Episode 94.5 — Minisode 94.5

[DanEngler 5249]

(Also Also: I lived in Florida for 16 years and I can confirm that it is in fact THE worst.)

[kobthatreal 5896]

At least we don't have to deal with Meredith Grey muckin around and screwin things up. Too much drama! where in Florida did you live? We southern floridians hear all about the bigotry and overall backwoodsy-ness of northern and central FL but it rarely trickles down here.

 

 

The divide starts in Orlando, which Puerto Ricans for some reason have claimed, then we hit the nice Jewish conglomerate of west palm beach, followed by the any kind of every people in Broward/Miami. It's really pretty sweet here. I'm sure August Lindt would find it to be very nice. I mean, it's definitely more cultured than Seattle no offense lol. So it's not from lack of perspective that I was saying Shariq was overreacting. I think it's pretty clear to see the knee jerk response was on his behalf when he saw it was a Tyler Perry movie and assumed the worst. Not that it doesn't come from a real place, I don't doubt you authenticity Shariq! it just felt unwarranted.

[DanEngler 5249]

I was mostly in Naples, which is as much of an affluent right-wing echo chamber as man could hope to achieve without literal walls to keep undesirable elements out. The manufactured Swift Boat Scandal got a lot of play there, as no doubt did Benghazi. The two most popular pastimes in Naples are getting arrested for DUI and posting racist comments on Naples Daily News articles. Meanwhile, there is bonafide human trafficking and slave labor happening just outside the city to grow food for the rich people. They need a good Snowpiercering.

 

Also, Florida is a 95° swamp filled with mosquitos and old people driving on the wrong side of the road.

[KyleMain 22]

 

To be fair, let's not judge HDTGM based on the 1 and only episode that is so completely ruined by the "guest" to the point that it's utterly unlistenable. Between "Blackie" and "TAYLOR LAUTNER IS GAY, ALL OTHER POINTS ARE INVALID" I still haven't been able to sit through the entirety of that episode. So can we all agree to pretend it didn't happen? I swear I can't be the only one who doesn't even have it on their itunes. It was gross and as someone who re-listens to the entire HDGTM catalog at LEAST once every 3-6 months, I hate that theres a whole episode that I can't even stomach. Would ignoring it's existence entirely be considered "liberal whitewashing"? Haha.

 

And yeah, the idea of hoping for a black guess is pretty damn reasonable. Especially so if you yourself are black and are cringing at the idea of 4 white people laughing at the silly black people. But as usual Shariq takes it a bit too far - assuming that this is going to be a big racist clusterfuck isn't giving HDTGM enough credit, "Abduction" episode aside.

 

Also, a big point of contention for Shariq seems to simply be that the HDGTM hosts don't care enough about learning the names of black actors? Even though for this episode it seems like (from her own admission) a lot of these actors are in "The Perry Fold", so...why WOULD they know their names? And saying "My hope was that by having a black guest on, someone would point out the actual actor/actress name and maybe even be familiar with other movies they had done before or after"...oddly seems to assume that either only black people know black actors/actresses, or that all black people are so familiar with Tyler Perry that they could "help out", like a Perry IMDB.

 

(That's what it looks like when people make weird racial accusations from the OTHER side.)

 

Comedians trying to crack jokes. some hit some miss (Chaffin missed)

 

I can't believe how much some of you are looking into this. Must be nice having so much free time/ so few better things to do

[Lando 2019]

I think that a couple of the big problems with the discussions of this nature are that a) they are by nature hard to measure since it is an internal attitude that someone may or may not be willing to admit and we all to often rely on anecdotes when these are really statistical issues.

Maybe hypothetically they refer to a black supporting cast member by nickname only 80% of the time, but only 30% of the time for a white supporting cast member, maybe they're both 50% I don't know and really nobody here has taken the time to listen to each episode carefully and quantify how they refer to supporting cast members by race. All we have are specific incidents where they have done one or the other. In my opinion it makes it really hard to have a meaningful discussion about discrimination when all you have are examples and counterexamples.

[KyleMain 22]

So, you guys support the troops?

 

 

figured the earwolf forums would be the best place for this discussion too...anything else we can talk about to suck the rest of the fun out of this thread?

 

not like this is a podcast hosted by improv comics or anything...

[DanEngler 5249]

PROTIP: If you aren't interested in participating in a conversation, the correct course of action is not to complain about people having the conversation.

[KyleMain 22]

PROTIP: If you aren't interested in participating in a conversation, the correct course of action is not to complain about people having the conversation.

 

Am i ok stating my opinion that this discussion seems like it belongs somewhere else?

[Entering the Bone Zone 81]

 

At the same time, I can't think of a weirder set of responses for people to have to each other than these characters did. Harley is clearly a sociopath/psychopath and is completely inappropriate toward Judith from minute one. I snorted so hard when he said "Are you getting turned on right now?" that I almost had an aneurysm.

 

 

Samesies. Her "attraction" to Harley was based on little more than him repeatedly telling her how hot he thought she was, and how because of her hotness he would put her on a pedestal. Then she would say she was married and he would basically say he didn't give a shit. And the attraction was conveyed with blank stares and FULL BEATS between every line of dialogue. Why were all the scenes so long? At one point I literally (h/t Zouks) got up to take a deuce when Judith and Harley were staying at work late, returned a few minutes later, and found that the conversation was STILL HAPPENING.

[wakefresh 689]

I haven't listened to the episode since its debut, but I came out feeling so gross that I probably overstated my case re: the batting of eyes. I don't think Paul, Jason, or June are bad people, and I understand that hosts tread a thin line when it comes to policing the language that guests use. That said, it still grates on me when a rapper drops a "no homo" on Get Up On This and it goes unremarked. (Conversely, it was incredible to hear the Sklars call Terrell Owens out on his "homosexuality is a choice" bullshit a few months back.)

 

I don't presume to speak for Shariq but, since I read virtually every post on the forums, I will say this: His opinions are often based on observations of trends in the media and the world at large, and many of his civil attempts at discussing these issues are met with knee-jerk denials that they even exist. Imagine this sort of interaction compounded on an hourly basis and you might begin to understand his frustration.

 

I like Shariq. Yes, he sometimes goes overboard with the hyperbole but, as with HDTGM, I think the Earwolf forums benefit from his perspective and the perspective of anyone else who doesn't meet the standard 18-34 Straight White Middle-Class Male demographic that dominates podcasting. Under the mighty Shannon's guidance, we try to maintain a welcoming community here and, compared to relentless fuckstorms like Reddit, I think we do pretty well.

 

(Also: If the strongest opinion you hear about the black experience every day comes from Shariq, you're leading a pretty insular life.)

 

 

Thanks, Dan for having my back and making sure the conversation keeps going and is not derailed beyond comprehension. I appreciate ya.

 

[wakefresh 689]

 

Also, a big point of contention for Shariq seems to simply be that the HDGTM hosts don't care enough about learning the names of black actors? Even though for this episode it seems like (from her own admission) a lot of these actors are in "The Perry Fold", so...why WOULD they know their names? And saying "My hope was that by having a black guest on, someone would point out the actual actor/actress name and maybe even be familiar with other movies they had done before or after"...oddly seems to assume that either only black people know black actors/actresses, or that all black people are so familiar with Tyler Perry that they could "help out", like a Perry IMDB.

 

(That's what it looks like when people make weird racial accusations from the OTHER side.)

 

 

So you're kinda talking out of both sides of your mouth with that statement. You firmly believe that there is no reason for any of the gang to know anything about these actors/actresses. Just because they are in a Perry movie doesn't mean that they do nothing else at all in Hollywood. It's not like they are some sort of movie limbo where they ONLY work for Perry. Shemar Moore was in a Perry movie and he is/was also on Criminal Minds on CBS. By your logic, because he was in the Perry movie, there is absolutely no way the gang would know him from the long-running CBS show. But that's patently not true. Actors are in multiple projects. Just because Sam Jackson is in alot of Taratino movies doesn't mean that he ONLY works with Taratino.

 

But at the same time, you say its weird that I would assume a black guest would be more familiar with the actors than the gang would. But you just told me that there isn't really a good reason why any of them would know any of the actors in the first place because they were in a Perry movie. Why is it an odd assumption that a black person would have some passing knowledge of the players in a movie marketed toward them? It's like if the gang was doing a Bollywood movie and you were upset because someone assumed that a Indian national would have some passing knowledge of Ahmed Khan.

 

And even Paul at one time admitted that just calling the two black actors "the black guy" and "black guy number 2" in the Dungeon Siege ep was reductionist. So, I give him some credit for that, but he didn't take the next step and look at his computer to see the IMDB for their names.

[wakefresh 689]

I haven't listened to the episode since its debut, but I came out feeling so gross that I probably overstated my case re: the batting of eyes. I don't think Paul, Jason, or June are bad people, and I understand that hosts tread a thin line when it comes to policing the language that guests use. That said, it still grates on me when a rapper drops a "no homo" on Get Up On This and it goes unremarked. (Conversely, it was incredible to hear the Sklars call Terrell Owens out on his "homosexuality is a choice" bullshit a few months back.)

 

I don't presume to speak for Shariq but, since I read virtually every post on the forums, I will say this: His opinions are often based on observations of trends in the media and the world at large, and many of his civil attempts at discussing these issues are met with knee-jerk denials that they even exist. Imagine this sort of interaction compounded on an hourly basis and you might begin to understand his frustration.

 

I like Shariq. Yes, he sometimes goes overboard with the hyperbole but, as with HDTGM, I think the Earwolf forums benefit from his perspective and the perspective of anyone else who doesn't meet the standard 18-34 Straight White Middle-Class Male demographic that dominates podcasting. Under the mighty Shannon's guidance, we try to maintain a welcoming community here and, compared to relentless fuckstorms like Reddit, I think we do pretty well.

 

(Also: If the strongest opinion you hear about the black experience every day comes from Shariq, you're leading a pretty insular life.)

 

I listened to that ep and it was good to hear them push back on that. And it wasn't just a passing comment. It was like a good chunk of the interview.

[wakefresh 689]

At least we don't have to deal with Meredith Grey muckin around and screwin things up. Too much drama! where in Florida did you live? We southern floridians hear all about the bigotry and overall backwoodsy-ness of northern and central FL but it rarely trickles down here.

 

 

The divide starts in Orlando, which Puerto Ricans for some reason have claimed, then we hit the nice Jewish conglomerate of west palm beach, followed by the any kind of every people in Broward/Miami. It's really pretty sweet here. I'm sure August Lindt would find it to be very nice. I mean, it's definitely more cultured than Seattle no offense lol. So it's not from lack of perspective that I was saying Shariq was overreacting. I think it's pretty clear to see the knee jerk response was on his behalf when he saw it was a Tyler Perry movie and assumed the worst. Not that it doesn't come from a real place, I don't doubt you authenticity Shariq! it just felt unwarranted.

 

I believe that there will never be a circumstance for you where you think the claims of a POC are "warranted". Like when you gave a harsh resounding negative to the term "Blackie", but then immediately stated all of the circumstances where calling a black kid "Blackie" would be seen as tolerable. I mean, when you write things like that, there isn't really anything that you won't rationalize away.

[KyleMain 22]

Really hope Aukerman ends up being the guest. We could really use his insight on this one.

 

It was real hard for me to get through but I can be pretty impatient so maybe this flick wasn't as rough for everyone else to sit through.

[wakefresh 689]

I think that a couple of the big problems with the discussions of this nature are that a) they are by nature hard to measure since it is an internal attitude that someone may or may not be willing to admit and we all to often rely on anecdotes when these are really statistical issues.

Maybe hypothetically they refer to a black supporting cast member by nickname only 80% of the time, but only 30% of the time for a white supporting cast member, maybe they're both 50% I don't know and really nobody here has taken the time to listen to each episode carefully and quantify how they refer to supporting cast members by race. All we have are specific incidents where they have done one or the other. In my opinion it makes it really hard to have a meaningful discussion about discrimination when all you have are examples and counterexamples.

 

It's not really the nickname part though. It's the actor's/actress' real name. Like all of the nicknamed people, they say their real name at some point in the podcast. The nicknames are funny. So, there was this time when they were doing one of the Leelee Sobieski movies and Paul called her "bobo Helen Hunt". Then Jason called her "baby Helen Hunt" and they settled on that. After the description of what happened in the movie, Paul says her real name.

 

I'm gonna listen to this ep, because I do hope they do it well. The last couple have not been so great. I just hope that its not a whole bunch of "the one who..." and no actor's real name is said at all...aside from Kim Kardashian and Brandy.

[cgrove13 6]

 

Am i ok stating my opinion that this discussion seems like it belongs somewhere else?

 

Something I am just starting to learn is that, because I'm white, I have the option of deciding that conversations about race (or gender, or sexual orientation) would be better if they happened somewhere else.

 

For everybody else, those conversations are happening all the time, because they can't decide to ignore that one comment they host made, or the fact that nobody who looks like them is a guest on a show they like, because it isn't an abstract discussion--it's personal.

 

I can say--"I don't feel like thinking about this right now." The rest of the world isn't given that choice.

[DanEngler 5249]

I just hope that its not a whole bunch of "the one who..." and no actor's real name is said at all...aside from Kim Kardashian and Brandy.

But if they do, I hope it's "The One Who Killed Somebody with Her Car" and "The One Famous for Banging The First One's Brother".

[justinmh05 1968]

 

 

It's not really the nickname part though. It's the actor's/actress' real name. Like all of the nicknamed people, they say their real name at some point in the podcast. The nicknames are funny. So, there was this time when they were doing one of the Leelee Sobieski movies and Paul called her "bobo Helen Hunt". Then Jason called her "baby Helen Hunt" and they settled on that. After the description of what happened in the movie, Paul says her real name.

 

I'm gonna listen to this ep, because I do hope they do it well. The last couple have not been so great. I just hope that its not a whole bunch of "the one who..." and no actor's real name is said at all...aside from Kim Kardashian and Brandy.

 

I agree with your larger point, but I take issue with your last para. Granted, the Glitter episode was not one of the better episodes to say the least, but the Staying Alive episode was the best fucking episode of this podcast ever!

[KyleMain 22]

Yeah this movie is such a bummer I really cannot watch it again. I'm sure the gang will be able to find some humor in there somewhere?

 

man i really hope so lol. This was way more grim than i expected it to be.

[KyleMain 22]

Something I am just starting to learn is that, because I'm white, I have the option of deciding that conversations about race (or gender, or sexual orientation) would be better if they happened somewhere else.

 

For everybody else, those conversations are happening all the time, because they can't decide to ignore that one comment they host made, or the fact that nobody who looks like them is a guest on a show they like, because it isn't an abstract discussion--it's personal.

 

I can say--"I don't feel like thinking about this right now." The rest of the world isn't given that choice.

 

Did ya like the movie? can't wait for the podcast, friend!

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

 

Shemar Moore was in a Perry movie and he is/was also on Criminal Minds on CBS.

 

 

 

Shariq, I have an honest question about this (actual about a different post, but it was easier to quote this one) and I am in no way trying to be disrespectful. But you mentioned the secretary in Devil's Advocate being on CSI for 16 years and them not knowing who she was and them referring to her as "the one who looks like she should be in a yogurt commercial." For me, I have never watched a single episode of CSI, nor Criminal Minds. To me, calling her "yogurt commercial girl" puts an image in my head that calling her by her name never would. In fact, I have listened to that episode a couple of times and as far as I can recall they never referred to her race at all. I also don't remember Devil's Advocate the movie, but if she is referred to as the secretary I can't imagine her role in the movie was that crucial to the plot. In my mind, they have maybe an hour and a half to give the plot of a movie and make fun of it. Asking them to give the IMDb highlights of every minor character, regardless of race, would just open a rabbit hole of insanity.

 

(I have also lived in Florida for many years, there are good places and bad places. The most recent Cracked podcast discusses some of the reasons why Florida is no crazier than any and all other states.)

 

[kobthatreal 5896]

Shariq! I'm sorry I unnecessarily escalated the discussion. I half read the comments without looking into the source of your claims. Once I realized it was the Abduction episode I started it up and immediately remembered it was one of the few episodes I disliked and never finished due to Jessica Chaffens comments. I Guess her Ronna and Bev character isn't too far from the truth. I wouldn't try to rationalize what she was saying. But from Paul, June, and Jason, maybe I'm blinded by my love for their comedy, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt when they describe a minority character as such. I know they are far from the utmost authority on the subject, but I do trust that what they say is more of a jab at the writers and director for using minority characters as walking stereotypical grabs at minority viewers, rather then a sign of disrespect towards those actors and their ethnicity.

 

I'm a white guy, with black family. I know I don't carry it with me like other minorities do. I still get the occasional guy at the bar saying some racist shit to me and he thinks I'm gonna agree with him just cause I'm white. I like to think I know the difference between when some one is being offensive to a group purposefully, and when they are attacking the idea that people can be defined by the stereotypes attributed to them by bad writing. But I haven't spent one day of my life as a black person so although I wrongfully criticized you earlier, without speaking up I wouldn't have this moment of reflection.

[KyleMain 22]

Loved the run-in with the cyclist lol the music was so damn intense, while the cyclist on the other hand was so non threatening haha.

 

Also, the Room-esque shoulder jostling was super enjoyable. I really wish he had yelled Im fed up with this world and stormed off but ill take what humor i can get from a movie like this.

[kobthatreal 5896]

The cyclist is my favorite part. I guess it goes to show that Brice won't stand up to 3 catcalling asshole dudes in the middle of the night in NYC(this movie is in nyc right?) but Harley will kill any single clearly scared guy on a bicycle in broad day at a park.

[wakefresh 689]

 

Shariq, I have an honest question about this (actual about a different post, but it was easier to quote this one) and I am in no way trying to be disrespectful. But you mentioned the secretary in Devil's Advocate being on CSI for 16 years and them not knowing who she was and them referring to her as "the one who looks like she should be in a yogurt commercial." For me, I have never watched a single episode of CSI, nor Criminal Minds. To me, calling her "yogurt commercial girl" puts an image in my head that calling her by her name never would. In fact, I have listened to that episode a couple of times and as far as I can recall they never referred to her race at all. I also don't remember Devil's Advocate the movie, but if she is referred to as the secretary I can't imagine her role in the movie was that crucial to the plot. In my mind, they have maybe an hour and a half to give the plot of a movie and make fun of it. Asking them to give the IMDb highlights of every minor character, regardless of race, would just open a rabbit hole of insanity.

 

(I have also lived in Florida for many years, there are good places and bad places. The most recent Cracked podcast discusses some of the reasons why Florida is no crazier than any and all other states.)

 

 

So that's one of my favorite eps because I loved that movie when I was younger. Everything about that ep is good except for that exchange. Tamara Tunie plays the wife of one of the lawyers at Satan and Associates. There is a scene where she's changing her shirt and then demon boobies come out. When they were describing this scene they were just like "the one who..." And June was like, "No, she's a regular on Law and Order" and they were like, "naw, she's the one from the yogurt commercials." First, I doubt that she has done a yogurt commercial; they were saying that has a joke because of her hair. Basically saying she looks like she belongs on a yogurt commercial.

 

Secondly, she's been on TV for the better part of two decades. I don't watch NCIS Los Angeles, but I know LL Cool J and Chris O'Donnell are on it. Plus, she's on Law and Order SVU, aka the most re-run-ed TV show in the history of TV. So, even if this yogurt commercial is real, it makes more sense to mention the 15+ seasons of TV that she's done than the short-run yogurt commercial.

 

Now, the secretary was this character actress who didn't have a big role in the movie. She basically gives Keanu the cases and she shows a demon face that causes Charlize to kill herself. But she's this actress that they point out by her real name. They describe her entering the movie and they all say her name.She's not a big star and whatever her claim to fame it is not on right now, like SVU.

 

As far as them naming the players, I happen to like that because I do quick searches to see what else they have been in, or to get a picture of their face (I don't watch all of the movies before hand). And it's not like its hard work. Paul already has the IMDB page for the movie open to give the extra production notes during the show. Plus, they have already seen the movie, so they know these people's faces. It's just scrolling.