Temptation - Tyler Perry

[Lando 2019]

Tyler Perry is to Spike Lee, what Uwe Boll is to Tyler Perry.

[seanotron 2307]

Spike expressed his thoughts on Tyler Perry thusly

 

[seanotron 2307]

Tyler Perry is to Spike Lee, what Uwe Boll is to Tyler Perry.

 

Who am I rooting for in that last match-up?

[sillstaw 414]

Who am I rooting for in that last match-up?

 

Mutually assured destruction.

[Lando 2019]

Tyler Perry is better than Uwe Boll in the sense that Diarrhea is better than Cancer.

[seanotron 2307]

But what if the diarrhea is caused by colorectal cancer?

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

Tyler Perry is better than Uwe Boll in the sense that Diarrhea is better than Cancer.

But even though it's bad for me, I might actually enjoy what led me to that diarrhea. I know it's Taco Bell,and I know I'm going to be regretting later, but I love that fucking food. I do not enjoy Tyler Perry or Uwe Boll films.

[wakefresh 689]

Spike expressed his thoughts on Tyler Perry thusly

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTjvC3-UgQo

 

Ok, so Spike Lee has some points, yes, but I think this is bit of upturned-nose syndrome going on in Lee's comments. White folks tend to think that black people are this mass of humanity and that every black person automatically loves every other black person. But there is classism in the black community just like there is classism in the white community, and it definitely comes to a head when something that middle-class blacks hate becomes popular. W.E.B DuBois hated, absolutely hated Jazz and Blues music. That music, being made by sharecroppers and illiterate laborers, was not the "face" that newly freed black people should be putting out to the world. He would rather have had black composers writing classical music or creating operas that relate to the Black experience in America. For example, DuBois was a fan of Countee Cullen -- who wrote poems in traditional European forms, but with African themes -- and didn't understand what the deal was with Langston Hughes because Hughes wrote poetry inspired by the free-flowing nature of jazz. He felt Hughes and the bluesmen were setting back black people in this country. He was right about a lot of thing, but this is something where he was mistaken.

 

Larry Leon Hamlin is the coordinator of the Black Theatre Festival and he's been shitting on Perry for a long time. He's from that same black middle class and feels that the plays were setting back black theater. I think Perry's movies/plays are ok; they're not the best, and they're not the worst, but they are not of Birdemic/Tiptoes quality. Lee invoking buffoonery? C'mon man, was he being a buffoon and setting back black folks with those Mars Blackmon commercials? Should black people never be animated and lively at any time? People act like Perry's movies are the reason why racism exists or some shit. It is not that crucial.

[PhillipMedoc 648]

Shariq, I really appreciate your articulate thoughts on race, and it's a refreshing voice in this forum.

 

I think Perry's movies/plays are ok; they're not the best, and they're not the worst, but they are not of Birdemic/Tiptoes quality.

I mean, they're basically the equivalent of the American Pie franchise (up to something like 8 sequels right now) or possibly the Freedberg/Seltzer kinda stuff, right?

[Lando 2019]

I think it's slightly different, more robust than say American Pie or Frideberg/Seltzer because Perry regularly sells out gigantic venues for his live shows and has multiple shows on TBS. Maybe in a sense it's more akin to Kirk Cameron or Blue Collar Comedy.

 

But it's why I suggested someone like Charlie Murphy (or maybe another African American comedian who would be easier to get, although I think Charlie is a good sport and may be getable). It's easy to judge these movies and poke fun at them, it's difficult to examine the cultural divide in an entertaining manner.

[thestray 361]

I don't think Tyler Perry's movies are Birdemic quality, but really, what is? I do think though that they're as shitty or worse as many other things that have been featured on the podcast. They're dumb movies, but so are lots of other mainstream films. I personally don't have a problem with the fact that Tyler Perry movies exist or that they're popular, because a lot of dumb things rise to the top, that's just how it works regardless of race.

 

What I do kinda have a problem with is there's Tyler Perry movies and pretty much not too much else for black audiences. There's no black Michel Gondry or black Wes Anderson or black Paul Thomas Anderson or black Judd Apatow or black JJ Abrams, and so on and so forth. I know Tyler Perry is not the only black filmmaker in Hollywood, but when you see a movie with an all black cast 90% of the time it's a Tyler Perry movie, and his movies suck. I certainly don't blame him for racism, and I don't think he has any sort of responsibility to make better films, but he does make terrible movies that are fun to make fun of because of their terribleness.

[wakefresh 689]

Shariq, I really appreciate your articulate thoughts on race, and it's a refreshing voice in this forum.

 

 

I mean, they're basically the equivalent of the American Pie franchise (up to something like 8 sequels right now) or possibly the Freedberg/Seltzer kinda stuff, right?

 

Its hard to compare to anything that is mainstream (read: white) because the context is so different. TheStray said it in another comment that right now, Perry is THE black director in Hollywood by virtue of their being no other representation. I think a part -- I don't know how big of a part, I can only speak for myself -- of the reason for the success of the movies is because there are so few images of black people at the movie theater that people are happy that we are being represented and come out in support. So, its sort of getting an audience that wouldn't have come otherwise. It would be like if the American Pie movies were the ONLY white movies getting made with a majority white cast and white leads. Then you would have a semblance of the same sort of dynamic that drives audiences to Perry movies.

[wakefresh 689]

I think it's slightly different, more robust than say American Pie or Frideberg/Seltzer because Perry regularly sells out gigantic venues for his live shows and has multiple shows on TBS. Maybe in a sense it's more akin to Kirk Cameron or Blue Collar Comedy.

 

But it's why I suggested someone like Charlie Murphy (or maybe another African American comedian who would be easier to get, although I think Charlie is a good sport and may be getable). It's easy to judge these movies and poke fun at them, it's difficult to examine the cultural divide in an entertaining manner.

 

They should totally get Cherly Underwood if they do Temptation. She is hilarious.

[thestray 361]

Exactly, Tyler Perry pretty much has a whole demographic primarily to himself, and he knows how to play to that demographic.

[wakefresh 689]

I don't think Tyler Perry's movies are Birdemic quality, but really, what is? I do think though that they're as shitty or worse as many other things that have been featured on the podcast. They're dumb movies, but so are lots of other mainstream films. I personally don't have a problem with the fact that Tyler Perry movies exist or that they're popular, because a lot of dumb things rise to the top, that's just how it works regardless of race.

 

What I do kinda have a problem with is there's Tyler Perry movies and pretty much not too much else for black audiences. There's no black Michel Gondry or black Wes Anderson or black Paul Thomas Anderson or black Judd Apatow or black JJ Abrams, and so on and so forth. I know Tyler Perry is not the only black filmmaker in Hollywood, but when you see a movie with an all black cast 90% of the time it's a Tyler Perry movie, and his movies suck. I certainly don't blame him for racism, and I don't think he has any sort of responsibility to make better films, but he does make terrible movies that are fun to make fun of because of their terribleness.

 

I'm not saying it wouldn't make a interesting episode, I was just commenting on Lee's statements. There was just something about it that rubbed me the wrong way. I hear a lot of bitterness in his voice and I believe it is because Perry did what Lee started out doing in the 80s but was 100x more successful than Lee. Spike still has to ask other people for money to make his movies, Perry went independent, stayed independent and now makes his own movies and TV shows. In an alternate reality, I would have loved to see what Lee would have done with Perry's financial power and deals. It would have been sweet.

 

And you're right, its lack of diverse representation that leads to situations where Lee is saying that Perry's TV shows are putting back Black America. Because, shit, if Perry is the only representation that we get then it better be everything to everyone and a shining example of What Black Folks Can Do. That's a lot of pressure to work under. Neal Brennan talked about it on his podcast where Dave Chappelle made a joke and then on CNN there was a 10 minute news story on how Dave Chappelle told black folks not to do X and how that is very dangerous. It's like, damn, can't even make a joke if you're a black person of a certain level of fame.

 

I only hope that if they do an ep on Temptation that they have a black guest or someone that knows black actors. Besides Paul, everyone else will be like, "that one did this and it was bonkers!"

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

I will say I do like to tell people that my favorite Tyler Perry movie is Star Trek.

I believe you meant to call it "Madea in Space".

[seanotron 2307]

I do think Spike has a bit of an upturned-nose when it comes to Tyler Perry, but that's why I originally said he was basically the Scorsese to Perry's Michael Bay. Spike is a legit lover and student of cinema, the history of it, the art of it. You can't look at any of his movies and say he lacks passion or vision, and it comes out naturally when he speaks. Perry just kind of points the camera at what he knows his audience wants and then moves on to the next shot. I guess you could say it's the old commercialism vs art divide. Maybe Perry is really the Adam Sandler in this debate? But Spike has actually been more even-handed in other interviews when discussing Perry. He's acknowledged his accomplishments as a businessman and someone who stays true to their own vision.

 

And while Perry has not made anything bonkers on the level of Tiptoes, he does have Women Issues™ that I think are worth exploring, and Temptation is a prime example of that. I mean, the movie ends with the protagonist being punished for her sins with AIDS, to the point that it physically hobbles her, and her husband leaves her to get a hotter, younger wife. I think if they did it they should 100% have a black guest, preferably a woman. Maybe have Retta back or get Aisha Tyler. Someone who can offer a black feminist perspective. But I think there's a lot to unpack there.

[RyanSz 3140]

Aisha Tyler would be a fantastic guest for this movie. Retta couldn't even get through Spice World and that movie was way more bonkers than this movie. Also, as far as the ending is concerned, I only read about it through wikipedia so I knew about the AIDS and being left alone. But is the audience unaware that the marriage counselor is the main character and the twist is that she is the character that she has been talking about?

[seanotron 2307]

Aisha Tyler would be a fantastic guest for this movie. Retta couldn't even get through Spice World and that movie was way more bonkers than this movie.

 

Retta is very funny, I just think she wasn't right for that episode. But I don't want to start SpiceGate all over again!

[RyanSz 3140]

Was the ending of the movie like I wrote Seanotron? Or did Perry give it away from the beginning?

[seanotron 2307]

Yes, the 'twist' is that the marriage counselor is telling her own story to her patient. What's really funny is they have an older actress portray the post-infection version of the character, while gray streaks suffice for the husband character. Because it's not enough that the character gets AIDS, she also has to be physically scarred, homely, and forced to buy her AIDS medication from her ex husband's pharmacy.

 

Subtlety, thy name is Tyler Perry.

[RyanSz 3140]

Wow that is horrible.

[wakefresh 689]

 

Retta is very funny, I just think she wasn't right for that episode. But I don't want to start SpiceGate all over again!

 

Please, let's not go through that again.

[PhillipMedoc 648]

get Aisha Tyler

Get Aisha Tyler on board for any movie, please. That woman is amazing. I thought she had already been on HDTGM but it appears my memory failed me. She brings it 120% to everything she does.

[wakefresh 689]

Yes, the 'twist' is that the marriage counselor is telling her own story to her patient. What's really funny is they have an older actress portray the post-infection version of the character, while gray streaks suffice for the husband character. Because it's not enough that the character gets AIDS, she also has to be physically scarred, homely, and forced to buy her AIDS medication from her ex husband's pharmacy.

 

Subtlety, thy name is Tyler Perry.

 

If he got Cicely Tyson to play the woman post-infection, I'm going to die laughing.