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I was part of that back and forth and definitely am not knocking on the fact that she was a secretary! There seems to be a lot missing between points A and B from when she leaves that court house to when she gets to that club that just don't connect for me personally that would make more sense if she were a disgraced detective or even undercover like Cameron mentioned. Like I kept waiting for her to actually do her own detective work... Oh man like what if that cop actually was convinced she had something to do with Jerry's murder, since this movie is just one set up against her after another, and she actually has to go and solve everything on her own because no one will listen to her? Everything about the movie can stay the same up until Jerry dies and then we get a better look at how clever and resourceful she is. Because as this movie currently stands I really only think we see her use her own wits at the very end.

No promises

I would read the shit out of that just FYI. I'll have to admit I'm not totally positive I'm sure which "that" you're referring to but I'm assuming it's the ballerina's? To which I honestly am not 100% about, but I learned specifically about Degas when our professor started asking us who our favorite artists were and then told us all a story about how they actually kinda suck lol. I picked Degas and learned he basically used women for his selfish gain and hung out primarily with the ballerinas because they were just a step above sex workers at the time so he didn't have to totally tarnish his image for his paintings and sex. But I also think you mean women in art and the dichotomy of madonna and whore? In that case, I also can't say with 100% all knowing fact, but there is so much evidence going as far back as the 4th century. Here's a fun image of Mary and Jesus from Rome dating that very century! I didn't even know about Picasso and all of his bull shit until Hannah Gadsby's special on Netflix. We briefly touched on his art style, yes, but no one ever got into his life like some others. I bet if I had majored in Art History rather than minored I would have eventually found it all out. Yup. It's why I'm very much all aboard the "representation matters!" train because there's so much genuine history that shows the weight of how we look at people in the media we're presented.

Oh shit no I don't think I ever heard the end of that story! Tbh the idea of it grossed me out so much I blocked all mention from sites lol. Now I'm wondering if Striptease has been inspiring an entire generation of food hoaxes!

Quick look through in my Letterboxd and I didn't find anything blatantly problematic that I had liked recently. So basically let's throw out all my theories and just go back to I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHY PEOPLE WOULD STILL LIKE THIS!

Oh I should have reworded that first line then cause that wasn't what I meant by "here's how they're different." And I wasn't trying to say that's what you said either. I was merely commenting on the kind of camp of "well this movie did this offensive thing and then this other movie did this offensive thing," ya know? Because I so think that "unknowingly" vs "knowingly" can be a big difference in my book. You bring up a very good point with Swing Time and then Gone with the Wind, although I still think even back then they knew exactly what they were doing in terms of black face because I've read since that particular thread from some historians much smarter than me that black face was only ever intended to do harm and was introduced to mock black people. So it's very hard for me to see Fred Astaire do that and ever think he was intending to "honor" a friend. Anyway, even between Swing Time and Gone with the Wind it's kinda that same thing for me. Yes, GwtW is problematic but you take out those problems and it's a solid fuckin' movie. I'm not giving it a pass, nor B&T, or ignoring the problems, but I can recognize these are problems and then still continue to enjoy the films because they are still good. But you're very right in that if I were seeing these for the first time it may completely ruin the whole experience for me. I'm still trying to think of recent examples where I saw something for the first time or if something came out recently that was problematic but still good. I'll get back to y'all on that when I get home lol.

Here's why I think Bill & Ted's and the Crank movies are different... Bill & Ted's is still good even with the homophobic slurs. Cameron, I think you mentioned in the Blues Brothers thread that there are some things where one bad joke can ruin the whole thing for you, right? Well for me, even though we all know that slur is used in really poor taste, we also know they weren't trying to be homophobic (or at least like they weren't trying to say they hate gay people or anything) and there was no malice really intended. I think Crank 2 intended to be as vile as it could be for the shock value, which takes me out of it completely. But even if you take out all of the racism, homophobia, & misogyny, this is not a good movie. So that's why I'm trying really hard to figure out what it is that people like about it.

Maybe it seemed like the most likely to get in there? One time about 15 years or so ago we went to a Luby's (a cafeteria style restaurant here in North Texas) and my aunt found a full blown roach in my baby cousin's food. We didn't sue but that was definitely the last time anyone in our family ever went there. Apparently I'm the only one who was scarred enough to remember because neither my mom nor my aunt remember this happening but I was so disgusted I never forgot, and it wasn't even in my dish. Also when I was 10 I endured 2nd degree burns from something spilling out of a TV dinner onto my leg and I swear my mom still talks about how she wishes she had sued, but we didn't. It was perfectly in that spot where the knee was so I couldn't bend it without it hurting so I had to walk on crutches for a week. I did my best to properly take care of it so that it wouldn't leave a terrible scar (including putting fish oil onto the wound for months) and I'm happy to say that you really can only see the evidence in the exact right lighting. Otherwise you would never know.

Omg Quasar I didn't think of bringing my minor into this but I definitely could lmao. The "Madonna-Whore" complex is famously identified as being "created" by Freud and people genuinely think that it was only around his time that women began to be portrayed in only two ways but in actuality has been a thing in art for hundreds and hundreds of years. (Personally I kinda think Freud is a hack anyway but I'm not gonna get into that today.) Towards the beginning of records of human life some of the earliest findings of art we have are of women, and typically they are seen as givers of life. The mostly are fertility statues of large women with large breasts and they are seen as the ultimate signs of life, and are respected as very beautiful. It wasn't that that was the only way women were seen, but rather they were seen with respect. I've seen some try and say that these are the ultimate variations of the "Madonna" but I disagree with them as did my Women in Art professor, because like I said, it wasn't that they were respected for their virtue but for their ability to give life. I think that because the "Madonna" is Mary then people do equate motherhood with that, but back in those times that's not how they were seen at all. It was when religion, namely Christianity, became the subject of so many pieces of art that you really and truly see this come into play. Suddenly every piece of art is about how women were corrupted by Satan and then corrupt men themselves, or it's about the Virgin Mary and how she is the ultimate idol for women to look up to. And after these times the snowball effect happens and everyone's view of women becomes affected by how they are presented in these master paintings. It even gets to the point where depictions of women in art are so shamed that the only women who would model for paintings were sex workers (or ballet dancers but during the age of Degas they were considered only one step above sex workers so they were heavily disrespected themselves). As we move off of paintings being our sole representation for women, we see how this idea of "Madonna and the whore" has stuck around, because for hundreds of years it has been hammered into our way of thinking. So we have Demi Moore playing a woman that wants to be looked at as the Madonna and wrestles with the idea of being considered a whore, but there is a refusal that she can be both or that there doesn't have to be this 0-60 mindset.

Yeah I've been trying to think of movies that do portray some pretty shitty stuff that I still say I enjoy because yeah those things made me cringe a lot, but I'm positive there are still examples of movies that are good and still can be racist and homophobic in their portrayals. I haven't thought of anything yet but I'm still at work and trying to act like I'm getting stuff done lololol

I'll have to jump it to the top of my watch list then! I went to school out east so I'm now hella interested in this!

Okay I want to clarify I didn't bring up the McD's woman to trivialize her experience (it may have come across as so) but rather to say that I can see why Shad would think that this idea that finding a bug in his food could get him something. Obviously millions is out of the question, but there are more than just the real story about the woman spilling hot coffee on her where people win suits like this. Someone found a rat in the mix of their KFC chicken and won, someone found a full finger in their Wendy's chili and won, and it would appear that finding a full roach in his yogurt could have possible given Shad something as well. So my point stands that in his defense people have won their suits in similar cases.

I'm really glad I skipped Gamer then too...

This is basically why I asked the question, because Paul and Amy both recorded that episode (I'm guessing) within the last month or so. Why they would still say they love those movies in 2018 is mind boggling to me, and is why I came back and asked if there was anyone that could give an insight. I think grudlian is hitting the nail on the head in that neither one of them has probably revisited them in the last couple of years, and if they have... then I need to legitimately hear why they still say they love them because I can't figure it out.

There was one point where it finally hit me that oh right this isn't supposed to be rooted in reality so all of this is supposed to be over the top, but the things that were bad weren't bad because they were over the top, but rather (to me) because I felt like even if this was rooted more in real life they still would have made the same decisions. You're definitely right though cause I haven't seen the first movie and there was a lot happening that I just didn't get and didn't care to get.

Question about these two Crank movies, because Paul and Amy both said they loved them on Unspooled last week: What is it that people like about them? Is it the craziness? The out of the world possibilities? Some of it could be seen as enjoyable, like the scene where he jumped down the circular garage onto the car below, but most of it was just too yikes to fully buy into how ridiculous it was supposed to be. Is there anyone here that even rated it higher than 1.5 stars that could give some insight?

What I will say about Texas in movies, and they make a point to say this, is that people will cover stories in Texas that is specifically set in west Texas because then they can film in New Mexico or Arizona and get away with the landscape (I believe HoHW was filmed in NM for example). So while the story itself may accurately depict Texas life, the setting is still trying to blend those state lines. That's why especially with Linklater he does get Texas correct too, because he films IN Texas and not only that but in central Texas where everything is boring and flat (save for the Austin hill country). I love that they focused on what the terrain of Texas would look like in the areas that Bonnie & Clyde genuinely went through and didn't just try and fudge it, because that part of Texas looks so specifically boring that it truly mimics how boring they thought their lives were. Fantastic detail!!!

That's true, he does. I haven't seen Bernie yet, but in both Dazed & Confused and Boyhood there is a specialty to them that you would only truly get if you were from Texas. I also just remembered that in HoHW the beer they drink is only Shiner, which is a big Texas beer and is typically what most Texans would say is their favorite. (I say most because I know Fister and I have gotten into heavy debates about what the best beer in Texas truly is lol.) It's little details like that that may seem like something frivolous but to a Texan those are huuuge things because they are generally taken so seriously here. Which is why I do appreciate the DP mention in B&C.

Cameron, I know... I didn't go into specifics because I figured we all knew this story...

And, in all fairness to Shad, someone did get McDonald's to pay up for spilling coffee on themselves. So this whole idea is not out of the realm of possibility.

God yes, Hell or High Water is maybe my favorite Texas set movie, and tbh it has a lot to do with one certain part and it's when Ben Foster goes into the gas station and then comes out yelling about how they don't have Dr. Pepper. That right there is literally all it took for me to believe that this was Texas, because that's SUCH a Texan fuckin thing to say.

That was certainly the male reaction, but I understand what EvRobert is saying. The female reaction was definitely one that can only be compared to this 50 Shades phenomenon. And while it does make me kinda be like jfc I don't need to know that these groups of women are all going to see Magic Mike for that kinda reason, I think because there are so few times in Hollywood history where there was a female gaze and it was directed upon men that this gets a pass. Like there are also times where women can be looked at sexually in film and it works for one reason or another so we can't say it should never happen. Magic Mike seems like one of those films where since yeah because the writing and the directing makes the story meaningful then the sexual gaze upon these men ties it all together and just works.

No

Ha got it https://lets.rabb.it/I3ZZfNLrlO

I'm hurrying to get this room set up y'all I promise. I had issues logging into Hulu and now Amazon and I kinda wanna punch my laptop.