Episode 78: BOYZ N THE HOOD

[RobertBoberts 62]

I do disagree about the prologue. I actually like how it shaped the characters as children first.

[JamesHill 5]

As a 17-year old black boy, seeing Boyz N the Hood for the first time was a pretty big deal for me -- very impactful. But recent viewings have revealed it to be a preachy, melodrama with a few good performances (you're right Devin). However, what was missing from the podcast was the fact that black audiences in the mid-late 80s CRAVED this kind of one-to-one representational movie that clearly spoke the frustrations of the community (you're right Amy). Combined with the rise of hip-hop, we felt like we finally had the national bull horn we needed so that's why Do The Right Thing, Jungle Fever, Boyz, etc. were less concerned with subtlety and more concerned with clearly enunciating the things we had all been talking about with each other for years.

 

That said, I don't want to knock Boyz all the way down because some of the on-the-nose moments actually rang true. I can't tell you how many times I've heard speeches about what "we need to do in the black community" that Furious Styles was clearly an avatar for.

 

Last thought, it just occurred to me that "Friday" is a better version of "Boyz N the Hood." It hits on the random nature of violence in South Central while creating compelling characters who are just living their lives (hilariously). Of course, there is the third act "guns make you a punk" complete with a "deep speech" but I think my theory holds true.

 

Anyway, great show. If you are looking to do more black films, please do 'love jones' -- it was the odd, boho antidote to hood films that I think still holds up today.

[porkysblackxmas 1]

 

Last thought, it just occurred to me that "Friday" is a better version of "Boyz N the Hood." It hits on the random nature of violence in South Central while creating compelling characters who are just living their lives (hilariously). Of course, there is the third act "guns make you a punk" complete with a "deep speech" but I think my theory holds true.

 

 

 

With regard to "Friday," maybe the most remarkable thing about "Boyz N the Hood" is how much more Ice Cube was able to do with this kind of material than Singleton, in two different mediums. Someone a ways back in the discussion alluded to the name-recognition of the movie's title as a reason to include it in the canon, but doesn't that have more to do with the Cube-penned Eazy-E song? I certainly don't think that there's a "Boyz N the Hood" movie, under that name or another, without the song (and Ice-T and the first NWA record, etc. etc.) coming first, and there are the movies others have mentioned that are better, or came earlier, or are otherwise more deserving of superlatives than this one--"Friday" certainly not being the least of them. (Though I'm loathe to forgive that awful "How's the writing of "Friday" coming, Ice Cube?" scene in "Straight Outta Compton.")

 

Anyway, I think the title actually does this film no favors, because it's got to share with one the seminal hip-hop songs, and one that depicts its milieu much more adroitly than the movie does. Put it this way: if you say "Eleanor Rigby," I'm not thinking of Jessica Chastain and James McAvoy before Lennon-McCartney.

[HoldenMartinson 221]

As a 17-year old black boy, seeing Boyz N the Hood for the first time was a pretty big deal for me -- very impactful. But recent viewings have revealed it to be a preachy, melodrama with a few good performances (you're right Devin). However, what was missing from the podcast was the fact that black audiences in the mid-late 80s CRAVED this kind of one-to-one representational movie that clearly spoke the frustrations of the community (you're right Amy). Combined with the rise of hip-hop, we felt like we finally had the national bull horn we needed so that's why Do The Right Thing, Jungle Fever, Boyz, etc. were less concerned with subtlety and more concerned with clearly enunciating the things we had all been talking about with each other for years.

 

That said, I don't want to knock Boyz all the way down because some of the on-the-nose moments actually rang true. I can't tell you how many times I've heard speeches about what "we need to do in the black community" that Furious Styles was clearly an avatar for.

 

Last thought, it just occurred to me that "Friday" is a better version of "Boyz N the Hood." It hits on the random nature of violence in South Central while creating compelling characters who are just living their lives (hilariously). Of course, there is the third act "guns make you a punk" complete with a "deep speech" but I think my theory holds true.

 

Anyway, great show. If you are looking to do more black films, please do 'love jones' -- it was the odd, boho antidote to hood films that I think still holds up today.

 

This is so important. I don't know if either host really addressed this--whether intentionally, or because neither thought to bring it up. But this is meant as a voice for a specific part of our culture. Even if it doesn't quite work as well as other films, the deeper you go with the context with this particular film, the clearer it is that, despite its quality, it is a canon film.

[ajgardner 6]

Hard no.

 

Boring film. Slack film making. Didn't like it the first time I saw it, maybe five years ago. Didn't enjoy it watching it in preparation for the Canon.

[bearisonford 2]

Yes.

 

Boyz N The Hood is relentlessly on the nose, extremely melodramatic, and does not age well from a technical standpoint, but it's cultural significance is extraordinary. The cast is great, and at the end of the day, I don't think it's melodrama or technical deficiencies get in the way of really interesting characters.

 

A lot of people have talked about how great Ice Cube and Laurence Fishburne are, but I'll defend Cuba Gooding Jr and say he has immense screen presence and there's a reason why he's worked steadily for the past 25 years.

 

I will say John Singleton is a garbage filmmaker and he really lucked out with this movie being half as good as it is. Higher Learning is one of the most heavy-handed, stereotypical movies I've ever seen.

[AlexChristianLovendahl 34]

...no.

 

Boyz N The Hood is a movie I kind of like for its themes and ideas, and I like Cube and Cuba, but I don't think it holds up as a canon movie. I'm comparatively small canon; even the idea that it could be an experienced film fan's favorite of '91 doesn't mean that I think it has to go in.

 

I also dislike the argument that "other movies have done the theme better," because it dangerously reaches toward the idea that we only need one black story in the Canon. It's similar to the argument that people "shouldn't watch The Danish Girl when we have Tangerine." We deserve more than one "hood movie" in the Canon.

 

But like most opinions I've heard of the still-unseen The Danish Girl(I loathe Tom Hooper,) I think that Boyz is simply not a good enough movie to make the cut. I honestly wish the "prologue" were far more of the movie; giving the childhood sequence more time and more weight would make it feel like an even companion to the adolescent section, and the latter portion touches on many themes without deeply exploring them. (How much more interesting is the Army theme if we acknowledge the idea that black men have too much risk of dying at home to guarantee getting shot at overseas?)

 

Between that and its lack of cinematic energy (we can talk smack about 2 Fast all day, but its intro and climax are wildly energized compared to this movie and 2 Fast's middle hour!) I think this falls short. Ice Cube is good, but not amazing; I save that word for rarities. Cuba is fine, but not especially good. Fishburne is charismatic, but barely acting! (He's far, far better in Spike Lee's School Daze, which Amy conveniently ignores.)

 

I also agree with Devin's characterization of this movie as reinforcing negative stereotypes. There was a lot of this movie to take in, but the example that stands out most forcefully is its depiction of the junkie mom. "I'll suck your ****" is a quote that's taken over depictions of addiction, and it really dehumanizes women and addicts to portray them so flatly. Maybe this is a real thing in junkie communities, but then take me into her life for a second or find an actor who can, don't just chastise her.

 

I do like this movie, mostly for what it says but also for Ice Cube. But it's probably not canon to me.

 

Oh, and someone above complained about the 80s saxophone; I loved that element. It gave the neighborhood a sort of neo-noir romanticism that allowed Fishburne's character to be momentarily believable as an Atticus Finch-style crusader while still carrying a gun.

[NathanGordon 1096]

If you had done a "versus" edition pitting this against MENACE 2 SOCIETY, I would have voted for MENACE.

Menace II Society is such a great and superior movie. I saw both of these films in the early 90s and liked them both with a general preference for Menace II Society.

Menace II Society did this so much better only two years later.

I have to add my voice to this chorus -- Menace II Society is THE great hood opera.

 

...

 

One of the biggest points of contention in nearly every episode of The Canon is if a film needs to be both cinematically significant and culturally important; Devin seems to argue for the former while Amy often sides with cultural relevancy. There are great, seminal works of art which are also flawed, especially when removed from their context or viewed in hindsight. Is Spike Lee a better director? Yes. Does Boyz N The Hood lack nuance? Sure. But the impact of this film in America cannot be understated. It's a landmark film and it can't be ignored as such, despite the amateur at times direction -- let's get real, though; this is an incredible accomplishment for a 22-year black kid in 1991.

[LanceHunter 7]

Originally voted this in, but then I re-watched the scene where Furious talks about gentrification. I noticed the billboard read "Seoul to Seoul Realty". Fuck that anti-Korean shit. Changed my vote to a No.

[MikeSellari 0]

I am a soft yes on BOYZ N' THE HOOD. I remember watching this and being really drawn in to the film. I think it's nuts though that Devin found this to be a profoundly bad movie when I could not stand Chiraq. This vote for a yes is mostly based on the fact that if Chiraq is in the cannon then the supremely better hood movie BOYZ N' THE HOOD must be included in the canon. Aside from the star launching careers and the slice of life of the time in which it came out, I think it needs to be in the canon.

[sjmills 0]

Don't badmouth Columbo.

[FredrickMaxwell 2]

When I saw Devin tweeting about watching Both the other week I suspected it was in preparation for an episode and I thought to myself "that's a definite yes". Since then I watched a movie that shifted my mind; Don't Be A Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood. The ease at which Don't Be A Menace spoofs Boyz by playing scenes straight from the film and just having a character shout "message" speaks to how blatant the film is.

 

Another thing that shifted my opinion was Devin's argument about the speeches in the film and how they all feel fake. Take He Got Game for example, it has a really in your face speech scene but it presents it so theatrically that it sells it. Here it just feels like people not talking like people.

 

While Furious Styles is one of my favourite characters of all time this is a soft no for me.

 

DON'T BE A MENACE TO SOUTH CENTRAL WHILE DRINKING YOUR JUICE IN THE HOOD may be my favorite Wayans film for that very reason. The whole thing makes a point to punch through any sort of ham-fisted pandering that they saw in some of the "urban" "message films" they saw, at the time.