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taylorannephoto

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Everything posted by taylorannephoto

  1. Then I believe your points are getting muddled because I feel like I've read "My point is..." a million times and it seems like a different point each time. It's either that Stephanie meant it to be taken a different way than intended, then it's that the series is getting dog-piled on, then it's that it should be taken as a whole not isolated moments. So now I'm very confused as to what we're actually discussing here. I didn't mind that we all disagreed about Stephanie's intentions and whether or not it mattered because outcome outweighs intention, but once you started then claiming that those that followed this series like gospel were dumb because dumb people will be dumb, it felt important to bring up that hi hello I was one of those dumb kids and this is why it's important to talk about this series being toxic. Then you mentioned that people are always railing on this and not other things, but that shouldn't even have any baring on this very specific conversation since it's literally related to the movie we just watched. This is where I started to feel dismissed, because at that point it didn't seem to matter what any of us said because you had already stayed in your thought that it was only because it's easy to pick on, and I felt like you weren't actually taking in anything that had been said about the experiences. I mean you literally said that the arguments lacked substance which was wild to me and made me feel absolutely like there was almost little point to even discussing this further because at that point then I guess literally nothing I brought to the table mattered. So then later when you brought up the fans being dismissed I had to comment on that because literally I was that fan, and I have the proof of following the phenomenon from one end to the other (I stayed up all night to try and meet Robert Pattinson at a god damn MALL... didn't work). Basically as a female representative of this fandom, I'm literally telling you that this conversation went down a terrible rabbit hole and I felt incredibly awful by last night. Like I still don't mind that you saw something different in these books/movies, but since the target demo was teenage girls and that was me, I'm just asking that you respect that maybe what I saw and what I experienced has a little more weight behind it. Also I know that I said that was the last thing I was going to say, but y'all should know me well enough by now that that never happens LOL. ETA: If I did put words in your mouth I do apologize for that. It's definitely harder to read tone and when things are a bit confusing it's absolutely possible to think one thing when you meant something different.
  2. This is the last thing I'm going to say about this topic because I feel like we're talking in circles here, but WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWILIGHT BECAUSE THIS IS A TWILIGHT THREAD! Should we watch Pride and Prejudice and nitpick that? Would you like to go through other examples? Cause right now I don't give a shit about any other examples that prove as to why we should all stop and just let this happen. You can claim that people shit on Twilight over and over because it's an "easy target" but then I guess we shouldn't have watched this movie to begin with if you didn't want us to pick out the things we find problematic about it.
  3. But no one here is doing that. We all happen to have very specific feelings about this series, and I don't see the point in going against them because you think it's not well thought out. You're speaking to us as if we're all in the same boat of those who rag on the fans online and dismiss them (mostly because of their gender). I'm here telling you I was one of those fans and that I feel my feelings on this very popular book series are being dismissed literally right now.
  4. I thought y'all would find this funny as my friends and I continue to discuss this now lol! There's a lot of evidence to this point exactly on my early Facebook feed and it is the most embarrassing shit ever.
  5. Fair and valid. People usually yell about anecdotal evidence when they're hearing something second hand so I'm very used to it only being used in that sense. I promise this isn't second hand info lol.
  6. Idk I still don't think I agree with that solely because these two still end up together. Sure they grow, but that's their perfectly structured fictional relationship and I still think it's setting women up for something not right, because men aren't Edward and they're not going to get their fairy tale ending. I think she's packaging the whole "oh don't worry if you see red flags, girls, he'll grow because of you and change!" and selling it to teenagers. I legit asked my friends cause I'm still in the same friend group from high school and they just answered that while they didn't think it was normal behavior they definitely didn't think it was either alarming or creepy at all. Actually one of them just got her masters in psychology and said her supervisor at her clinic uses it as her "bad relationship" example with her teen clients. She said quote, "Every girl is like oh I thought that was just how it always is." I still am not saying it's all Twilight's fault, but because of the fact that it is so huge it definitely has more reach than other examples, especially since it's there specifically for teenage girls. ETA: Also, while I disagree with Meyers intentions, to me none of that matters anyway. She could legit wanted us all to see that, but the point is teen girls are seeing Edward as romantic. They are seeing these actions become normalized. They are falling into dangerous situations because they saw it played out in front of them. Call it dumb people being dumb all you want but when it's enough girls for therapists and counselors to actually reference it, then it's more than that.
  7. Yeah I'm a badass now. Imagine me back in the day though. Ugh wildly annoying LOL! No but seriously, this is an interesting topic to discuss and it brings up a lot of points of whether or not fiction has any responsibility for what it portrays, and to me I think it does. I think back onto how Whoopi Goldberg never would have become who she was if she hadn't seen Nichelle Nichols on TV, or how even Nichelle wouldn't have taken that job if MLK Jr hadn't called her and told her how important she was going to be for black kids all across the nation. I think about how much someone like Tess Holliday actually being a plus sized woman gracing the cover of Cosmo would've blown my fucking mind if I had seen it as this chubby girl in high school seeing nothing but stick thin "heroin chic" bull shit and hating my own body. It's the same as to why we see men taking the wrong message from Travis in Taxi Driver, and it's why I took the wrong message from something like Twilight and some other things I had been reading and watching at the time and let myself be taken down the path of toxic relationships because that's what appeared normal. Like, obviously we can't all blame it on Twilight, cause listen I'll keep it 100 that my parents were not the beacon of "True Love" and I have some major trust issues from them lmao, but I do think that authors/screenwriters/showrunners/directors do have to take some of the responsibility for perpetuating ideals that are more harmful than good. No one is perfect, yes, but if we don't call out shit then nothing will change.
  8. Alright, I see what you're saying now, but I think what we're getting hung up on here is the fact that we are indeed talking about Twilight specifically in this instance, so obviously it's going to be our punching bag. If we were going over Hunger Games I would talk about fucking Liam Hemsworth's character who's name I keep forgetting as the other epitome of WAH FRIENDZONED AND FUCK HER CHOICES RAH! And I would have to say that this isn't just anecdotal evidence. I lived it. There's truly a difference in people being stupid and thinking they can fly, and then the representation of men and women and hetero relationships effecting the youth. Also, I'm not sure any of us were saying that these problematic flaws are the reason why we don't like these films/books (for me at least I can't speak to anyone else that has chimed in). In fact, before I recognized the problematic nature to this relationship I had realized they just weren't good lol. That's not the point I think any of us were trying to make. It's just that we happened to watch the last movie (which I actually really enjoyed) and were pointing out the things we don't like about this series now.
  9. These are excellent points. Also, I think that for a lot of stuff that has been held so highly we're truly just now seeing it for what it really is. I mean I legitimately didn't think of Taxi Driver as problematic until the last two years, again because I think it just wasn't taught to us that way and we're all slowly realizing it. And Twilight just happens to be the thing made specifically for teenage girls that blew the fuck up and became a phenomenon that also happens to have some not okay stuff that even I didn't really was not okay until I was in my 20s, well after I had read the books and digested all the material.
  10. I think it's very interesting you brought these two up and I understand why. You'll have to point me to where people were saying that those who love the books were trying to specifically emulate Bella because I do think I missed the start of that topic, because my point is just teaching girls what is acceptable behavior when it comes to a relationship. But with these two and Twilight together - one was definitely viewed as bad (hence why the two parter series finale made it onto HDTGM) and the other two are seen as literally the best of the best (hence why they are being covered on Unspooled instead), and I do think that goes to the points you made in your next paragraph that there is this animosity towards fiction directed wholly towards females. However, I'm not seeing as to why that means none of the criticisms have any substance? I have the same issues with Twilight that I do with ACWO and Taxi Driver because no matter the intentions of the artists behind the works, the outcome is the same, shitty people doing shitty things because of the media they are digesting.
  11. Okay, but as a 16 year old in this time I can wholeheartedly say that teenage girls are stupid enough to eat this shit up and wish dudes would act like that. It's a fairy tale, but when fairy tales are some of our only representation of teenage romance, then that's all we start to see as truth. This is the problem with stuff like that. Until we can get proper stuff in front of kids' eyes then we can't actually chalk this up to just being a fairy tale and therefore none of it is accurate. Edward is still supposed to be a 17 year old, and so it does teach girls that these actions are okay from men, because they saw Edward do it. Like I promise you I'm writing this all from genuine experience. It took going through extremely toxic relationships and growing up to realize those actions are not okay, because no one told me otherwise.
  12. Same 100% He's on the same train as a lot of fictional men with the whole "SHE FRIENDZONED ME AND I WILL NOT RESPECT HER CHOICE RAAAAAH!"
  13. I don't think she's saying that Bella is to be emulated, no, but she is painting this romance as True Love, and everything that Bella does in response to this True Love or how Edward treats her in the beginning under the guise of True Love, is terrifying and problematic af. She may call it out to some degree, but she never stands with that calling out in my opinion. Edward full on stalks her, breaks into her home, and watches her while she sleeps and even when Bella first begins to think there's something wrong with that idea it's not because it's creepy and a giant RED FUCKING FLAG it's because she is starting to catch on that he is a vampire, and after that it's pushed aside as anything other than his loving and protecting nature.
  14. I do also think it has something to do with this desire for someone to come and save us from our boring lives. Everyone wants to be the kid under the stairs that suddenly finds out he's a wizard, or wants to be the One girl this vampire falls in love with, cause then it means there's more to life then whatever boring shit you have to deal with day to day lol.
  15. It's a really good question. Like at least with Magic Mike or 50 Shades of Grey there's this like almost housewife-esque aspect that it is catering to more so than the obvious teenage demo that things like Twilight are trying to get to.
  16. She did a made-for-Showtime movie pre-Twilight based off a book I LOVEEE called "Speak" that she's genuinely amazing in with Steve Zahn. You wouldn't think reading those two names together would prove for quality but it's this gorgeous little indie movie about a teenage girl dealing with the aftermath of being raped and it's beautifully told. Zahn plays her art teacher that helps her find her outlet to express all of her feelings.
  17. The fight is in the last book but it's also a Non-Fight Fight. Meaning Alice sees how it went down and shows Michael Sheen and you think while reading it that it's actually happening but then lmao nah. I've mentioned before that when these came out I was the EXACT age they were intended for. I was 15 when Twilight was first released so my friends and I ate it The. Fuck. Up. But it wasn't until Breaking Dawn came out when we were all 18 that we finally realized there was something wrong with the series. Looking back on it now, especially now that the movies are out, it's incredibly toxic, and I would say that I disagree with Cameron that New Moon improves on the toxicity, because the amount of times she puts herself near death for a man really is a terrifying message for 16 year old girls to be reading/seeing. But honestly I tried to re-read the books to see if I was still right that they were a good read, and no... they weren't. I couldn't make it through the first chapter again after having the veil pulled from my head lol. This is a terrible story LOL.
  18. And more importantly: Never getting laid
  19. Oh SNAP! You C&O'd my C&O while we are in the C&O!
  20. I have to C&O your post real quick because that Freaky Friday is iconic for my generation and it was most definitely Jamie Lee Curtis.
  21. My dad died while in high school and about 3-4 months later (I went through a big haze the semester following and can't keep track of what happened when) I was really depressed and a friend asked what was wrong and I obviously replied, "I'm just really sad about my dad," and she said, "Hasn't it been long enough?" (I now can't even remember the exact quote but I definitely remember thinking "she's right I should shut up about it." IT WAS ONLY 3-4 MONTHS LATER.) Your son has way better friends lol.
  22. taylorannephoto

    All the President’s Men

    I agree with you up to a point. I did see Spotlight first and this absolutely had me wanting to rewatch it, because I could see the influence this movie had on those creators, however I would think that they both could stand the test of time and live on the AFI in harmony with one another. I know that we have obvious limited space, but if we can have a million Scorsese or Spielberg films, then I think having both All The President's Men and Spotlight can be possible.
  23. I would love for Cam to read this book only now and see how he feels.
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