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That was a really great conversation that I've read between all of y'all. I honestly don't have anything else to add (yet lol) because I feel like Cameron and Grudlian really captured my feelings exactly. I forgot that I wanted to mention that I haven't seen this movie in quite some time, definitely it was before the Me Too movement started, and at the time I loooved this movie. Legit understood the hype and why it was one of the most talked about, and most quoted movies of our time, but now thinking back on it I really don't think this holds up as well under a new societal light. Even when I loved it at the time (genuinely think I saw this in college and it's already been 8 years since then) I can't say that I really thought about it much at all after about a year out from seeing it. It's one of those movies that I think you see and may fall in love with and then just like Elaine and Ben in the back of that bus you kinda lose that excitement and stop smiling about it. Originally I voted that this shouldn't be on the list, just because I think there are now better movies that can cover similar topics while also making better and more clear statements about the main protagonist, but I'm kind of waffling on that gut reaction. I do still like this movie, but I also know that I don't have the same feelings about it as I did when I was younger.

I think up until that moment she would've been fine doing whatever it was her parents told her to do, despite that not being what she wanted. It could've been literally any man banging on that window for her to stop and she would've run off with them.

I find it so funny that never once does anyone ever ask Elaine what she wants. Her parents force her into this relationship to keep her away from Ben as if Ben gets final say on ending up with Elaine in the first place. If I were her parents I would've been like, "Hey this dude is expressing interest in marrying you, are you cool with that? No? Oh okay then carry on with your life and we'll call the police if he ends up stalking you all the way to your college campus."

I don't believe that she truly chooses him at the end, nor is it quite as ambiguous as we all think. In my take of the movie - Elaine is just choosing to not get married in that moment, not necessarily Ben. He just happens to be the person that is there giving her a vision of outside of that church and she takes it in that moment, but then you see them going from smiling and happy in that bus to completely sullen and unable to look at each other. Neither one of them want to actually end up with the other and that relationship knows it's going to be doomed if they continue on.

I completely agree, and my issues are just the lack of acknowledging the fact that Mrs. Robinson is definitely a predator in this situation. Doesn't mean this movie shouldn't be made, but we gotta talk about it. Also yeah there's no way this movie intended that take to be actually taken lol.

"An eventual yes is not what someone should be striving for" I have to quote myself real quick, because this is exactly what Benjamin does to Elaine too. He is the prey that eventually becomes the predator and maybe this whole thing is really a commentary on how people that go through traumatic events themselves think of that as normal and reproduce the scenario with someone else.

I've got the episode in my queue but it hasn't hit yet, but I'm really disappointed to hear this because this is exactly what I was hoping wouldn't happen. Mrs. Robinson absolutely takes advantage of him and we have to recognize every kind of predator no matter what in order for all victims to be taken seriously. It's been quite some time since I've first seen this movie, and in my memory Benjamin does consent to Mrs. Robinson, but as Grudlian says - he says no to her every step of the way before that. An eventual yes is not what someone should be striving for and looking onto this film with modern eyes does completely make it a gross movie (even taking out the fact that it stars Dustin Hoffman). It's one of those things where at 20 Benjamin thinks nothing of his encounter with Mrs. Robinson and then at 40 he has a mental breakdown over repressed trauma over the situation.

Lbr we all would've taken any performance over Casey Affleck that year, but truly Viggo was my best actor pick in that movie and I'm still mad it didn't get as recognized as it deserved.

$4 isn't terrible like I was imagining but I'm definitely not owning this lol.

Me, every time a movie gets chosen that is not available to stream or even rent for relatively cheap:

I mean I'm still allowed to think a person is terrible for my own reasons and I'm pretty much done with that side of the conversation, however I wanted to point out that Gunn didn't get fired for the homophobic blog post he had made in 2011 he was fired for the pedophilia tweets that were "jokes" from 2009. He never apologized for those tweets and every time he claimed he had he pointed to his apology for the homophobic blog post. That one is tricky for me because I've actually never liked James Gunn (I think his ego is the size of of a planet and he is very dismissive and I actually had a terrible exchange with him), and anyone that likes to make a joke where the punchline is a 12 year old being molested, or a woman being raped while she sleeps, is a no-go in my book. Except, I think that Disney knew exactly what they were getting when they hired him and to think that not one person went through his tweets or anything to see what could do damage to them is BS. They knew all of this was out there and they were trying so hard to get the heat off of themselves that it was only doing worse. Not to mention the person who surfaced those tweets was a right leaning Pizzagate asshole who was trying to silence anyone on the left with something to lose. SO while I still don't like James Gunn and kinda am happy he won't be giving another mediocre GotG movie (I'm sorry but GotG 2 was not great), I do not think Disney was in the right for firing him either.

Also, since this whole thing was started because I was hyperbolic with my "a lot" and I realize that can do someone in when there's not "proper evidence" to back that up I just want to say that I am not stepping off of my stance that I think this man is a terrible person. I'm allowed an opinion on someone's character and his does not add up to a glowing review from me.

I could absolutely be misremembering about the tweets. All I remember was seeing people post screen shots after he deleted and there was definitely at least another one besides the one that surfaced that reeked of Islamophobia, but this was a while ago and I couldn't even tell you who had screen shotted and posted it. As far as what the family has said, I've always trusted them above Peter Farrelly. I had read once that he had been fired after 3 days, but you know how the internet can be, but I still think that they changed the story to fit their narrative and Mahershala said himself that the producers had not informed him there was even living relatives - "‘If I have offended you, I am so, so terribly sorry. I did the best I could with the material I had. I was not aware that there were close relatives with whom I could have consulted to add some nuance to the character.'”. Vallenonga is saying that he had all of the direct correspondence between himself and Shirley. So he's claiming that everything he told is true and that Shirley explicitly told him not to talk to anyone else in his family, but his family is claiming that Shirley didn't even want this movie to be made. It's definitely a lot of he said she said. "Shirley's nephew Edwin Shirley III told the website Shadow and Act that the movie's suggestions that the musician was estranged from his family are 'very hurtful' and '100 percent wrong,' and that it's 'hard to believe' Shirley ever OK'd the film: 'I remember very, very clearly, going back 30 years, my uncle had been approached by Nick Vallelonga, the son of Tony Vallelonga, about a movie on his life, and Uncle Donald told me about it. He flatly refused.' Shirley's last surviving brother, Maurice Shirley, labeled the film 'a symphony of lies,' emphasizing, 'At that point he had three living brothers with whom he was always in contact.' Patricia Shirley, Maurice's wife, further insisted that Shirley and Lip were never friends: 'It was an employer-employee relationship.'" https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/green-book-is-one-awards-seasons-contentiously-debated-films-117433 What I read about him being fired is probably not true (it was in an article sent to me by a friend but of course now as I try and go through messages to find this article I can't find it - it would totally help if I remember when it was sent to me) - but I do think there are a lot of fabrications that were made to make Tony appear better than he was and to be presented as this white savior in the 60s. I don't think that they could properly expand on his relationship with his family when the movie only covers two months, and while I trust him to relay how his own father perceived these moments, I do not trust him to relay someone else's. I read through the Vanity Fair article and I trust them to publish stuff they have sources on, but this whole thing still reeks to me.

I saw a couple more but it's along the same lines (and I didn't look at the date of them so they could have been before the apology), but honestly I would have to say Islamophobia and blatant racism is more than a few bad actions. Also his entire story of his father is a fabrication and typical Hollywood whitewashing. Shirley's family has come out and talked about how nothing this man has said is true. Nick's father was racist and Shirley fired him almost immediately because he was the worst. Covering up racist actions in our history to make white people feel better is just as bad in my opinion.

Let's just say he's tweeted a lot of terrible TERRIBLE shit about entire sets of people and agrees a lot with policies set forth by another terrible TERRIBLE person.

I haven't listened to this ep yet, but are they playing this seriously or to like acknowledge how terrible this dude is? Cause terrible singing aside.... this man is a terrible person.

Believe me, this is what I've been telling myself in terms for the shitty characterization of Hawkeye this whole time lol.

Yeah I feel like a whole lot of the info is getting all screwed up, cause what I had heard was that Marvel keeps saying that this won't be the last you hear of all four Defenders, but then someone else mentioned that the cast and crews contracts were all with Netflix and not specifically just Marvel so if that leads to the whole two years thing I reeeaaallllyyyy hope that means that they can come back after that time for more and not just be recasted. EDITED TO ADD: What worried me about Krysten and the gang not coming back for JJ at least is that she said on Instagram that they are doing a legitimate series finale that will properly wrap up everything. So even if they do get to come back I don't think any of them are looking at this like they will.

I've still not listened to War on Drugs and I really need to remedy that. Also heard that there's a small possibility Hulu will pick it up, since it has a deal with Disney, before they launch their own streaming platform, buuuut I also heard that if Jessica Jones gets to live on it won't ever be with the same cast and crew. To me that defeats the whole purpose because what I love about this show is what these specific people brought to that table. Krysten will forever be my Jessica.

I'm just going to remember that Krysten Ritter arrived on stage to present and announced she was pregnant instead. (I love her so much I've been considering changing my Kate Bishop icon to a Jessica Jones icon.)

Since I know we're all mega comedy fans I wanted to mention the passing of Brody Stevens Every time I heard him on a podcast he was fucking hilarious and beaming with positivity and everything sucks now that he's gone. Paul made a very beautiful post about him on his Instagram so I highly recommend checking that out (I still don't know how to properly bring things over to here very well). Death sucks and I'm sorry that all my favorites lost such a great light in their lives.

There's also a doc coming out on Monday on Smithsonian about the actual Green Book and the black Americans that had to use it.

She said it's based on William Shatner doing commercials over there when they met.

Absolutely! Spotify is blocked at my work (booooo) but I'll add it as soon as I get home tonight!