe I'm saying this...um, I don't normally like musicals, but Hamilton...it's okay..I mean, it's actually good...I'm blasting a musical in my car...that's weird, right? This is so embarrassing..." it doesn't do anything. It seperates. It says, "There's something wrong with this thing. This might be an exception, but overall, to like this thing is wrong." So in my own interminable way, I guess I'm saying, "It is better to embrace than divide." That said, and since you brought up Firefly/Whedon, it brought up something that I've been mulling over. A couple of weeks ago I re-watched Serenity for the first time in years. It's not without it's problems, but I had honestly forgotten how good it was. Once it was done, I felt the need to go back and re-watch Firefly, and Holy Christ, did that not hold up for me. I've never been a "browncoat" or anything, but I had always held it with some esteem, and like many others, always lamented its cancellation. But this time, out of the thirteen episodes, I had to straight up skip two of them (the one where he gets "married" and the one with the brothel) and many other times I just felt bored--I think I fell asleep during the "Mudder" episode. For the first time, I was like, "Oh yeah, I can see why this was cancelled." So, I have two questions: 1) What is something that you've always said/thought was great, only to revisit it later to discover it wasn't all that great at all? 2) Has there ever been a time when an external stimulus (no need to get too personal) has made you change your opinion on something you once liked? For me, I used to love SPONTANEANATION and looked forward to every episode. Then one day, I was listening to it (Ep. 37 "Salt Water Tuffy Shoppe") and everything just went to crap all at once--partly personal, partly work related. Everything was going nuts for me and I had these comedians shouting crazy shit in my ears and I just had to turn it off. I stayed subscribed until just this week, but I've finally given up. I tried to get back into it a couple of times, but I simply haven't been able to listen to a full episode ever since. It makes me sad, because I know it's a fantastic show, but even thinking about it takes me back to that moment and I just can't get back into it.

I would say the opening song for sure. After that, I'm don't really know. Everyone seemed to like the "Speeeeeeed" song, but I feel like one of the Mr. Boogalow numbers catches the insanity of the movie better. Of the two, I'd say go with "Show Business."

I'm looking forward to this one as well. I've never seen it, but it's been sitting in my Netflix queue since it was brought up on the show--and enthused about on the boards. It feels like it would be right in my wheelhouse for shitty movies. It's funny, I was extremely close to watching it this weekend just because. I'm so glad I have an actual reason to watch it now!

Oh, and for us Hamilton-heads, here's Lin-Manuel Miranda as a guestpert on My Brother, My Brother and Me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSyy3dP4a8M Also, for Hamiton and MBMBaM fans... http://twitter.com/l...319805163147264

Get out of my brain, Taylor Anne!!! I was just looking it up myself-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oNz5uruEpo