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taylor anne photo

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Posts posted by taylor anne photo

  1. Posted

    2 hours ago, mdoyl44 said:

    I think if there was a new list, we’d see a lot of progress in that regard... it does feel like the past 12 years or see have a lot more examples of excellent American animation. Wall-E arguably helped change the Oscars, we’ve got the resurgence of Disney, Laika Studios has entered the game, and let’s not forget the Spider-Verse (wary as I am of setting such a recent movie in the firmament, I LOVE it).

    I don't remember how Wall-E changed the Oscars at all so you'll have to refresh my memory. I know that Beauty and the Beast was the first animated movie to ever be nominated for Best Picture, and then Up was nominated in 2010 and it was the first year it went from 5 back to 10 slots in the BP category.

  2. Posted

    9 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

    One thing that I thought was cool on this rewatch was when the Dwarves return home from work and see the food cooking over the fire, Grumpy warns them not to eat the tempting food because it might be poisoned. It’s a nice bit of foreshadowing, and also helps explain that Grumpy’s demeanor and cynicism is based at least a bit in pragmatism. It’s an interesting message in a kids movie. It’s not the happy-go-lucky Dwarves that get it right, but the one who is like, “Don’t trust anything.”

    Also the animals are waaaay smarter than everyone and warn the absolute fuck out of Snow about that apple and she's just like "SHOO!" and then dies so the lesson there is listen to your gd pets y'all they know better than you.

    • Haha 1

  3. Posted

    2 minutes ago, SeekerofJoy said:

    Sorry, I picked the wrong icon, thinking it was a smiley face. I like Cinderella too. 

    I got the notification that you had switched it and immediately felt bad for calling you out, but I was definitely like DEFEND THIS ACTION AS I HAVE DONE! 😂

  5. Posted

    Just now, Cameron H. said:

    Oh, I agree. These lists can be kind of a joke. However, I think that things are definitely starting to open up. And the more diversification we see, the more likely movies like The French Connection, MASH, and Goodfellas (which tend to skew more favorably with old, cis-gendered white dudes) drop off in favor of other, more inclusive, movies - like Josie and the Pusseycats ;) 

    giphy.gif

    • Like 1

  6. Posted

    8 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

    I think that’s tough to judge though as it treads into the realm of subjectivity. Who among us can even agree on what’s a “good story?” Paul likes Marvel movies, Amy doesn’t. Hell, you and I can’t even agree between two Disney princesses much less every American film ever made. I’m sure all four of us have very different opinions on what makes a good story.

    As far as underdeveloped characters, that’s a little less subjective, but what’s to say who’s an underdeveloped character or not? I see far more depth in Snow White than you do. I see a dreamer, a romantic, a kind heart, a person trusting to a fault, a person who - despite her suffering - just wants to sing and dance and be happy. Now, is she as developed as, say, Ariel or Belle? Probably not. But I doubt that they had the same luxury of time and money as those films either, so cuts were probably made to make it work with as little as possible. So I guess the question is then, is she developed enough. Do we understand who she is and what her motivations are? Do we worry for her when she’s in danger? Do we feel happy for her when she feels safe? Do we laugh with her, and do we cry for her? If so, then I think the movie has accomplished it’s goal - especially for a children’s film which doesn’t need to be overly complex.

    So, taking it back to Avatar, maybe that’s why it doesn’t make the list, but Titanic does? Neither Jack or Rose are overly complex, but we still feel for them unlike Avatar-guy.

    I think that’s why you have to weigh these movies with things that are more objective. And that’s where cultural influence and technical achievement help to make it, to some extent, measurable.

    Good points! Honestly maybe this is why these lists are kinda like not holding as much weight to them as they used to. A bunch of people get together and tell us what is considered the greatest of all time and we just have to accept it as blind truth? Sounds fake LOL. No but really it's a good point to raise that art is subjective and I can't even imagine the debates that happen in order to create these lists to begin with.

    • Like 1

  7. Posted

    @SeekerofJoy wanna discuss why you're laughing at my opinion? I am more than happy to talk about this further and listen to an actual formulated response that isn't just "haha."

    (If it was an accidental response then by all means ignore this post. I just am always curious about reactions lol.)

  8. Posted

    5 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

    I guess the question goes back to you then. What do you think makes a “great” movie? Because, personally, I don’t have a problem with including achievement and influence as at least part of the criteria. If nothing else, allowing for influence and achievement gives me the distance I need when really don’t see the appeal in one of these particular movies.

    That's an excellent question. I'm definitely going to think about it probably for the next week for sure lol, but my gut reaction tells me that everything has to be top notch, if that makes sense. Like being influential and ground-breaking with new achievements is all great and good but if there's not a good story or the characters are mind bogglingly under-developed then that's not a great movie to me. This is why I mentioned Avatar, because James Cameron can invent all the new ways to film that he wants but it is a BORING movie that completely rips off many stories before it, so why celebrate something just because of a new invention if the movie he made with it was garbage?

    • Like 2

  9. Posted

    18 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but the list claims to be the “greatest American films” which, for me, means the whole process. And I try my best to not necessarily think of “greatest” as a synonym for “most enjoyable.” For example, I probably enjoy watching Big Hero Six more than Snow White, but in terms of influence, technical achievement, and moving the art of filmmaking forward, it’s certainly not the “greater” film. I mean, I’ll be honest, there are movies on this list I straight up hate, but I think deserve to be on the list for what they did for cinema. 

    I mean, sure, there has to be some entertainment value too, but I feel like it’s got to achieve more than just that.

    I'm not equating enjoyable with greatness. I enjoy the fuck out of Josie and the Pussycats but I would never argue for it to be considered one of the greatest movies of all time lol. But I think that what we consider a good or great movie should be discussed. I personally do not think influence or achievement should equate greatness either or else Avatar would have a bigger standing in the conversation for the new updated list, and I swear to god if Avatar makes it on that list I'm flipping a table lol.

    ETA: In terms of Snow White I am truly on the fence about whether it's the right Disney animated film to make it onto the list, if I'm keepin' it 100. My gut reaction wants to say that it should be replaced with something better, because I do think that Walt focused so much on the animation and filming that the story aspect kinda got pushed to the side. However, many people do love this movie and I do think it holds higher and to a better standing than something like French Connection, which makes me want to keep it and maybe just add something from a later decade like The Lion King so not every Disney movie is just lumped into two films.

  10. Posted

    Alright, so sitting on my thoughts a lot I do believe I am overly critical of this movie, but I also think that's a lot of what we're supposed to be doing when we get into these films, and especially when they get classified as being "The Greatest." I think that classification sticks with me a lot because when you watch these movies you truly expect them to be the greatest, and I really don't feel that way about Snow White. I certainly don't hate this film, but like I realized earlier I really don't think I like it either. Like when they talk about the way it was filmed that is definitely what I like about this, and the shot of the witch's face when Snow White takes a bite out of the apple but we only see her reaction rather than Snow's face eating and dying. That's a really stylistic choice that I love.

    If there was a list that was like a "Must See" or "Most Influential" I would absolutely feel that it deserved a spot, but once again I just hyper focus on what this list claims to be and I don't think it fits into that criteria. Then trying to get away from the "does this deserve to be on the list" conversation I do want to discuss what the film is and what its story is. To me, I feel like it lacks in story, and maybe that's because to me the most interesting parts are with The Queen and the least interesting are how Snow White "mothers" the dwarfs, which seems to be a giant chunk of the movie.

    But, maybe I'm being too hard on it.

    • Like 2

  11. Posted

    15 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

    Like Cinderella..?

    I have no problem with her cooking and cleaning in return for shelter. I also think it takes skill to be able to do either of those things well. Honestly, I feel like she was just being a good houseguest. 

    It’s fine if you like Cinderella, but I think we’re really splitting hairs here. I think it comes down to a matter of taste. Any criticism you can level at Snow White (boring, no agency, poorly defined) I could level right back at Cinderella. So I’m going to let it go.

    Lol fine sure the movie does a disadvantage to Cinderella as well, but I guess my point is that at least in her movie they set up a lot more for me to believe why she has these traits better than Snow White does. I really believe that the step mother in Cinderella pushed her to the point where that's all she can do, because for me I see little parts of other things within her that immediately get stomped down due to abuse. But in Snow White the movie starts at a point where we don't actually see any of the parental abuse that Snow White goes through before she's immediately about to get murdered for her beauty, and I would've liked to have seen her interaction with her step mother more in order to believe the rest of her character later in the story when she meets the dwarfs. But also, you're the one who mentioned she utilized the skills she possessed hence why I mentioned what they just were, so even to your argument we can say that Cinderella also utilized her skills, but really because she was being forced to because she was being abused every day of her life.

    And you're right, at this point it really just comes down to our tastes.

  12. Posted

    1 minute ago, DannytheWall said:

    Yup. That's why I said this movie is a hard sell for 2019 audiences. And it's not just for plot and character problems. Those things are just part of the aesthetic of the times, the same kind of aesthetic of color, light, editing, etc. So no fault for disliking it at all. I'm certainly arguing more because there are bits that I do like, and generally how much I like the medium itself. No fault to what started the conversation; I generally don't like discussions that JUST center on "should it List?" and would prefer to see it as an opportunity to talk about the films in general as they come up. 

    That's completely fair. And I'm trying to stay away from conversations that just center on how "woke" the movie isn't now that we do have a 2019 mindset as opposed to the 1937 mindset because it's true that we really can't hold it to the same light, but there are movies from this same time that I find stunning because they have created such beautiful stories and characters with more characterization than just she's nice and beautiful and can clean for strangers. Like two years later Gone with the Wind is made and Scarlett O'Hara is truly one of the most fascinating characters I've ever watched on film.

    3 minutes ago, DannytheWall said:

    Well, to be fair the dwarfs don't really have any agency, either. They come home from work and all this stuff's already done for them. They do a song, I guess? Then they come to Snow White's rescue (too late), and to fight the Queen, but nope, it's bad weather and gravity that does her in. They put Snow on a bier, I guess? The only one actually doing any agency things here is the Queen.

    Maybe she just needs a Maleficient-style makeover. After all, we don't actually see a body. :) Snow White 2: The Re-Appling 

    This is also fair, but for me I totally see a lot more depth put into the dwarfs than I do Snow, and that may have to do with animation style as well. I can see the care they put into designing each of these men and for some reason I don't see that same care put into Snow and it kinda translates into her character as well. I just totally find her boring! The Queen absolutely is the greatest character in this movie and legit one of my favorite moments is when she's going into her murder dungeon and just kicks away the cup from the skeleton and laughs at it. That was literally a better glimpse into who this women is than anything Snow White does this whole movie lol.

  13. Posted

    1 minute ago, Cameron H. said:

    There are whole huge sections of Cinderella where she’s not even in it. 

    Also while perhaps truncated, the prince falls in love with Snow White for who she is - despite her rags. He has no idea that she’s a princess, he just knows he likes her voice. They even duet together showing their compatibility. Contrast this with Cinderella whose Prince falls in love with her exclusively because of her looks and when she’s looking her most regal.

    As far as agency, I think Snow shows plenty. But she’s also a little girl whose primary attribute is kindness. So, no, she’s not going to storm the Wicked Queen’s castle or anything like that, but she does find shelter for herself and barters a new life with the Dwarves utilizing the skills she possesses. No one ever intervenes on her behalf and no one - neither the Prince, nor the Dwarves - ever tells her what to do. If anything, she’s the one saying, “No, no - this is how it’s going to be.”

    "For who she is."

    I just want to comment on this one part, because I could not disagree more. Sure he doesn't know that she's a princess, but he has NO idea who she really is. He falls in love with her because of her voice and her beauty, and we would be naive to think that's not all it is. They sing one duet and suddenly they're both in love and that's extremely surface level. And believe me I'm not arguing for the love story in Cinderella as being the best representation of anything here, but I do prefer the full story, and I also do believe it's the only live action remake to properly convey the story and improve on the things it lacked that none of the Snow White or even the Beauty and the Beast adaptation could do.

    Yes, Snow shows kindness and that is her greatest attribute but it still does nothing to convince me that she's a 3-dimensional character. For one, the skills that she possesses are literally just cleaning and cooking and that's a problem for a whole nother conversation. But everyone actually does intervene on her behalf. She doesn't get to defeat the witch, even if she was too nice to storm The Queen's castle she literally gets killed and then the dwarfs kill the witch on her behalf, and then Prince Charming is there to bring her back to life. Everything that happens at the climax of this story happens while she's dead and that begs the question of what the fuck is the point of her besides being someone that has actions done to them rather than being the one to do them herself. And while no one may tell her what to do (except the Huntsman and The Queen do actually order her to do what they want) the only things she decides are in regards to again cooking and cleaning. Truly she just tells the dwarfs to bath and cleans for them and makes them eat properly. That's sooooo dumb!

  14. Posted

    1 minute ago, DannytheWall said:

    My reading of A. A. Ghost's post what less that it was meant to draw you into to watch more of the catalogue of movies, but it was representational of what the catalogue could offer. 

    That being said, there's enough going on with Snow White in terms of technical achievements, story structure or tropes, and craft-like stuff like that which could certainly draw people into watching more of the same catalogue. Animation as a medium itself benefits from its legacy, and any number of animated films that still have an "ending" can draw people in to watch other films in the oeuvre.  That's certainly happened to me as a little kid.  

    Oh yeah I totally understood him, but my point was just that then if this one movie is representing everything this catalogue could offer, then they're basically expecting you to be drawn into watching more to get that glimpse ya know?

    I guess for me by the time I came around my first intro to Disney films were Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin. Those two films are not only animation marvels to watch, but have amazing stories and musical numbers that just make them amazingly well-rounded films. So then to go back to something like Snow White later you kinda just feel like... yeah this is cool I guess lol. And I've heard from new parents who sit their kids in front of things like Snow White and Sleeping Beauty and they get legitimately bored. So the animation style is no longer something that is considered a marvel enough to makeup for the lack of a good well-rounded movie.

    Y'all I'm realizing I may not like Snow White at all lololol.

    • Like 1

  15. Posted

    Just now, Cameron H. said:

    I’m completely opposite. I hated Cinderella the last time I watched it (a year or so ago). Snow White completely astounds me from both a technical and storytelling perspective. For example, the Dwarf hoedown really seems to be there to show off just what they could do with animation, but it also serves to cement Snow White’s relationship with them.

    The last time I watched Cinderella, I was shocked by how little she was actually in it. It was like she was a guest star in her own movie with most of it being devoted to her mouse friends. In this movie, there’s no doubt that it is Snow’s story.

    Oh man I could not feel more opposite! Even in terms of the story itself! I was shocked to find how Snow White seemed like such a secondary character in her own story! I will say it's been a few years since I've rewatched it, but I remember my feelings about it so well. I truly thought Snow White had no agency or characterization or even wants besides just wanting to marry the Prince she just met. I'm not trying to talk solely just about female representation here, but purely just the representation of the main character of this story. The Queen ends up being a far more interesting character, as do the dwarfs, and Snow White is a passive character that does NOTHING for herself and it's so boring to watch her. So I just completely disagree and I have major doubt that this is Snow's story.

    Now Cinderella does have it's own set of problems as well, especially the whole desiring a man to save her thing and blah blah blah, but the story of the emotional abuse by her step mother and step sisters is way more set in reality for me than Snow White's and to me has a much better narrative. There's still a lot of suspension of disbelief that would go in to any of these animated Disney films, but I found Cinderella just much more interesting to rewatch than Snow White and her annoying ass lol.

  16. Posted

    9 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

    The other idea I think Snow White does encompass (and maybe perfectly?) for the AFI list is that it represents "all Disney." I personally think that a few other early ones are better too, and even closer to "great", but Snow White may be the best representation of Disney as a genre. It's a stand-in for all the great Disney movies at once. And I think to some extent that's what puts this on the list.

    I just have such a problem with that concept. Like I get it in terms of Stars Wars and Fellowship of the Ring because the trilogy itself is the complete story and therefore the first of each trilogy made the list because then it does grab you into watching all three movies (and then by virtue see the films that actually DO deserve to make the list... i.e. Empire Strikes Back and Return of the King respectively). In terms of Disney, though, Snow White's story concludes at the end of this film and there's really nothing drawing you to then go further into the Disney catalog based on this alone. I find having a place holder movie to represent better movies made by the same company simply because it was the first of its kind to rather defeat the purpose of this list entirely.

    • Like 1

  17. Posted

    1 minute ago, grudlian. said:

    My answer to this question is no.

    I get that this movie has a lot of greatness by being the "first" but I can pick a handful of Disney movies from the same era that are better/more enjoyable.

    Same. Honestly I really do enjoy Cinderella a hell of a lot more as a story and musical.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

  18. Posted

    1 hour ago, grudlian. said:

    I hadn't seen this since the theatrical re-release in 1987 and I get the reason why it's on the list. It's the first and a huge step forward from what animation was doing even in 1936. I'm not super into the movie.

    I like the first 40 minutes or so but I find the stuff with the dwarves not as interesting. The songs are good but ehhh, I don't really care about what's going on.

    That's the main question I wanted to ask this week. Does a movie that in and of itself is pretty meh deserve to be on the Greatest list simply because of the achievement it made? Not that I'm cutting down how spectacular this was in 1937 but we're now well over 80 years out from it and we've all seen better more spectacular animated films.

  19. Posted

    1 hour ago, AlmostAGhost said:

    I'm hoping she goes cynical about Snow White tomorrow

    If she doesn't then I'll be right here on the boards to do it for her lol. I have some thoughts.

    • Like 2

  21. Posted

    I just saw this turd this past weekend and I'm actually extremely angry that this ended up the way it did. It's a mockery of horror and even Oscar Winner Helen Mirren comes out of this smeared in shit. She's not good y'all.

    From my Letterboxd:

    Quote

    In a time where we have horror movies like Get Out, Hereditary, and Us this feels like something that could’ve been an amazing commentary on mental health crumbling under guilt and grief and the gun obsessed culture that started due to the Winchester guns.

    Instead we got something straight out of 2005 in terms of both story and graphics, and I’m 100% positive everyone high fived each other when this was created.

    I truly want the gang to do this, maybe for Halloween this year, and try and just comprehend wtf everyone was thinking.

     

  24. Posted

    4 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

    Sure, but I mean, I also want to watch them all

    I'm not OCD on many things but I just don't jump into art like that. I start it at the start.

    I 100% get that and am also the same. I am also just trying to be a good friend that saves you from wasting so many hours on such terrible movies lol.

    Like, okay I will expand to say I would watch Twilight for the origin story and to support Catherin Hardwicke trying her hardest with the source, and then I would skip New Moon and Eclipse like so hard lol.

    • Like 3

  25. Posted

    11 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

    *shudders* I can't do it! I can't just watch the 5th movie of a series. Maybe if they're unrelated like Bond or something, but not a series like this.

    Dude, trust me, with this you can.

    Actually just watch Breaking Dawn Part 1 and you'll literally get everything from the first 3, because they still harp on the same shit and you'll get to see a grown man fall in love with a CGI baby.

    • Like 3
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