Episode 94.5 — Minisode 94.5

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

 

But isn't that exactly Shariq's point? If a person of color isn't already famous (although calling Da Brat famous is being rather generous on my part), we don't bother to identify them in a meaningful way.

 

I should acknowledge that Casey Wilson's decision to refer to the friend as "the other one" is most likely the consequence of a terrible storyline and absent character development, rather than any underlying prejudice (much in the same way that all the dudes in LOL are known as Shit Dick. Not because we are biased against young white males, but because those characters are interchangeable and worthless -- please refer to the massive LOL thread for more on this essential matter). Nonetheless I still felt icky when I heard "the other one" over and over.

 

And I know I'm going to get reamed for making a fuss about this. I'm well aware that an online forum for a podcast about bad films isn't the ideal place for a discussion about language and race. And I know everybody's got social justice fatigue. HDTGM isn't YITR (though Andrew Ti would be such an awesome guest!). But similar issues do come up on this show (for example, think about all the times that the gang or a guest has pointed out the problematic portrayals of minorities in so many of the films they cover). And thus I think it's reasonable to discuss such issues on the forums.

Yeah, I was going more for the "She was so unmemorable as a character that I can't bother to remember anything about her other than she was the other friend" thing. I don't even remember what ethnicity she was, because I think I already have her confused with other "other ones" in movies I've watched since re-watching "Glitter" a couple of weeks ago.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Yeah, I was going more for the "She was so unmemorable as a character that I can't bother to remember anything about her other than she was the other friend" thing. I don't even remember what ethnicity she was, because I think I already have her confused with other "other ones" in movies I've watched since re-watching "Glitter" a couple of weeks ago.

 

100% agree with you. I took "the other one" the same way. Her character was only in the movie to be a prop for Mariah's character. She was just a friend for the sole purpose of being lost and show the audience how Mariah's character was losing her way. I did not feel that calling her "the other one" was a slam or slight against her ethnicity at all. If anything it was a slam against the writer. Kind of like, "Why should I look up this character on IMDb, when you don't make her a character worth looking up."

 

I said this in a previous post, but--unless I am missing something--Temptation does not have anything to do with race, so I do not see how the podcast will be racially insensitive. They have no reason even to bring it up. At no point does a character in the movie say anything like, "Being a black man in America..." or anything like that. It is the one thing I probably do like about the movie. Even at its worst, it is about people, their race is inconsequential to the story. Even the old white lady at the pharmacy isn't racist, just homophobic. Which isn't better of course, but I hope you get my meaning.

 

I guess I am saying, I don't think they should avoid talking about a crazy, fucked up movie, with TONS of horrible things happening, just because the cast is primarily Black.

 

If anyone cares, I see Harley as "Sexy Satan," Brice as "Nerdy Jesus," and Judith as "the Incompetent Counselor."

[wakefresh 689]

 

100% agree with you. I took "the other one" the same way. Her character was only in the movie to be a prop for Mariah's character. She was just a friend for the sole purpose of being lost and show the audience how Mariah's character was losing her way. I did not feel that calling her "the other one" was a slam or slight against her ethnicity at all. If anything it was a slam against the writer. Kind of like, "Why should I look up this character on IMDb, when you don't make her a character worth looking up."

 

I said this in a previous post, but--unless I am missing something--Temptation does not have anything to do with race, so I do not see how the podcast will be racially insensitive. They have no reason even to bring it up. At no point does a character in the movie say anything like, "Being a black man in America..." or anything like that. It is the one thing I probably do like about the movie. Even at its worst, it is about people, their race is inconsequential to the story. Even the old white lady at the pharmacy isn't racist, just homophobic. Which isn't better of course, but I hope you get my meaning.

 

I guess I am saying, I don't think they should avoid talking about a crazy, fucked up movie, with TONS of horrible things happening, just because the cast is primarily Black.

 

If anyone cares, I see Harley as "Sexy Satan," Brice as "Nerdy Jesus," and Judith as "the Incompetent Counselor."

 

They can talk about any movie they feel like. But consistently, they do not remember or even look up the names of black actors in the movies they skewer, even ones who have been in plenty of TV shows and movies. I just don't think its going to be funny because you'll never be sure which "that one" they are talking about, its like a bunch of 2008-era John McCain's when they talk about black actors.

 

So, there is another podcast that makes fun of movies and they look up the actor's/actress' name, and because the hosts look at a shitload of movies, they make jokes referencing other movies the actors have been in. They do this for black and white actors, so its pretty funny.

 

I think someone before mentioned racially insensitive and it comes from the fact that you'll have four white people making fun of a movie that wasn't really marketed to them. In the same vein where they brought on a comic book writer to make fun of the Daredevil movie, Kickpuncher made a point that they could do the same with this movie -- bring in someone black to give another perspective. They would have different jokes to make about the movie that wouldn't come from the rest of regular gang and atleast you would have someone who knows the names of the players in the movie.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

They can talk about any movie they feel like. But consistently, they do not remember or even look up the names of black actors in the movies they skewer, even ones who have been in plenty of TV shows and movies. I just don't think its going to be funny because you'll never be sure which "that one" they are talking about, its like a bunch of 2008-era John McCain's when they talk about black actors.

 

So, there is another podcast that makes fun of movies and they look up the actor's/actress' name, and because the hosts look at a shitload of movies, they make jokes referencing other movies the actors have been in. They do this for black and white actors, so its pretty funny.

 

I think someone before mentioned racially insensitive and it comes from the fact that you'll have four white people making fun of a movie that wasn't really marketed to them. In the same vein where they brought on a comic book writer to make fun of the Daredevil movie, Kickpuncher made a point that they could do the same with this movie -- bring in someone black to give another perspective. They would have different jokes to make about the movie that wouldn't come from the rest of regular gang and atleast you would have someone who knows the names of the players in the movie.

 

I respect all of what you have to say, and maybe they will have a black guest tomorrow. I do understand your trepidation, but I guess I am more "wait and see." For all I know, they could really bomb.

 

I honestly never noticed they did not know the names of black actors over white actors. I just always laugh at whatever bullshit name they give them (e.g. Not-quite Tom Skerritt).

[denimgremlin 1179]

I honestly never noticed they did not know the names of black actors over white actors. I just always laugh at whatever bullshit name they give them (e.g. Not-quite Tom Skerritt).

 

that's because that's just not true. they always give actors and character's random names or not remember their name at all as you pointed out with "not tom skerritt" as well as tons of others in every single movie they do. hubcap and turkey sub, baby helen hunt, etc. etc. etc. if i list every one i'll be here all day.

[Lando 2019]

Ok, part of me hopes that they get Patti Stanger to guest on this one.

[Lando 2019]

 

100% agree with you. I took "the other one" the same way. Her character was only in the movie to be a prop for Mariah's character. She was just a friend for the sole purpose of being lost and show the audience how Mariah's character was losing her way. I did not feel that calling her "the other one" was a slam or slight against her ethnicity at all. If anything it was a slam against the writer. Kind of like, "Why should I look up this character on IMDb, when you don't make her a character worth looking up."

 

I said this in a previous post, but--unless I am missing something--Temptation does not have anything to do with race, so I do not see how the podcast will be racially insensitive. They have no reason even to bring it up. At no point does a character in the movie say anything like, "Being a black man in America..." or anything like that. It is the one thing I probably do like about the movie. Even at its worst, it is about people, their race is inconsequential to the story. Even the old white lady at the pharmacy isn't racist, just homophobic. Which isn't better of course, but I hope you get my meaning.

 

I guess I am saying, I don't think they should avoid talking about a crazy, fucked up movie, with TONS of horrible things happening, just because the cast is primarily Black.

 

If anyone cares, I see Harley as "Sexy Satan," Brice as "Nerdy Jesus," and Judith as "the Incompetent Counselor."

 

While Temptation isn't about race, there is a huge racial divide in the appeal of Tyler Perry movies. Most of the time there is a pretty broad distaste (at least by adults) for the movies they choose.

[Kickpuncher 5012]

Kickpuncher made a point that they could do the same with this movie -- bring in someone black to give another perspective.

 

FWIW, I can't take credit for saying that, but I do agree with it.

[wakefresh 689]

 

that's because that's just not true. they always give actors and character's random names or not remember their name at all as you pointed out with "not tom skerritt" as well as tons of others in every single movie they do. hubcap and turkey sub, baby helen hunt, etc. etc. etc. if i list every one i'll be here all day.

 

No, it is true. They said "not Tom Skerritt's" name before giving him is bad-movie nickname. They say "hubcap" and "turkey sub's" name before they give them their bad movie nickname. Compare that to the Dungeon Seige ep where the only characters they don't name are the masked goblin extras and the only two black actors.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Shariq Torres

[Lando 2019]

Part of me does wonder if it would be a little more difficult to get an African American comedian to guest on this episode just because they might be worried that it would hurt their chances of being in a Tyler Perry produced movie in the future. I mean, even if he makes arguably bad movies there is no denying that he's got a lot of power to get stuff made. Not to say that they shouldn't try their hardest to get an African American guest, but I would understand why many would be hesitant.

[DanEngler 5249]

I'm sure it was recorded days or weeks ago, but Baron Vaughn would be a great guest for this episode. His recent run on YITR was excellent, and he doesn't seem inclined to pull any punches.

[kobthatreal 5896]

This particular forum is so PC that yall are calling the hosts racist because you're thinking of all the ways they could come off racist just cause it's a Tyler Perry movie lol. I think you are all failing to understand that they watch and talk about SHIT movies with SHIT characters who don't deserve to be referred to by their character names, unless they are Chev Chelios or Hulkster. Take off ur judgmental pants and put on ur "oh this movie was awful, let's enjoy the roasting of it" pants. I mean, this movie is racist as fuck, and you're worried about characters not being treated with respect? Oh boy.

[BrisketNation 0]

Maybe recruit the Tyler Perry fans that gave this movie a 1 star review on Amazon? I would say I hope they get 2 guests, I feel they need a woman's take just as much as an African American's with the degree of misogyny in this film.

[Lando 2019]

This particular forum is so PC that yall are calling the hosts racist because you're thinking of all the ways they could come off racist just cause it's a Tyler Perry movie lol. I think you are all failing to understand that they watch and talk about SHIT movies with SHIT characters who don't deserve to be referred to by their character names, unless they are Chev Chelios or Hulkster. Take off ur judgmental pants and put on ur "oh this movie was awful, let's enjoy the roasting of it" pants. I mean, this movie is racist as fuck, and you're worried about characters not being treated with respect? Oh boy.

 

Some of the best episodes of the show have been when they've not just made fun of a movie, but broken it down, ie Punisher, Superman III or The Room or when they've not agreed like with The Odd Life of Timothy Green.

[kobthatreal 5896]

I agree. But we all know that is 100% not the case for this movie. And CameronH said what I was trying to say but in a nicer less of a dick way, while being more concise. So I'll just screw off lol

[wakefresh 689]

This particular forum is so PC that yall are calling the hosts racist because you're thinking of all the ways they could come off racist just cause it's a Tyler Perry movie lol. I think you are all failing to understand that they watch and talk about SHIT movies with SHIT characters who don't deserve to be referred to by their character names, unless they are Chev Chelios or Hulkster. Take off ur judgmental pants and put on ur "oh this movie was awful, let's enjoy the roasting of it" pants. I mean, this movie is racist as fuck, and you're worried about characters not being treated with respect? Oh boy.

 

I half expected a "libtard" and "Nobama" to be thrown in your rant. And yeah, it figures....Florida.

[Jesse Carrigan 119]

I don't even know how to say how I feel about having watched this. Maybe the best word is conflicted.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here with a small positive. This is the first Tyler Perry movie that I've ever seen, and it was pretty much what I expected. There were a number of small comedy bits that I thought landed reasonably well - I laughed a few times. ("I'm taking you to the $5.99 buffet" was a favorite.)

 

Mostly, it was a bad combination of boring and offensive. The bummer to me is that (how do I say this) I don't have a problem with some of the kernel of the movie, that a big part of marriage is sticking it out through the lean times and not letting yourself get sucked in by every set of hot abs that goes by. I felt like there was something kind of true about these characters letting their marriage get away from them, taking each other for granted, making poor choices, suffering heartbreak, and finding a kind of closure. In different hands, I feel like there's an idea here that could work.

 

At the same time, I can't think of a weirder set of responses for people to have to each other than these characters did. Harley is clearly a sociopath/psychopath and is completely inappropriate toward Judith from minute one. I snorted so hard when he said "Are you getting turned on right now?" that I almost had an aneurysm.

 

Brice had what I would consider to be maybe the most bizarre line when Judith was slapping him in the kitchen to initiate sex (the part where he said, "this is weird" was the least weird part, followed by the weirdest part) which was "if you want to go in the bedroom and do this the RIGHT WAY, we can do that." What? I can understand being weirded out by the sudden violence, but if my wife kissed me like that in the kitchen my pants would be halfway off before any of that started anyway. (Too much?) But "the right way"?? Just...strange.

 

The gay jokes were very uncomfortable. The older women were bizarre. The heavy-handed moralizing and ultimate shaming of Judith felt really icky. I feel (and hope) that it's possible to have a position that the numerous challenges of marriage are worth working through without demonizing people whose marriages don't work out.

[wakefresh 689]

Part of me does wonder if it would be a little more difficult to get an African American comedian to guest on this episode just because they might be worried that it would hurt their chances of being in a Tyler Perry produced movie in the future. I mean, even if he makes arguably bad movies there is no denying that he's got a lot of power to get stuff made. Not to say that they shouldn't try their hardest to get an African American guest, but I would understand why many would be hesitant.

 

Ya know, I never thought about it from that perspective. A paycheck is a paycheck and if there aren't really any movies in Hollywood written for black actors/actresses, then yeah, it would be shooting yourself in the foot to go on record bashing one of the few acting opportunities you did have.

 

It's probably why the gang has never done any Adam Sandler movies -- and he puts out some bombs (Grown Ups 2, anyone?) -- because they want to have the opportunity for a paycheck, he comes a calling.

 

But I feel that there are some performers who are never gonna really be in the running for a Tyler Perry movie role because what they do is so far from what he does. Hannibal Buress comes to mind. As does Ron Funches. I also don't think Taneisha Long or Nicole Byer would really care about burning that bridge.

[Jesse Carrigan 119]

I feel like there was a period of time where there were majority black casts in a number of movies that had pretty big cultural cachet. (Thinking of Spike Lee's work, Waiting to Exhale, How Stella Got Her Groove Back, etc.) I didn't grow up in anything that would be considered a diverse environment, but I was familiar with those films. For some reason that kind of cast just doesn't seem to exist anymore except in Tyler Perry films.

[Cameron H. 23786]

...but if my wife kissed me like that in the kitchen my pants would be halfway off before any of that started anyway. (Too much?)

 

On the contrary, please, go on....

 

Also, doesn't he offer her a sandwich in lieu of hot, kitchen sex? It's been a week since I watched it so I may be wrong...

[Kickpuncher 5012]

But I feel that there are some performers who are never gonna really be in the running for a Tyler Perry movie role because what they do is so far from what he does. Hannibal Buress comes to mind. As does Ron Funches. I also don't think Taneisha Long or Nicole Byer would really care about burning that bridge.

 

Yeah, it's a reasonable concern, but it feels like there's a pretty wide gap between performers who would appear on HDTGM and those who would ever be in Tyler Perry movies. Among semi-frequent Earwolf guests, the first two that occurred to me would be Brandon Johnson and Jerrod Carmichael (convenient timing there), and they're both less "alternative" than Funches or Buress. And now that you've put the idea in my head, I really, really want it to be Ron Funches.

[Jesse Carrigan 119]

Time for some serious talk. I should credit Ta-Nahesi Coates at The Atlantic for helping me come to this conclusion, but I think there's an important distinction between racism and prejudice. Racism is the system of oppressing, differentiating, and dividing people based on race that has been a part of American culture since the inception of the republic. The most obvious example is of course American slavery, but the system continued long after the 13th Amendment was ratified in the Jim Crow laws of the south and the Chicago Housing Authority's discriminatory policies, among others. We've addressed a lot of those kinds of legal issues, which is a good start, but the less obvious effect of racism is in the erroneous patterns of belief or ignorance that become part of the framework of how people think about (or perhaps, don't think about) other people of a particular color. Prejudice, by contrast, is the kind of irrational fear and hatred that we think about with the Ku Klux Klan, Neo-Nazis, and less extreme things like not wanting people with different skin colors to marry. Clearly these things are related and woven together, but are subtly distinct. One of the problems of eliminating racism is that no one wants to be labeled a racist, so we can't even bring up the ways that we may be personally prejudiced which in the aggregate lead to racism. Thus, those things get pushed down, become empowered by avoiding the light of exposure to better ideas, and perpetuate the cycle. Ultimately, my belief is that colloquially, we're all a little racist, because our culture is so infected and affected by racism. If we could be more open and honest about that, and confront and defeat the ways that we are individually part of the problem, I think we'd get farther along the road of eliminating the systemic issue. I may be wrong about that, but the status quo certainly isn't working.

 

/serious

 

Personally, I think Lance Gross (Brice) is way hotter than Robbie Jones (Harley), but I'm a straight dude, so what do I know.

[Jesse Carrigan 119]

 

On the contrary, please, go on....

 

Also, doesn't he offer her a sandwich in lieu of hot, kitchen sex? It's been a week since I watched it so I may be wrong...

 

Oh my God, you're right. I forgot about that.

 

I mean, these two people have no idea how to communicate their needs and desires to each other. I feel like I'm taking this way too seriously, but they have some real communication issues that contribute to what happens in the rest of the movie. It's also so contrived. I feel like the conversation would have been more tentative. Like:

 

SCENE

 

The bedroom. Brice and Judith are brushing their teeth, getting ready for bed.

 

Judith: Baby?

Brice (mumbles through toothpaste): Yrs?

Judith: You ever just want to... (trails off)

Brice: Mmmm?

Judith: Nevermind, it's fine.

Brice (spits out toothpaste): No, what is it?

Judith: Do you ever just want to do it somewhere different?

Brice: Like...where?

Judith: Like the kitchen.

Brice: ...

Judith: Just, hot, kinda like...animals, you know?

Brice: We make food in there.

Judith: Nah, you're right.

Brice: It's kind of weird.

Judith: I guess.

Brice: I mean...if you really want to...

Judith: No, no, it's stupid. Forget it.

Brice: ...ok...

 

Both awkwardly climb into bed.

 

END SCENE

 

I'm no screenwriter, and that probably sucks, but it seems more true to the characters to me. Why would she just attack him? I guess the implication is that she's so fired up by Harley that she's an insatiable sexual banshee, which is a whole other set of problems.

[kobthatreal 5896]

Hey Shariq where I live doesn't define me, so don't stereotype! and at least I didn't use words like butthurt and lamewangs like I usually do. You didn't really respond to the metaphorical bombs I dropped on ur noggin so I guess you admit defeat. When I listen to pcasts like Desus vs Mero I don't get pre-angry whenever a white person has laid a proverbial turd and I know they are gonna tag on them and call it like it is. when something is garbage you can call it garbage as the hosts (mostly Jason) are fond of. Nothing is off limits in the HDTGM Thunder dome. I know it may come off as racially insensitive to use shorthands for minority characters but they do that for so many characters to imply its racially charged is silly, especially  since the podcast isn't even out yet. So you brought that baggage into the forum! I'm not trying to argue, I'm saying this discussion is so asinine because it's all over presumptive issues! You must trust the hosts to be smarter than that?

[DanEngler 5249]

I'm not trying to argue, I'm saying this discussion is so asinine because it's all over presumptive issues! You must trust the hosts to be smarter than that?

You realize you're saying this about a show where one of the guests referred to a black actor as "Blackie" for the duration of an episode and no one seemed to bat an eye, right? Suggesting that they get a black perspective on a controversial movie made by a black filmmaker with a primarily black cast marketed to a primarily black audience is pretty far from "so PC", bro.