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Episode 136 — Black Metal


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#1 Earwolf Admin

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:00 PM

Andrew Ti & this week’s guest Jen Wang get familiar with the music genre that is Black Metal. Cut that racist shit out and leave us a message at (323) 389-RACE.

#2 .....

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:06 AM

"Don't be a fan of something because other fans are shitty people" is such an empty 14 year old hipster mentality

#3 Jeff MacDonald

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:17 AM

I gotta pipe in here as Andrew and Guest (and Frank) all said they don't really know what Black Metal is. It is a genre of metal that is mostly defined by the musical style (shrieking vocals, blast beats, progressive song structures, often with synth) as well as its lyrical themes (evil, demonic, mythical, etc.) but is definitely not defined by the few neo-nazi bands in the black metal scene. To say that black metal is racist is exactly the same as saying punk rock is racist. The large majority of it is not racist (although it is generally played by people with near to albino complexion). Now black metal is definitely not friendly music and I would say is extremely anti-christian so there are definitely some prejiduces related to the music, but racism is not one of them.

#4 JamesCrackCorn

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:59 PM

Brian Posehn is a fan of the band Skeletonwhich (http://www.hellbound...funny-than-you/), which is defined by Wikipedia and the metal archives as a black metal band, so obviously Brian Posehn is a racist.

Yo, am I racist for listening to his Earwolf Network podcast?
Are the friends Brian Posehn hosts his show with racist for not ditching their friend even after he publicly labelled himself a black metal fan and, by effect, a racist?

#5 Hyde Parker

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:06 PM

View PostJamesCrackCorn, on 24 April 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Brian Posehn is a fan of the band Skeletonwhich (http://www.hellbound...funny-than-you/), which is defined by Wikipedia and the metal archives as a black metal band, so obviously Brian Posehn is a racist.

Yo, am I racist for listening to his Earwolf Network podcast?
Are the friends Brian Posehn hosts his show with racist for not ditching their friend even after he publicly labelled himself a black metal fan and, by effect, a racist?

Yes, probably. But there are multiple instances in the Comedy Bang Bang archives where ethnic slurs, accents, and stereotypes are used to comedic effect so I guess Ti is also racist by association.

#6 president cage

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:30 PM

Why do we need to track southern rednecks when we can see massive ignorance on display on the Earwolf Network by Andrew Ti and Jen Wang? This episode was wack as fuck.

#7 Hyde Parker

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

I'd like to see this week end with an episode on whether bourgeois, Asian-American web-literati who adopt hip-hop personae to host the podcast equivalent of social justice tumblr blogs are racist or can be racist according to whatever unnamed prejudice/power scale those of us following along at home are expected to grasp and respect.

#8 Kristopher Mills

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:13 PM

I expected this to get a big response. What a stupid answer to the callers question. That's like saying since some rap fans are gangsters and kill people, don't listen to rap. Silly goose

#9 dlo burns

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:38 PM

View PostJoshie, on 24 April 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

"Don't be a fan of something because other fans are shitty people" is such an empty 14 year old hipster mentality


Right, this. I hate the idea of throwing an entire genre to the racists and giving them the power to take things over and perpetuating stereotypes. There is a kind of justification with associating black metal with neo-nazism because Varg Vikernes is such a central figure to the whole myth, but that fuckhead only started spouting Heil to get attention after he got locked-up. On the other end of the spectrum there are many (if not exponentially more) bands who ideologically align with anarchy, communism, and other far leftist philosophies*. Also metal is so spread out across the world like hiphop it's a disservice to the PoC fans (like these guys, or these dudes) to call it racist. I just picked, up but haven't gotten around to reading, What Are You Doing Here by Laina Dawes which is an autobiography of a black woman in the metal/punk scenes and the crap she gets from in and out.

One of my favoritest dudes in the world, Caller of the Storms from Blasphemy, has put up with racist bullshit for the last twenty years but has never let it drag him down. One of the stories is that he was getting off stage and some drunken little fuckhead ran up spewing slurs and death threats, so Caller just gave him one solid punch in the chest, which was so hard it gave the idiot cardiac arrest (supposedly he survived, sadly).

*of course it's exceedingly difficult to give a political discourse over screams so most just sing about blood and forgotten elder gods.

#10 Hyde Parker

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:02 PM

Admittedly, no one should be listening to metal after he turns fifteen, but racial attitudes espoused by a minority of its fans have little to do with that.

Gotta hand it to Ti, though. If he's out to issue blanket dismissals of anything tangentially related to, used, or enjoyed by racists he's really expanded his options for future episodes. I'm looking forward to topics like "Opera," "The Internet," and "Books," in particular.

#11 Kevin Irmiter

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:39 PM

View PostJoshie, on 24 April 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

"Don't be a fan of something because other fans are shitty people" is such an empty 14 year old hipster mentality


I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say there is a difference between liking something and being heavily into the scene for something. To take skinhead punk as an example: if you just like the genre's music, and only listen to that, and only go to the concerts of one or two bands that aren't racist, and aren't an active member of the community, that's one thing. But if you're an active, hardcore, skinhead punk you pretty much have to be associating with racists on a regular basis. That should turn you off no matter how much you love the music.

Of course this doesn't address the question of whether it is accurate to label black metal as "racist" overall. I'm not going to say for sure because I'm not an expert on the matter either, but it looks to me like Andrew is totally wrong.

#12 JamesCrackCorn

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:22 AM

I don't understand why Andrew would take this caller if he doesn't know anything about the topic and refuses to do research. If racism is to be treated with the gravity it deserves, calling somebody racist should be a serious charge. Andrew routinely calls people and things racist without conducting even cursory research. This is wildly irresponsible.

#13 Shariq Torres

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 05:30 AM

View PostHyde Parker, on 24 April 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Yes, probably. But there are multiple instances in the Comedy Bang Bang archives where ethnic slurs, accents, and stereotypes are used to comedic effect so I guess Ti is also racist by association.


That's impossible, because you don't find those things to be racist, and you would be the first to say someone is being "overly sensitive and "can't take a joke" if they called people on some of the shit that goes on around here. Don't trot it out now as way of making a point for your silly argument.

#14 Shariq Torres

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 05:44 AM

So, here's the thing with ep and this why all of you are so butthurt over it. Andrew is using the same standard that the mainstream culture judges other minorities by. Other minorities are ROUTINELY grouped together and held responsible for actions that they didn't commit. Every Muslim has a target on their back because of what a few people did. Every black person has a target on their back because of the actions of a few. Someone earlier made an analogy to people stereotyping gangsta rap, WHICH THEY ALREADY DO. Trayvon Martin's character was assasinated because he wore baggy jeans and listened to hip-hop. Apparently, this was enough for a LARGE segment of the population to feel that he was up to no good anyway and that Zimmerman did the world a favor by killing him.

But what is funny, is that when the standard is applied to you, or to something that you like, then all of a sudden it becomes unfair. Then all of a sudden, the common sense saying, "one bad apple spoils the bunch," and "you are the company you keep" don't have any meaning. I'm not buying it and I'll tell you why.

Every time a person of color says something is racist, there are always a large number of white people that will attempt to dissuade them from their position. They say things like "its in your head," "no one thinks like that," "you're being too sensitive," blah, blah, blah. But how can you, any of you who posted on this board, say that when Andrew is giving you the same mainstream treatment that has been given to minorities for decades? Its not really congruent, ya see? You can't really go around trying to downplay racism while at the same time bristling when those racist societal standards are turned on you.

#15 Shariq Torres

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 05:47 AM

View Postdlo burns, on 24 April 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

I just picked, up but haven't gotten around to reading, What Are You Doing Here by Laina Dawes which is an autobiography of a black woman in the metal/punk scenes and the crap she gets from in and out.


So, let me get this straight, this open, embracing community of leftists had a problem with a black woman going to shows and hanging out? And this is not supposed to be racist....just because?

#16 Shariq Torres

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 05:53 AM

View PostJamesCrackCorn, on 24 April 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Brian Posehn is a fan of the band Skeletonwhich (http://www.hellbound...funny-than-you/), which is defined by Wikipedia and the metal archives as a black metal band, so obviously Brian Posehn is a racist.



You say this like it is a bygone conclusion that he isn't. You don't know Brian Posehn in his personal life; you're not going to dinner parties at his house. You don't know him at all.

#17 JamesCrackCorn

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:07 AM

View PostShariq Torres, on 25 April 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

So, here's the thing with ep and this why all of you are so butthurt over it. Andrew is using the same standard that the mainstream culture judges other minorities by. Other minorities are ROUTINELY grouped together and held responsible for actions that they didn't commit. Every Muslim has a target on their back because of what a few people did. Every black person has a target on their back because of the actions of a few. Someone earlier made an analogy to people stereotyping gangsta rap, WHICH THEY ALREADY DO. Trayvon Martin's character was assasinated because he wore baggy jeans and listened to hip-hop. Apparently, this was enough for a LARGE segment of the population to feel that he was up to no good anyway and that Zimmerman did the world a favor by killing him.

But what is funny, is that when the standard is applied to you, or to something that you like, then all of a sudden it becomes unfair. Then all of a sudden, the common sense saying, "one bad apple spoils the bunch," and "you are the company you keep" don't have any meaning. I'm not buying it and I'll tell you why.

Every time a person of color says something is racist, there are always a large number of white people that will attempt to dissuade them from their position. They say things like "its in your head," "no one thinks like that," "you're being too sensitive," blah, blah, blah. But how can you, any of you who posted on this board, say that when Andrew is giving you the same mainstream treatment that has been given to minorities for decades? Its not really congruent, ya see? You can't really go around trying to downplay racism while at the same time bristling when those racist societal standards are turned on you.


I think you raise an interest and valid point about minorities being unfairly grouped together. I don't dispute that that is a problem. However, nobody here has posted anything opposing that. I, and others her, have taken issue with Andrew applying the flawed logic to all fans of particular brand of music. Nobody said that that logo should only be applied to minorities.

I think that everything you posted on this thread about the treatment of minorities is well thought out and supportive. I think you put more time in constructing your post than Andrew does in his show. The point that I tried to make is that Andrew is an irresponsible douche nozzle

#18 president cage

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:46 AM

View PostShariq Torres, on 25 April 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

So, here's the thing with ep and this why all of you are so butthurt over it. Andrew is using the same standard that the mainstream culture judges other minorities by. Other minorities are ROUTINELY grouped together and held responsible for actions that they didn't commit. Every Muslim has a target on their back because of what a few people did. Every black person has a target on their back because of the actions of a few. Someone earlier made an analogy to people stereotyping gangsta rap, WHICH THEY ALREADY DO. Trayvon Martin's character was assasinated because he wore baggy jeans and listened to hip-hop. Apparently, this was enough for a LARGE segment of the population to feel that he was up to no good anyway and that Zimmerman did the world a favor by killing him.

But what is funny, is that when the standard is applied to you, or to something that you like, then all of a sudden it becomes unfair. Then all of a sudden, the common sense saying, "one bad apple spoils the bunch," and "you are the company you keep" don't have any meaning. I'm not buying it and I'll tell you why.

Every time a person of color says something is racist, there are always a large number of white people that will attempt to dissuade them from their position. They say things like "its in your head," "no one thinks like that," "you're being too sensitive," blah, blah, blah. But how can you, any of you who posted on this board, say that when Andrew is giving you the same mainstream treatment that has been given to minorities for decades? Its not really congruent, ya see? You can't really go around trying to downplay racism while at the same time bristling when those racist societal standards are turned on you.


So you're okay with all groups of people being generalized about because of the actions of a few or of one, or you're just happy when it happens to white people? You have two arguments running here that contradict one another.

#19 moochie

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:49 AM

If I may say this, Fuck the logic they leap to without any research or knowledge of the topic. he would rant for days if someone said every rap fan was a {Insert whatever bad thing here}. You can't let a vocal minority set a sterotype for the rest of a group.
Just becuse the only exposure you have to something is bad, it doesn't mean every in that group is bad. Ti is using the same logic that a lot of the poeple he is making fun is using, " well I have only seen this person do this, so everyone else in this group is the same." Come on Ti, get your shit together and make any effort at all. You are at your best when you know what you are talking about.

#20 Shariq Torres

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:11 AM

View Postpresident cage, on 25 April 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:


So you're okay with all groups of people being generalized about because of the actions of a few or of one, or you're just happy when it happens to white people? You have two arguments running here that contradict one another.


No, I have one argument that makes perfect sense. People who try to silence/derail/minimize others for speaking out about racism and racist stereotypes don't get to complain when the power of stereotyping is turned on them.