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But separate from their relationship, Seb is the more infuriating of the two, and you have to allow us to process those opinions. And I stand by a lot of what I said because I still don't see as much personality from Mia as I did Seb because so much of what we see about her is influenced by him.

Okay on my part of this conversation never did I try to say that Seb is ever fully at fault. This is a clear example of it takes two people to make and break a relationship, but a lot of the comments have been about how HER reactions were shitty when his were just as shitty. We can fully support where Seb is coming from in that conversation without then tearing down where Mia is coming from because BOTH of their views are completely valid.

That's my point. It's the type of films she's doing that give her this stardom. That's why I mentioned JLaw too because in the same time frame and at a year and nine months younger Jennifer is at a much different level than I would have said Emma was at until Emma just got her Oscar for this. Being nominated for Oscars and doing movies that are held at a higher esteem will definitely put you on a certain trajectory. I showed Emma's 5 years span from when she did her first theatrical to show how she became this "girl next door" darling from all these movies she had done, but I bet if she had been in Winter's Bone instead of Superbad her life would be crazy different.

On a sad note, the last surviving munchkin died at 98 last week.

I guess it just depends on what those films were...

I totally agree it sounds short until you are actually living it. I mean I'm actually the one that should be arguing on the same side as y'all because I just blinked and suddenly I've been at my job for 5 years and Idk how that happened, but then you look at the career of Jennifer Lawrence who may have been a working actress as a teenager but until she got Winter's Bone was considered a nobody and then overnight became this MASSIVE star. In 5 years she was nominated for 3 Oscars, won 1, was the lead in a giant YA franchise, and a co-lead in a massive well-known comic franchise, as well as going from engaged to single to allegedly dating so many people lmao. That seems like a hell of a lot for 5 years! Emma's career definitely didn't have as much of a seemingly overnight success as JLaw's did, but she did one TV movie and 4 episodes of 4 separate shows before getting Superbad and 5 years after that she was Gwen Stacy in The Amazing Spider-Man so things did go pretty fast after that.

I think Seb knew about her life. He walked right past a billboard with her face on it so it would definitely be harder for him to ignore her than the other way around. But in my opinion it's entirely plausible that Mia didn't hear about this random jazz club opening up in LA. Especially since she made it seem like they weren't there all the time anymore cause when they hit traffic she said, "I definitely didn't miss this."

Idk I lost touch with someone in these last 5 years since graduating from college that I genuinely thought I would be close with forever. Someone I legit had that idea of "I'm never going to get over this person" and then before I knew it years had gone by and we never really talked. I mean part of it was that I found myself having to separate emotionally because it was no longer healthy for me to hold on to someone like that, and I'm wondering if Mia found herself in the same position. It could have started off with them corresponding for a while until she met Shades and she had this realization that things with Seb were never going to become what she may have wanted so she had to cut herself off from him. If they weren't going to try for a long distance relationship then I could very believably see themselves accepting that they can't hold onto each other (or at least Mia).

Also I highly doubt she would be either. I'm honestly not sure if Emma herself is on any social media.

But again, it's not fair to her either. She asked him a question about how long this whole band thing was going to last (because she knew it wasn't what he wanted to do) and suddenly he starts accusing her of stuff. I can't remember what it was he exactly said but I do remember how defensive he got about it all when she was truly just trying to figure out what their future would look like, and from the pure look of the whole conversation it seemed like she was asking for the exact same reasons he was.

Ding ding ding! This whole thing is a fantasy version of LA. That's what I meant by not relevant to the story that Damien wanted to tell. He wanted to tell this hyper-realistic fantasy version of the city these people all were dying to be in. I mean I know like you said we're all giving this movie the "HDTGM" treatment by nitpicking, but I believe that's because it's SO close to what we know to be true that so many things just seem completely unbelievable and we forget that this really is based on a dream version of the town. I mean one of my favorite criticisms were from all of the comedians I love that live in LA that couldn't get passed the first musical sequence because they were so pissed off about how much traffic dancing in the street causes. They couldn't separate themselves from their own LA life to accept that this was a damn musical lol.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions Not but seriously, of course she would have known that he wanted her to be around because he loved her, but any way he could have worded that it would've probably gotten the same result, because the timing just wasn't right for them. They were both neck deep in something they didn't believe they could break away from and that can cause some lack of proper communication in any relationship. They were both simultaneously right and wrong, and to me it does really highlight the fact that they were never destined to work out together.

Personally, I just don't think that's necessarily fair to her. Yeah it may be something where she can rehearse lines, but it's not just that for herself. The show was opening in two weeks and she very clearly was feeling the stress of the entire thing. She'd need to set up the stage, spread the word, and make sure the lines and blocking were ready. So if she felt like she needed to be in LA for that then that's completely her decision because it's what she needed to get this show together. I think that's more a failing of this movie than really anything we can surmise about Mia. She said she had been doing this LA thing for 6 years and so we have no actual idea what training she had or if she had taken any classes or even landed any bit parts on anything to get some cash because those things weren't relevant to the story that Damien wanted to tell.

Oh absolutely, and I'm certainly not saying to NOT make your own things and to NOT work, but there is such an oversimplification in the statement of "Just write your own roles!" And there's never really that discussion in most media, or even from real life people, about how much hard work it truly requires. For example, while Mia is working her ass off on this show and taking his advice, he just kinda blows off the hard work she's putting into it by asking her, "Can't you just rehearse anywhere?" So even with him he didn't truly understand the weight of his own statement when he gave her this idea. To him, acting and writing appeared easy. If she was getting so rejected just stop doing that and do this other thing cause it's easy, right? But no, it's not, and Mia put everything into that show.

God, that line bothered me as well! I'm not gonna generalize here but it sounded like a lot like what I hear Gen-X'ers tell Millennials when we complain about the job market, but Damien is technically a Millennial so I'm wondering if this was like his "See I did it so can you!" Because you're so right, not everyone is going to blow up with the thing they make just because they made it. It's also a big thing I hear from "influencers" that just somehow make it big by like doing that one very specific thing they love (reviewing makeup/writing movie reviews/making a podcast...) but then I'm sitting there like, "Oh right I never once thought about that before I picked up my camera. Not ever once." It just shows the true disconnect that Seb has from what Hollywood is like and what Mia's life is like. Yeah her making her thing and doing her show got her noticed, but she still didn't end up making her own thing, she just got yet another audition that ended up going really well that time.

When I was a kid all I wanted was a pair of those ruby slippers and honestly I still wouldn't mind indulging in a pair.

I like the way this conversation has gone.

I will give you Evans, maybe Hemsworth, but I would still pick Gosling over Pratt. MBJ still wins overall for me lol.

That's very fair, but I'd like to clarify I was referring to specifically this character. It's clear that Keith is just as educated in the history of jazz as Seb is, so with his own personal look on the genre I do trust Keith's opinion more.

Oh sorry this time I knew which "he" you meant but I guess my point is that in my opinion no matter which character is white I think they need to butt the fuck out of the conversation and maybe listen to the black person telling them what jazz is like lol.

I still think he is whitesplaining jazz to Keith which is why I basically brought up this topic. Keith is telling him how jazz was about going into the future and as a black man I trust his view on jazz a looooot more than Seb.

Ha! Now you know how it feels lol! But I also didn't know until I started reading these articles about Damien's relationship to jazz and how he portrays jazz in these 3 films. It's interesting to see that in that first film he made it stars a black man and a latina woman.

Not only is he such an amazing actor but I am going on record that MBJ is the most gorgeous man alive. WHERE IS HIS AWARD PEOPLE MAGAZINE???

I also wanted to post this Vulture article because it brings up some modern jazz artists that are really enjoyable.

Okay gonna turn the topic onto Seb thinking he was the one that could "save" jazz. When I first saw it I immediately felt a little like "oh really white boy from LA you're the one who's gonna save jazz?" but I think this article by Ira Madison III speaks for this whole thing. So something I had been thinking about a lot since I first saw this was what if John Legend and Ryan Gosling had switched parts. Let's take out the star factor from Ryan and the fact that we're not totally sure John can act well enough to carry a movie and basically just focus on what the movie would be like if a black man had played Seb. I absolutely would have probably liked this 100% more if MBJ was playing Seb. And that's from someone who does in fact love Ryan Gosling. But MBJ? *whistles* that man is a whole nother level, y'all.