Any Conservative films deserve to be in the Canon?

[Threshold 93]

I think there was a thread from the old forum- but I re-listened to the Do the Right Thing episode in which they couldn't think of an example- especially recently.

 

I've heard people refer to The Dark Knight being a Conservative film- but I personally still am confounded by those claims- even though I wouldn't be surprised if Nolan was Conservative (I love him dearly)

[gene_shallot 79]

Would y'all file Objectivism under the 'conservative' category?

 

Because I know quite a few critics think Brad Bird's films have an Objectivist undercurrent (which I can kinda see, although I don't think it detracts from his movies). True or not, I'd love to hear an episode on The Iron Giant, Ratatouille or The Incredibles anyways.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

This depends on what you mean by "conservative"

 

Movies by conservative filmmakers are abundant: Mel Gibson, Clint Eastwood, and John Milius, obviously, but also John Hughes, Robert Zemeckis, and the Zuckers, among many others.

 

There are movies that overtly advance a conservative agenda -- "An American Carol" or any of the "Atlas Shrugged" movies -- and those are basically bad movies. I don't think they would merit much consideration, but that has less to do with politics than just terrible filmmaking.

 

But there are different grades of "conservative". Obviously, "Red Dawn" has a strong conservative viewpoint. But it's an entertaining, if not terrific movie. But then there's plenty of other militaristic movies that have a perceptively conservative bend: "American Sniper", "300", "Braveheart", "Zulu", arguably "Gladiator". I don't love these movies, but I think at least a few of them merit discussion.

 

Of course, that's not considering objectivist or other types of conservative art. I think there's plenty of material for discussion, some of which has already been discussed (Forrest Gump, the Passion of the Christ).

[Marsellus_H 118]

Conservative films that are canon-worthy is an interesting thought.... Let's see. Maybe Ben-Hur? I've got a soft-spot for the 1949 film The Fountainhead, although I don't think it's particularly conservative, more of a sappy drama. Also, I guess there could be a case for Ghostbusters, since the main villain is an over-regulating EPA guy.

 

I think with "Grand Budapest Hotel" there's already a pretty conservative film inducted into the canon.

[bri-witched 60]

The James Bond franchise is pretty conservative and Casino Royale made it in. A lot of horror films have a conservative edge to them too ("other" is scary, normal life is good, etc). I guess it depends on your definition of conservative-I consider films like Ghostbusters and Ferris Bueller to be right-wing but other people only consider blatant stuff like American Sniper to be conservative.

 

The Dark Knight reads as conservative to me because of the phone-tapping at the end-yes Batman allows it to be destroyed and Fox gives token protests against it, but it's still positioned as the "right" decision since it helped catch the Joker. I don't know other people's arguments for or against that however.

[mrm1138 32]

Rio Bravo comes to mind. It was conceived by Howard Hawks and John Wayne as a reaction to High Noon. Both of them were frustrated by the fact that Gary Cooper's character kept asking everyone in town for help instead of (presumably) manning up and taking care of it himself. Of course, Wayne's character in Rio Bravo is hardly alone, as he has two deputies (played by Ricky Nelson and Dean Martin) helping him from scene one.

[Threshold 93]

Would y'all file Objectivism under the 'conservative' category?

 

Because I know quite a few critics think Brad Bird's films have an Objectivist undercurrent (which I can kinda see, although I don't think it detracts from his movies). True or not, I'd love to hear an episode on The Iron Giant, Ratatouille or The Incredibles anyways.

Oh yeah! I guess objectivist is just a heightened version of bettering yourself to the nth degree. --Which is a conservative ideal, while being a usual narrative drive. I'm hoping it's just coincidence.

 

I think with "Grand Budapest Hotel" there's already a pretty conservative film inducted into the canon.

BUH???

I didn't even think!? What themes are conservative?

[Marsellus_H 118]

BUH???

I didn't even think!? What themes are conservative?

 

Well. It's nostalgic for idealized conservative-hierarchical structures in a lot of ways. The whole plot is basically set in a society that has to face change (war, communism) but doesn't want to. To me, the film's message was basically "look how bad it is that we had to change, when we could have just ignored society's problems and continued to live in a suger-coated dreamscape-bubble that is the Grand Budapest." The Grand Budapest basically can be red as Ronald Reagan's shiny city on a hill.

 

Then, there's Zero's work-ethics, which is very ideal towards this whole "Good stuff happens to hard-working people."

 

Also, I'd argue the fact that this film is much more in love with things than it is with peole, like the "Boy With The Apple" painting, or the hotel itself, speak for some pretty materialistic values.

 

In this sense its message can be red as conservative, in my opinion.

[Cronopio 127]

"A Man For All Seasons" is a great film with a conservative heart.

 

I think The Dark Knight is considered conservative because you have that "ends justify the means" approach to crime fighting, which you also find in "Dirty Harry" (maybe a canon-worthy conservative film as well?) - Batman tortures and engages in illegal surveillance whilst fighting an anarchist. In "The Dark Knight Rises" Nolan presents us with a world in which when you take away the police and the industrialists, the world descends into a chaotic reign of terror.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

I forgot to mention "Zero Dark Thirty" -- sanctioned by the CIA and definitely in keeping with the authoritarian bent, while simultaneously being an interesting and entertaining movie (at least in my opinion).

[SiSquires-Kasten 37]

Dirty Harry (a pro-fascist movie if there ever was one) is pretty Canon-worthy

[Threshold 93]

 

Well. It's nostalgic for idealized conservative-hierarchical structures in a lot of ways. The whole plot is basically set in a society that has to face change (war, communism) but doesn't want to. To me, the film's message was basically "look how bad it is that we had to change, when we could have just ignored society's problems and continued to live in a suger-coated dreamscape-bubble that is the Grand Budapest." The Grand Budapest basically can be red as Ronald Reagan's shiny city on a hill.

 

Then, there's Zero's work-ethics, which is very ideal towards this whole "Good stuff happens to hard-working people."

 

Also, I'd argue the fact that this film is much more in love with things than it is with peole, like the "Boy With The Apple" painting, or the hotel itself, speak for some pretty materialistic values.

 

In this sense its message can be red as conservative, in my opinion.

FUCK!

While it does reinforce those garbage ideals (accidentally I reckon)- I think true conservatives would shy away from a film with a bi-sexual Ralph Fiennes.

But yeah- damn!

 

But then there's plenty of other militaristic movies that have a perceptively conservative bend: "American Sniper", "300", "Braveheart", "Zulu", arguably "Gladiator". I don't love these movies, but I think at least a few of them merit discussion.

Interesting idea that kind of sprung from your list-

 

A progressive war film - that's not explicitly 'anti-war'

Does a good version of that exist? I can't even think now?...

[monsteriszero 0]

I think American Sniper and 300 both warrant discussion for the Canon, especially if films of Conservative bent are being talked about. American Sniper is the overall stronger movie (other than being an extremely generous/flat out inaccurate portrayal of its subject) but I think 300 qualifies for the Canon on the merits of it capturing something about the time it came out.

[Marsellus_H 118]

A progressive war film - that's not explicitly 'anti-war'

Does a good version of that exist? I can't even think now?...

 

Aren't progressive wars basically wars to push something forward, i. e. revolutions? Then, you'd have plenty of films to chose from: Battleship Potemkin, The Matrix, or maybe to a lesser extent, Snowpiercer.

[Rotmonian 15]

Dirty Harry

[RobertBoberts 62]

It seems that anything intentionally conservative would not be Canon-worthy while anything we suggest as Canon-worthy is only conservative because conservatives happen to like it. I love Brad Bird's animated features. I am familiar enough with Ayn Rand's writings to get the comparison but I think they lack the cruelty of her philosophy. I agree that if anything, Dirty Harry or maybe Death Wish.

[DerekHorneland 8]

Rio Bravo comes to mind. It was conceived by Howard Hawks and John Wayne as a reaction to High Noon. Both of them were frustrated by the fact that Gary Cooper's character kept asking everyone in town for help instead of (presumably) manning up and taking care of it himself. Of course, Wayne's character in Rio Bravo is hardly alone, as he has two deputies (played by Ricky Nelson and Dean Martin) helping him from scene one.

 

I would love a "Rio Bravo" v. "High Noon" episode!

[heavenstoetsy 17]

Scorsese's The Age of Innocence's ultimate message is "class structure and traditional social mores prevent us from accidentally destroying the Good because we really wanted to pursue the Beautiful, and the Beautiful would lose its power if we obtained it anyway," and that's a fairly socially conservative worldview. It's also a near-perfect adaptation.